stevieg
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Posts posted by stevieg
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Steve getting a little tired of this rubbish but ask yourself why has all these scallopers suddenly appeared off whitby and scarborough and left there own fishing grounds there has never been so many scallop boats here and one sat in harbour yesterday had 15 dredges aside now thats catching power.
You digress as always Paul, avoiding the question like the plague.....again
Sensible fishers head for the best fishing, it is the ways of the world, has been since Jesus was a boy. Why do WY boats fish all over the UK and Norwegian waters.....it's what they do and always have done, seek the most profitable fishing, that is why boats generally have licences to fish all over rather than their own area.
There are a few other regulatory reasons why many of them are currently there but we best not let complicated reality get in the way of a good paul K fantasy.
A lot of ground had never seen a scallop dredge but with this lot that are here now they have been working practially all over the place and were getting plenty of fish as bycatch in the dredges its common knowledge steve you know it yourself
Again you contradict yourself, you have told us several times there were now no Cod where the scallop boats have been, this is verging on weird, nobody in the world can be that intellectually challenged surely?
talking to 2 ex trawler skippers last night who fished on whitefish they both are out of the fishing industry now spent many years trawling for white fish funny thing one of them mentioned scalloping his exact words were scallop dredgeing do a hell of lot more damage to the ground than a beam trawl funny you should say that there one lad on one of the forums who is complet denile of any wrong doing with dredges he just laughed what he said what is he kidding no he is serious i just said he is in denile .
You would need to translate that one for me, it's a whole new language and world.
Scallop dredges have a negative impact on the marine environment as does any other human interaction with the marine environment, anyone in denial of that is simply wrong.
Human impacts are very well quantified and documented, from aggregate dredging through to walking a dog on the beach, and pretty much every human activity in between.
As where i am fishing tommorow 400yds from the cliff back no scalloping done here ground like bell metal hardest ground off this coast plenty of fish there steve if you know just where to look what we are going back to summer out on the reefs is anybodys buisness if there is anything left out there in one peice frightning.
Sounds like you would be far better going where the scallopers are, if they are getting a lot of Cod then they must be thick on the ground....scallop dredges are seriously inefficient at taking any fish but flatfish and Monks so there must be wild numbers of Cod on that ground where you constantly tell us there are no cod....
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i will say something where i will be taking my customers tommorow the ground has never seen a scallop dredge thats the difference because if it had the fish wouldnt be there,
paul..
Morning paul.....I wonder if you could explain the point you make above.
Yesterday you told us that scallop dredgers were discarding cod in numbers in your area. How does that fit in with what you say again today, it is all very confusing?
You do actually appreciate that you are constantly contradicting yourself?
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The gear wasn't the only reason the 6 limit was imposed it has lot to do with the destruction of the ground as well don't kid yourself Steve and it ain't finished yet and again I don't make these regulations .
You were asking about Pot limitation on Facebook I thought you would have known that Steve all the years fishing commercially .
You keep telling yourself that Paul, I think deep down we all really know what happened, but you live in that wee make believe world if you like I will stick to planet reality.
What are you on about asking pot limits, where and when was this, I may well have done so but can't remember it.
Being frank those running marine management themselves can't keep up with the regulations so it is no surprise if I can't, more so regarding other sectors.
To quote the MMO....
The Marine Management Organisation tries to maintain The Blue Book with up-to-date legislation but cannot guarantee that it is up to date at all times. The legislation and documents may have been updated since the links above were published.
I am sure that you will know them all paul, the Blue Book is pretty easy to digest - if you have a spare 5 years on your hands (by which time another several hundred pages will have been added).....
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fishing-regulations-the-blue-book
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My claims steve again i asked you before why has a 6 mile emergency closed area being imposed on scalloping i didnt do it it wasnt my decision so now your saying there is no fish that get into the dredges is that right or wrong i thinks its right and you know its right they arent sensational claims steve they are facts do dredges smash lobsters to bits fact yes do they smash crabs to bits fact yes do they also catch fish fact yes no sensensations claims steve just everything is total denile.
As for boats changeing flags i will find just how many have done this again its a fact this has happened no sensational claims
Who says breaking the law doesnt payl
£460,000 in the bank fined £97,000
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4378453.ece
paul..
Interesting stuff again paul.....the six mile closure was because of gear conflict, nothing more and nothing less.
