kleinboet
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a series of experiments wherein terminal patients volunteered to be placed inside hermetically sealed chambers. These chambers, and everything contained in the chambers, were weighed to an accuracy of one ten thousandth of a gram. Inevitably, when the individual inside the chamber passed on, the measured weight of the sealed chamber reduced on the order of 3 to 5 grams of mass. This mass discrepancy was coincident in time with the passing over of the volunteer in the chamber. The researchers came to believe that this might be due to some energetic component moving away from vicinity of the body. Subsequently, they placed very sensitive electromagnetic detection systems all over the outsides of the chambers. Then they were able to observe that when the terminal patient died, that an electromagnetic impulse was picked up by the detection apparatus. (By E = mc ^2 , three grams of mass is equal to about 17,000,000 kilowatt/hours of electricity. Consciousness is a powerful thing.)
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The rational explanation for this is that there is a temporary rise in body temperature at death, caused by the blood losing the cooling effect of circulating through the lungs. Moisture evaporation brought about by the rise in temperature would account for the small weight loss (said to be 21 grams).
Is that so, so if I mow the garden I will lose 21 grams, clear the shed (21 grams), etc. then I COULD lose about 210g or a quarter of a kilo doing these chores. You're RICH!! Charge people to do your work and guarantee they will lose that weight. There are people that will give a kings ransom to lose weight!!
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Alan - I agree with you (that's a first!) I know of several animals including a dog that had a set of wheels fitted and lived another 3 years! It might not always be the case with animals but it is with humans! They are not ALLOWED to be "put out of their misery" full stop!
Sportsman - you need help, everyone else understood what I am saying whereas you answered as if I had posted something unreasonable. Its all gobbledegook to you so I will ignore any future postings!
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Of course ALL animals have souls! And, I believe that they go to the same place we go when we are (to quote somebody) "reborn"!!!
The point I am trying to put over is that man is crueler to man than he is to animals!!
He insists that he cannot euthanise himself, yet if his animal/s are in the slightest discomfort that cannot be allayed, the animal is put down to "prevent it suffering"
WHY?
What's wrong with doing the same for humans!
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Plenty of Dolphins in South Africa, but I can't recall anyone catching one (remember that they are one of the smartest sea dwellers there is).
I do remember a couple being caught in nets though. I also remember Dolphins coming up to our Ski-boat for a stroke when fishing at the edge of the Sardine shoal!
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Sportsman - PLEASE don't make half a posting! OK if you are not smart enough let me try and make it simpler. A man has his legs amputated as they have been crushed by a car - A dog is euthanised because his back legs were crushed by a car!
A man is diagnosed with an extremely virulent and painful form of Cancer that even Opium will not ease the pain and it is inoperable yet he is not allowed to kill himself because he cannot take the pain - an animal is diagnosed with the same Cancer and is painlessly euthanised.
It would appear that animals take preference over humans when a "humanitarian" decision is required
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That is exactly why I answered the DavyR input the way I did! The problem is that every time there is scientific evidence of something ( like the test of the weight loss at the moment of death, which was conducted under scientific conditions and the weight loss was ALWAYS the same) those who don't believe poo-poo the idea and do their best to prevent it being used. As in this debate!
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Interesting Chesters. Maybe I should put it another way. It has been proven that at the point of death, the body "loses" an amount of weight (I forget the exact figure) but that "spirit" (or soul or whatever you want to call it)leaves the body at the point of death.
Religion was described by one as a cult - I would suggest that they consult Websters or some other reliable dictionary and look up the two words and see the difference for themselves (why should I?)
This argument has been going on for over 2000 years and one debate is not going to settle it.
It is funny but people who believe don't go around saying "you can't go around saying you are secular!" But those who don't believe INSIST that they know better and ask believers to PROVE the existence of God. Maybe in another 1000 years we will have progessed (??) far enough to do just that!
In the last 1000 years items have been discovered which prove that a lot of names and events mentioned in the Bible. Sceptics don't believe that, saying that it isn't "proof" (what is?) well as they are still searching, maybe they will find something irrefutable!
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DavyR - Who or what made the world and universe? From what? How?
Where is the scientific evidence?
NEXT!
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Sportsman - You are accusing ME of not reading posts.
Please read this very carefully and then look at your reply:
Sportsman - do you honestly believe that someone who is literally screaming 24/7 must be denied the right to pain relief, even though it would result in their death!
If an animal is involved in an accident and had both back legs amputated and is humanely euthanised because the animal "would not have a good quality of life?".
If you can agree to both of those statements then you should seek help!
Now who's not reading posts!!
My point is just that - human double amputees can live a good life - but it would appear that animals not!(even though some animals have been fitted with wheels) and the government allows it!
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The minute the topic of religion is mentioned, the same old people reply with the same old denigrating replies! If I say something about religion, I get told that THEY know better and whatever I post is RUBBISH (although they don't say that in so many words, the inference is there)
WHY?
what are these "experts" afraid of?
Give them something to watch, they won't - but try to find something to counter what has been said.
I posted a topic on euthanasia, but it was getting hijacked to talk about religion, so here's your chance. Please give us your "expert" opinion, as it would appear that I know nothing!
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I will put a new posting to debate this as we are going way off topic!!
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Chesters don't pick the worst? one. Pick the ones where he tells you which section of the audience he is coming to. And where did he get "your father was a fireman - he worked on his day off and was killed when the floor collapsed and he fell two floors"
It was not in the paper.
How did he do that?
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Wow - it's obviously none of you have watched it!!
That's not even CLOSE!!!
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Sorry to go off topic again but Chesters - have you ever watched John Edwards? He doesn't ask for names, he gives information that could ONLY be known to the family! I have seen sceptics such as yourself shaking their heads saying "how does he do it - no-one outside the family knew that!"
