stevieg

Round in circles indeed, jeezo we are just getting to the good bits, the money shots.....and you still of course have all these multiple positions on the same points to clear up.... Modern marine management is ever evolving paul, it never sits still, there are all those very lucrative marine mismanagement jobs to conserve, it requires an endless stream of new management opportunities to sustain itself. I am sure that there will be changes to a lot of stakeholder activities in that area in the not to distant future. Plenty talk of pot limits, bag limits on anglers etc etc all around the countryside.....the smart guys will do what they have always done, prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. The not so smart guys will still be blaming everyone else with their head buried in the sand while they are regulated into oblivion....mind how you go skipper, eyes wide open....

You digress as always Paul, avoiding the question like the plague.....again Sensible fishers head for the best fishing, it is the ways of the world, has been since Jesus was a boy. Why do WY boats fish all over the UK and Norwegian waters.....it's what they do and always have done, seek the most profitable fishing, that is why boats generally have licences to fish all over rather than their own area. There are a few other regulatory reasons why many of them are currently there but we best not let complicated reality get in the way of a good paul K fantasy. Again you contradict yourself, you have told us several times there were now no Cod where the scallop boats have been, this is verging on weird, nobody in the world can be that intellectually challenged surely? You would need to translate that one for me, it's a whole new language and world. Scallop dredges have a negative impact on the marine environment as does any other human interaction with the marine environment, anyone in denial of that is simply wrong. Human impacts are very well quantified and documented, from aggregate dredging through to walking a dog on the beach, and pretty much every human activity in between. Sounds like you would be far better going where the scallopers are, if they are getting a lot of Cod then they must be thick on the ground....scallop dredges are seriously inefficient at taking any fish but flatfish and Monks so there must be wild numbers of Cod on that ground where you constantly tell us there are no cod....

Morning paul.....I wonder if you could explain the point you make above. Yesterday you told us that scallop dredgers were discarding cod in numbers in your area. How does that fit in with what you say again today, it is all very confusing? You do actually appreciate that you are constantly contradicting yourself?

You keep telling yourself that Paul, I think deep down we all really know what happened, but you live in that wee make believe world if you like I will stick to planet reality. What are you on about asking pot limits, where and when was this, I may well have done so but can't remember it. Being frank those running marine management themselves can't keep up with the regulations so it is no surprise if I can't, more so regarding other sectors. To quote the MMO.... I am sure that you will know them all paul, the Blue Book is pretty easy to digest - if you have a spare 5 years on your hands (by which time another several hundred pages will have been added)..... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fishing-regulations-the-blue-book

Interesting stuff again paul.....the six mile closure was because of gear conflict, nothing more and nothing less. I have never said no fish get in the dredges, you however have constantly claimed that there should be no Cod where the dredges are, yet you now appear to completely contradict that. Today you regale us with tales of lots of Cod being discarded by these same scallop dredgers on the scallop grounds where according to you there should be no Cod. Both versions obviously can't be right outwith the Land of Make Believe, which one is it that you are promoting today.....??, This is starting to smell like yet another world class example of foot shooting....you are really good at making a mockery of your own points aren't you. Please do find out how many UK boats have flagged out to Norway, I would be interested to hear that as Norwegian regs make the draconian UK regs seem like light touch. I agree with you on the link, it is absolutely disgraceful how lightly they got off, something strange has gone on there I suspect.

On your first point, do you ever wonder if people tell you things knowing that you will go on to repeat them and make an arse of yourself? I am astonished given all that you have told us that the scallopers are catching any cod, it makes a complete mockery of all of your wild sensationalistic claims, yet another foot shot, well done you......