I have never said no fish get in the dredges, you however have constantly claimed that there should be no Cod where the dredges are, yet you now appear to completely contradict that.
Today you regale us with tales of lots of Cod being discarded by these same scallop dredgers on the scallop grounds where according to you there should be no Cod.
Both versions obviously can't be right outwith the Land of Make Believe, which one is it that you are promoting today.....??,
This is starting to smell like yet another world class example of foot shooting....you are really good at making a mockery of your own points aren't you.
Please do find out how many UK boats have flagged out to Norway, I would be interested to hear that as Norwegian regs make the draconian UK regs seem like light touch.
I agree with you on the link, it is absolutely disgraceful how lightly they got off, something strange has gone on there I suspect.
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o what i was told is right steve i wasnt told just how many boats had done this but he said they fishing side by side with boats which have done this the exact numbers of boats i couldnt tell you facinating this is allowed to go on .
What do think about the discards from the scallop dredges .
paul.
On your first point, do you ever wonder if people tell you things knowing that you will go on to repeat them and make an arse of yourself?
I am astonished given all that you have told us that the scallopers are catching any cod, it makes a complete mockery of all of your wild sensationalistic claims, yet another foot shot, well done you......
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So angling nots susatainable and fishing with longlines not sustainable
no discards steve new one on me so what happens to the cod as a by catch in the dredges steve as i am to believe what the scallop boats up here are doing is dumping any fish they get as they cant be bothered or have no quota to land it they are getting that many scallops its just hassle to mess about with the fish and this is what i was told from a lad who just done a trip on one of the scallopers funny one old world aint it..Now if you are seriously worried about cod stocks as you seem to be what i was told the other day will make your hairs stand on end .
There are boats who have now registered in norway that takes them out of the uk quota system and can now fish in uk water but only have a 25% bycatch of cod in the catch so now what happends there selective grading on hugh scale unless its over box lenth to get the best price for the fish on the market it goes straight back over the side dead perfectly good fish i was told by a lad who is working the same grounds and has spent 100ss of £1000ss of pounds buying quota over the years boats fishing along side them are doing this as we speak so if you worried about the few codlings we catch wake up to the reality.
But on other hand leasing quota puts you in that position if you have paid £1500 a ton to lease cod quota it has to be the best sized fish to get the best price or it goes back over the side its a mad world but us little lads dont even scatch the surface if you think we do you are extremly nieve .
paul.
I don't think anything on the situation paul I am simply highlighting the reality of what passes for being "sustainable" regarding modern fish stocks.
For Cod in any area where they are under a formal EU recovery plan (as Cod are in the UK zone of the North Sea) no take from the stock can be described as sustainable, be that taking one fish or taking one hundred tons of fish, it matters not a jot.
Regarding reality and who is naive, I am simply telling you the reality of how things are, there is nothing unrealistic or naive in what I post on this issue, you seem to be struggling to grasp reality - whether that makes you naive or not I couldn't possibly comment, although I really hope that someone in your position has a better idea of what's what than it sometimes appears.
That old devil called reality is what you have to deal with, how it actually is......not how you think it should be or how you wish it to be. Hopefully some day you will wake up before your entire foot is shot away....
I am intrigued with all these UK boats Flagging out to Norway, I know of one ex PD boat who did but that was a complex issue, who are the rest?
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What a way to spend a morning a lovelly day at sea this method of commercial fishing is extremly sustainable many years old long before trawling came on scene and it still does well today these guys are fishing for cod with baited lines with squid .This was a just a few days ago these lads love what they they do .
paul.
This fishery would not meet the criteria for being a "sustainable fishery" paul, no more than your angling endeavours would.
Much as it's all lovely and very nice and looks great fun "sustainable" it is not.
Why......Cod in the North Sea are still under a formal EU recovery plan, so any take from the stock is unsustainable, even a single fish let alone the boat loads you take some days.....crazy as it may seem that is the reality.
Sustainability is a whole of the impacts and stock, it doesn't do - it was him or he is worse than me....think big picture.
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You know why the potting has exploded Steve the lack of trawlers fishing for whitefish a lot of ex trawler men have invested heavily into Potts these pots are shot on the best of ground or reefs .
Now over the yeArs there has allways been scalloping done here I used to see a lad from scarborough regular towin the soft ground between 3/5 mile out the 4/5 mile no problem what so ever suddenly all these boats turn up not giving a dam where they were towing. gear was being towed away and these boats were. going over the best of ground taking all t he edges of and peaks off the ground doing a lot of damage to the ground .
There was allways an understanding here that looks in tatters now some boats have lost £1000ss in lost gear so you can see why a lot of skippers are chasing for a large closed area for scalloping .
Interesting to see even more new potters piling into the fishery paul, exploding the already unbelievably exploded static gear numbers on the ground even more, a very strange business indeed given all that you have told us
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To many Potts Steve e that's what your saying to many dredges 2 a side then hoes that sound .
Pot limitation will soon be introduced probably a good thing long term 10 bag limit on scallops per day the screams would be unbearable ..
One under 10 mtr scalloper from exceter has grossed over £500.000 so I am told a lot a scallops Steve maybe some restriction three if we are talking about Potts in numbers and we are talking about LOCAL fishermen not someboday who wrecked there own grounds and need to come trash the reefs off the Yorkshire coast .
Then move somewhere else to do the same
LOCAL fishermen are up in arms and they have right to be the net is closing .
I don't know that much about it paul but you claim to. 2000 pots seems a lot for under 10 metre boats, shockingly so, more so given that there are a huge number of potting vessels in the area. I am not surprised that they do not check them every day, you would need a 37 hour day to get round that lot.
There already are a huge suite of restrictions on scalloping, I am rather surprised that you are unaware of this given your huge interest on the subject.
I am still bewildered with this trashing anything. The facts are that scallop fishing has gone on in the area for decades and there were no issues, either with potters or with anglers. Why would they suddenly be wrecking anything fishing the same areas using the same gear (which is tightly controlled by those regulations that you seem completely unaware of).
Now after the huge explosion in potting effort in the area (confirmed by your 2000 pots claim above , I wonder how many pots under 10s in the area worked decades back??) there are huge issues!
I am no Poirot but then you do not need to be to think something isn't quite right here....;-)
Incidentally - I get along fine with potters, some of my best friends are potters, I am an active member of the Galloway Static Gear Fishermen's Association.....to a man we all realised a long time ago what the real threat is to all of our activities and regularly stand shoulder to shoulder when these threats arise, it works very well for all.......you will wake up to reality someday, hopefully before it is too late.
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You really don't what the hell you are on about Barry how many Potts do you think an under 10 mtr boat works some have upto 2000 at sea at any one time but don't haul them every day it isn't worth hauling them every day every 3 days you do need to engage your brain a bit more when rabble on about things you know nothing about .
Read the last line of the parGraph a couple more times and then go and think long and hard what the gentleman is saying .
Paul
And there we have your nail on the head moment on this one Paul.
Anything in your post above jump out at you at all??
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No scallopers in sight do I have to leave this tommorow .
tI am rather surprised that one would leave the charms of Benidorm for the traditional scallop fishing heartlands, she will miss you something rotten you know.....you wot....going home you saaay
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No spin here Barry you know nothing about our coastline I don't look short term what we have or maybe HAD here the best ground around the uk here at the moment being plundered maybe you don't give a **** but I do .
Shell fishermen are also echoing the same worries .
Paul
Now now paul, our allies are watching you major local Cod stock impactors very closely.....
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Why would put that up on here for what Reason I can read you like a book Steve anti anglerk again why would you post that on here and for what reason answer the question . .
I am anything but an anti-angler, be under no illusions otherwise.
I put it up in response to this from you -
Steve you just don't give up local fishermen the bulk are totally against scallop dredgeing in its present format they need regulating it has allready started and it will not stop there winge all you like mate times ticking away .
....time is indeed ticking away, some of us are bright enough to realise this while others seem completely oblivious to what is happening in the big bad real world.
It illustrates very well that angling activities are also very much under scrutiny, angler cod and Bass take were not quantified as part of SA2012 for fun.
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There you go agaiin Steve anglers catching all the fish your at it again on an angling website 1000000 anglers I love that expression that would only come from someone who is completely anti angler you said that epression before Why seals eat
more fish than anglers catch ordo you think selective grading is exceptable you say your an angler bullshit .
Paul
Jeez paul, this is getting like dumb and dumber with the bright parts taken out.....