I don't think anything on the situation paul I am simply highlighting the reality of what passes for being "sustainable" regarding modern fish stocks. For Cod in any area where they are under a formal EU recovery plan (as Cod are in the UK zone of the North Sea) no take from the stock can be described as sustainable, be that taking one fish or taking one hundred tons of fish, it matters not a jot. Regarding reality and who is naive, I am simply telling you the reality of how things are, there is nothing unrealistic or naive in what I post on this issue, you seem to be struggling to grasp reality - whether that makes you naive or not I couldn't possibly comment, although I really hope that someone in your position has a better idea of what's what than it sometimes appears. That old devil called reality is what you have to deal with, how it actually is......not how you think it should be or how you wish it to be. Hopefully some day you will wake up before your entire foot is shot away.... I am intrigued with all these UK boats Flagging out to Norway, I know of one ex PD boat who did but that was a complex issue, who are the rest?

This fishery would not meet the criteria for being a "sustainable fishery" paul, no more than your angling endeavours would. Much as it's all lovely and very nice and looks great fun "sustainable" it is not. Why......Cod in the North Sea are still under a formal EU recovery plan, so any take from the stock is unsustainable, even a single fish let alone the boat loads you take some days.....crazy as it may seem that is the reality. Sustainability is a whole of the impacts and stock, it doesn't do - it was him or he is worse than me....think big picture.

Interesting to see even more new potters piling into the fishery paul, exploding the already unbelievably exploded static gear numbers on the ground even more, a very strange business indeed given all that you have told us

I don't know that much about it paul but you claim to. 2000 pots seems a lot for under 10 metre boats, shockingly so, more so given that there are a huge number of potting vessels in the area. I am not surprised that they do not check them every day, you would need a 37 hour day to get round that lot. There already are a huge suite of restrictions on scalloping, I am rather surprised that you are unaware of this given your huge interest on the subject. I am still bewildered with this trashing anything. The facts are that scallop fishing has gone on in the area for decades and there were no issues, either with potters or with anglers. Why would they suddenly be wrecking anything fishing the same areas using the same gear (which is tightly controlled by those regulations that you seem completely unaware of). Now after the huge explosion in potting effort in the area (confirmed by your 2000 pots claim above , I wonder how many pots under 10s in the area worked decades back??) there are huge issues! I am no Poirot but then you do not need to be to think something isn't quite right here....;-) Incidentally - I get along fine with potters, some of my best friends are potters, I am an active member of the Galloway Static Gear Fishermen's Association.....to a man we all realised a long time ago what the real threat is to all of our activities and regularly stand shoulder to shoulder when these threats arise, it works very well for all.......you will wake up to reality someday, hopefully before it is too late.

And there we have your nail on the head moment on this one Paul. Anything in your post above jump out at you at all??

I am rather surprised that one would leave the charms of Benidorm for the traditional scallop fishing heartlands, she will miss you something rotten you know.....you wot....going home you saaay

Now now paul, our allies are watching you major local Cod stock impactors very closely.....

. Why would put that up on here for what Reason I can read you like a book Steve anti anglerk again why would you post that on here and for what reason answer the question . . I am anything but an anti-angler, be under no illusions otherwise. I put it up in response to this from you - ....time is indeed ticking away, some of us are bright enough to realise this while others seem completely oblivious to what is happening in the big bad real world. It illustrates very well that angling activities are also very much under scrutiny, angler cod and Bass take were not quantified as part of SA2012 for fun.

Jeez paul, this is getting like dumb and dumber with the bright parts taken out..... Those are not my words, those are the words of UK Government, you know, those people who make the rules and implement regulations. That is the official UK Government position on angler impact on stocks, it is slanted towards Bass and that favourite industrial take of yours, Cod....mind how you go.....

Time is ticking on every extractive activity paul, it is the ways of the world, the smart guys are well aware of this. I hope that you are up to it and I certainly hope that you have an A game hiding somewhere among all that waffle.....tick tock tick tock..... Ps....scallop dredging has been regulated for decades, we are well used to marine management and its weird and wonderful policy drivers. I fear for currently unregulated and unmanaged activities for whom regulation is an alien concept. To quote UK Government - Our surveys also confirm what has been found elsewhere in Europe and overseas – that sea anglers can catch a significant amount of fish. “Surely”, you say “we catch tiny amounts compared to a trawler or a netter”. A bit of simple maths shows that if a million anglers catch just 1kg of fish each year, it adds up to 1000 tonnes, which is a lot of fish. Sea Angling 2012 has provided good evidence that sea angling makes a big contribution to the economy, but it also has an impact on stocks. The angling community, commercial fishers, Defra, MMO, and IFCAs to can now use this evidence alongside commercial catches to ensure that the needs of all types of fishers are considered and represented in the development fishery policy.