Those are not my words, those are the words of UK Government, you know, those people who make the rules and implement regulations. That is the official UK Government position on angler impact on stocks, it is slanted towards Bass and that favourite industrial take of yours, Cod....mind how you go.....
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Steve you just don't give up local fishermen the bulk are totally against scallop dredgeing in its present format they need regulating it has allready started and it will not stop there winge all you like mate times ticking away .
Time is ticking on every extractive activity paul, it is the ways of the world, the smart guys are well aware of this. I hope that you are up to it and I certainly hope that you have an A game hiding somewhere among all that waffle.....tick tock tick tock.....
Ps....scallop dredging has been regulated for decades, we are well used to marine management and its weird and wonderful policy drivers. I fear for currently unregulated and unmanaged activities for whom regulation is an alien concept.
To quote UK Government -
Our surveys also confirm what has been found elsewhere in Europe and overseas – that sea anglers can catch a significant amount of fish. “Surely”, you say “we catch tiny amounts compared to a trawler or a netter”. A bit of simple maths shows that if a million anglers catch just 1kg of fish each year, it adds up to 1000 tonnes, which is a lot of fish.
Sea Angling 2012 has provided good evidence that sea angling makes a big contribution to the economy, but it also has an impact on stocks. The angling community, commercial fishers, Defra, MMO, and IFCAs to can now use this evidence alongside commercial catches to ensure that the needs of all types of fishers are considered and represented in the development fishery policy.
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You mean it could have been one of the best Steve it had only really been trashed heavily over the last 12 months again dredges smash lobsters crabs in great numbers all to catch a scallop in my book that's wrong you defence of scalloping is in your intetest so be it the quicker they are severly regulated off the Yorkshire coast the better again It won't be me who makes that decision have your winge to them not me .
Those are the local potters words in the Whitby Gazette article a few days ago paul, not mine, is he deliberately misleading people, or are you, obviously you can't both be right?
Patrick feels that the ground of Scarborough is some of the best in the world for shellfish
Ours is one of the best ports for lobsters and crabs and is on a par with Whitby
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Been sent the article about all the shell fishermen who reconize what's at stake but it won't paste will have to wait till I arrive back in the uk there numbers wil probably have swollen by then mind you some have only been at it a few months so they won't know nothing niot really 100s of years Of experience working the grounds of this coast between them you reLy do need to read this they are passionate and know just what's at stake .
Paul
If it's the article I think it is then it's some locals pushing their own position, it's what people do...I did the very same in our regional paper a few weeks back, what else are they going to do, shoot themselves in the foot?
You actually yet again highlight part of the issue in your waffle above - "some have only been at it a few months" - why have they only gone to it recently when you tell us the world is being decimated by these scallopers, just as it has been for decades, are the stupid and setting pots for nothing simply to add further to the incredible explosion in potting effort in the area?
Although from the article they seem to suggest not -
Patrick feels that the ground of Scarborough is some of the best in the world for shellfish
Ours is one of the best ports for lobsters and crabs and is on a par with Whitby
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Mr Roberts is very controversial character but he is one of many who voiced there opinions on the subject I don't need him or anybody else i have seen it first hand people only like what they want yo hear look Hughs fish fight one minutiae he was a king next minuite he was most wanted that's because he said he wanted everything landed no discards now that's taboo Steve and you know that nuts that's another story in the crazy game of the CFP .
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/10/scallop-wars-on-britains-west-coast
Paul
HFW was always an idiot, he and the Roberts duet led to the creation of an entire new term in the salty world - "The Scientifically Illiterate"...nice ring to it doncha think.....
Ps....I thought we were getting a Whitby Gazette article not a re-run of the worn out Beano....
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Smashing all the eggs just what rubbish are you talking about What you did was try and cause trouble on fishing news forum when it was actually a potter who kicked it off in the first place come on admit your wrong is that possible every single thing I said about what destruction of dredgeing is repeated in that article you are totally clueless read it again and let the brain take it in those aren't my words it's common knowledge .
I can understand it with Steve if he has valid intetest but you you really are a knockout and should keep your nose out of things you know hook all about smashing up eggs that's just How much you haves clue about anything that happens off out coastline .
Paul
I can't see the article you posted, but being frank - anything with even the slightest whiff of Callum Roberts in it will not be topping the charts in the credibility hit parade.
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Can't stay here for to long Steve to many hungry anglers wanting me to put them On the fish so I am back on Friday and just looked on the BBC at the the weather here this week a tadge better than the UK .
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2521978
Paul
The biggest problem for many fishers in the North Sea just now is avoiding Cod, some steaming hundreds of miles to try and escape them.....jeez my granny could put people onto Cod and she has been dead for 20 years.
How are things in the Spanish seafood marketing world just now, is there still good demand for line caught....
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There is literally 100ss of articles about the most destructive form of commercial fishing to the marine environent dredgeing for scallops .
This one is right to the point cutting down a rainforest to catch a parrot that's the damage dredgeing for scallops does to the bottom .
.http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/10/scallop-wars-on-britains-west-coast
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/feb/10/scallop-wars-on-britains-west-coast
Paul
I think he meant something even semi-credible, not an agenda driven newspaper greenwashing.
Ps....some of these "dive caught" guys allegedly source scallops from the most interesting places in times of need
Pps....I hope you are in Spain for a while, those poor Whitby Cod will benefit with a rest from your daily plundering and decimation of the stock
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Answer this question Steve why has the fisheries officer put an emergency closure on scallop fishing out to 6 mile is it because they are planting daffodils as they drag there dredges along .
The reality - due to sectoral conflict that should never have been allowed to get to where it did for many reasons.
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Love you Steve full off dodgy poo ask the chief fisheries officer why he the put the emergency ban on scalloping your laughable mate defending one of the most destructive forms of fishing to the marine environent .
Paul
Love you Steve full off dodgy poo ask the chief fisheries officer why he the put the emergency ban on scalloping your laughable mate defending one of the most destructive forms of fishing to the marine environent .
Paul
I am intrigued paul, do tell, what is dodgy poo?
Now think long and hard because brighter sparks than you have made similar claims about my posts on various angling forums over the years, yet when it comes to showing the where and when anything I have posted is dodgy they have been found seriously wanting.
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I know very little about scallop fishing, but I've been reading this with interest. I've seen the videos of dredges ploughing furrows across the sea bed, and read Robert Goodwills pledge on his site after a meeting with local concerned interests, http://www.robertgoodwill.co.uk/news/mp-fishing-support-pledge (it's from last year).
I'm willing to be educated by those 'in the know'.
The sea bed (as far as I know), is made up of different types of ground, rocky, sandy, shingle etc. From what I've seen you can get a stretch of sandy sea bed, inter spaced with sections of rock. If a dredger is working a stretch of sandy sea bed, and they come across a smallish area of rock, do they withdraw the dredge until they have passed the rock, (so as not to damage it), or continue on through it, to the next stretch of sand?
John
You would see it on your electrickery and turn whichever direction was most suitable to go round about it John then resume whichever direction you wished, be that back on the course you were on or in another direction, but in real terms you would know it was there and not go near it anyway. Despite pauls endless waffle this ground is all known, it was scallop fished long before the relatively recent explosion in potting effort which has led to the new "crisis".
The vast majority of modern scallopers have serious electronics, we have 3D seabed mapping plotters with ground discrimination, state of the art sounders, and a sonar that can "see" the seabed (and water column) 2km all around the boat, so you get plenty of warning of what is coming up ahead of you even if it was an area you had not fished before or had info from someone who had (it has been 15 years+ since I have been in this situation). It is very rare to tow in straight lines, you are always looking for the right ground, edges and contours, constantly tweaking your course seeking this.
Ps...it's a bit of a walk on the wild side this one with paul, one minute it's habitat issues, next it's charter boats, next it's cod, next it's sectoral conflict....whatever next, Al Gore popping up claiming that scallopers single handedly caused the Climate Con?
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Sustainable Fishing
in Non-Fishing Chat
Posted
Round in circles indeed, jeezo we are just getting to the good bits, the money shots.....and you still of course have all these multiple positions on the same points to clear up....
Modern marine management is ever evolving paul, it never sits still, there are all those very lucrative marine mismanagement jobs to conserve, it requires an endless stream of new management opportunities to sustain itself. I am sure that there will be changes to a lot of stakeholder activities in that area in the not to distant future.
Plenty talk of pot limits, bag limits on anglers etc etc all around the countryside.....the smart guys will do what they have always done, prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. The not so smart guys will still be blaming everyone else with their head buried in the sand while they are regulated into oblivion....mind how you go skipper, eyes wide open....