Those are the local potters words in the Whitby Gazette article a few days ago paul, not mine, is he deliberately misleading people, or are you, obviously you can't both be right? Patrick feels that the ground of Scarborough is some of the best in the world for shellfish Ours is one of the best ports for lobsters and crabs and is on a par with Whitby

Been sent the article about all the shell fishermen who reconize what's at stake but it won't paste will have to wait till I arrive back in the uk there numbers wil probably have swollen by then mind you some have only been at it a few months so they won't know nothing niot really 100s of years Of experience working the grounds of this coast between them you reLy do need to read this they are passionate and know just what's at stake . Paul If it's the article I think it is then it's some locals pushing their own position, it's what people do...I did the very same in our regional paper a few weeks back, what else are they going to do, shoot themselves in the foot? You actually yet again highlight part of the issue in your waffle above - "some have only been at it a few months" - why have they only gone to it recently when you tell us the world is being decimated by these scallopers, just as it has been for decades, are the stupid and setting pots for nothing simply to add further to the incredible explosion in potting effort in the area? Although from the article they seem to suggest not - Patrick feels that the ground of Scarborough is some of the best in the world for shellfish Ours is one of the best ports for lobsters and crabs and is on a par with Whitby

HFW was always an idiot, he and the Roberts duet led to the creation of an entire new term in the salty world - "The Scientifically Illiterate"...nice ring to it doncha think..... Ps....I thought we were getting a Whitby Gazette article not a re-run of the worn out Beano....

I can't see the article you posted, but being frank - anything with even the slightest whiff of Callum Roberts in it will not be topping the charts in the credibility hit parade.

The biggest problem for many fishers in the North Sea just now is avoiding Cod, some steaming hundreds of miles to try and escape them.....jeez my granny could put people onto Cod and she has been dead for 20 years. How are things in the Spanish seafood marketing world just now, is there still good demand for line caught....

I think he meant something even semi-credible, not an agenda driven newspaper greenwashing. Ps....some of these "dive caught" guys allegedly source scallops from the most interesting places in times of need Pps....I hope you are in Spain for a while, those poor Whitby Cod will benefit with a rest from your daily plundering and decimation of the stock

The reality - due to sectoral conflict that should never have been allowed to get to where it did for many reasons.

I am intrigued paul, do tell, what is dodgy poo? Now think long and hard because brighter sparks than you have made similar claims about my posts on various angling forums over the years, yet when it comes to showing the where and when anything I have posted is dodgy they have been found seriously wanting.

You would see it on your electrickery and turn whichever direction was most suitable to go round about it John then resume whichever direction you wished, be that back on the course you were on or in another direction, but in real terms you would know it was there and not go near it anyway. Despite pauls endless waffle this ground is all known, it was scallop fished long before the relatively recent explosion in potting effort which has led to the new "crisis". The vast majority of modern scallopers have serious electronics, we have 3D seabed mapping plotters with ground discrimination, state of the art sounders, and a sonar that can "see" the seabed (and water column) 2km all around the boat, so you get plenty of warning of what is coming up ahead of you even if it was an area you had not fished before or had info from someone who had (it has been 15 years+ since I have been in this situation). It is very rare to tow in straight lines, you are always looking for the right ground, edges and contours, constantly tweaking your course seeking this. Ps...it's a bit of a walk on the wild side this one with paul, one minute it's habitat issues, next it's charter boats, next it's cod, next it's sectoral conflict....whatever next, Al Gore popping up claiming that scallopers single handedly caused the Climate Con?