Or "hang on - I've NEVER told any-one about that!"
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Chesters - The reason I said John Edwards is that if he is no genuine, someone has yet to let me in on where he gets his information!
I believe Emma (and others) believe once you die - that's it!!
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If you want it sorted, record the noise recording date and time on the tape.
If you get no action ask them for a Db meter as you will record the noise level yourself!
and please tell them that the dog is barking BEFORE 7am and AFTER 11pm!
If nothing happens and you've kept a contact record - go to the press!
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Jemma2 - As a non believer you would not remotely understand the word religion. It is not a cult, it is a way of life. Do you believe in the "religion" of Stonehenge? Until you understand about religion, don't spout off and show your ignorance.
In my religion, I am taught to pray to god, directly to god and no-one else. It is not something invented like the tooth fairy etc. Proof of the existence of characters in the Bible is being uncovered at regular intervals by archaeologists/historians. It is only a matter of time before they are all discovered, but the Bible is a book - written by mortals such as ourselves.
If some Professor proposes a theory, people will accept that theory until it is disproved. If you have cable, watch a couple of episodes of John Edwards and then come back to me saying I belong to a "cult"
When God made the world (disprove that!) he said my church, not churches. As far as I am concerned, I will believe until the existence of God is totall disproved!
However - back to thread:
Sportsman - do you honestly believe that someone who is literally screaming 24/7 must be denied the right to pain relief, even though it would result in their death!
On the other side:
If an animal is involved in an accident and had both back legs amputated and is humanely euthanised because the animal "would not have a good quality of life?".
If you can agree to both of those statements then you should seek help!
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Sportsman - I pray to my god, I discuss things with him, and I respect his will that he wants us to talk to him - the Catholic Church don't agree with that - so those that follow that religion are NOT the same as my religion!
I have already said that if two different doctors agree that the prognosis of quality of life is poor, with no hope of recovery, then if the patient asks them, they should be allowed to apply for permission to euthanize the patient. After all a vet doesn't even need that, all he needs is to report that quality of life is poor and outlook on the health front is poor, he can then Euthanize the animal!
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Ah! The "religion" that won't pray to God - Despite being told to do so from his son! They won't even speak to Jesus, but do it through the virgin Mary - even though the Bible expressly tell them not to! Yet believe that the PRIEST can forgive them their sins!! They also ban birth control of any kind, population regulation etc.
They, like another religion, take pieces of the Bible that suit them, and spout them for all to know!
But I am not talking religion here, I am talking humanitarianis!m
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I think what is confusing me is why this law is in place at all, surely one doctor and a second opinion should be enough! After all if a person is a "consenting adult" he should know his own mind!
I have had to have two animals "put down" due to their pain and lack of "quality of life" - but the authorities will not let an old man - crying out to die as the pain killers are not strong enough - take his own life
Surely that is cruelty in the worst way!!!
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How do you work this out?
Story one: We have a man arrested on suspicion of assisting his partner to die.
His partner had inoperable pancreatic cancer and possibly did not want to put up with the pain when he was going to die anyway!!
Story two: If you had an animal and the RSPCA examined it and said it needs to be euthanized immediately because it is "suffering unnecessary pain"
They do it and you are charged with cruelty!
How do you equate them both?
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Following my thread on Wooton Basset - the Times has published this article - Are we right to continue?
From The Times July 14, 2009
Verdict on the Afghanistan campaign: exactly what are we fighting for?
Public confusion over the principal objectives of the military campaign in Afghanistan has forced ministers to try to explain why so many British soldiers are dying and for what cause.
Initially, the reason for the mission in Helmand province was to ensure that al-Qaeda was prevented from ever again using Afghanistan as a safe haven for terrorism which would be damaging to Britain’s national security.
Verdict: the presence of British troops in the province since 2006 has helped to reduce the threat posed by al-Qaeda remnants who stayed behind after the Taleban was toppled in 2001. But some of the insurgents killed in clashes with British troops have turned out to be Yemenis, Chechens, Saudis and other, non-Afghan, nationalities.
Al-Qaeda responded by switching its terrorist operating centre from Afghanistan to Pakistan. So the threat to British streets from terrorism comes from Pakistan, not from Afghanistan. No one, apart from President George Bush in a speech he made several years ago, seriously believes that the Taleban is threatening Britain’s cities and Towns.
The troops of 16 Air Assault Brigade, who were the first to go to Helmand, were all told that their principal mission was “reconstruction” — in other words, to help the Afghans to improve their lives after decades of war.
Verdict: the soldiers found themselves caught up in fighting the Taleban who, until the British arrival, only faced 100 American troops running a provincial reconstruction Team (PRT) in Lashkar Gah, the provincial capital. The Taleban mounted a ferocious defence of what they considered to be their spiritual heartland. There was little time left for reconstruction, and when it did take place, it tended to be a new roof for a market here and a refurbishment of a school there.
Today, there is more development under way, but it’s largely in the hands of small teams from the Department for International Development, guarded wherever they go by armed private security men. The troops might want to build schools and roads, but they are still fighting to spread security and stability in key zones in order for work to start.
Rating: 5 out of 10.
The objective of Operation Herrick, codename for the British military campaign in Afghanistan, slowly began to suffer from mission creep. Tony Blair, when he was Prime Minister, emphasised that the troops were also there to tackle the heroin trade in Afghanistan. He warned the public that more than 90 per cent of the heroin that reached the streets of Britain and ended up ruining young people’s lives came from Afghanistan.
Verdict: Britain was given the responsibility under the so-called Bonn agreement to deal with counter-narcotics. But the achievements were limited in the first few years. Up to £20 million was spent putting money into the pockets of Afghan farmers to persuade them to turn to growing wheat and maize and vegetables, but to no avail. The poppy harvesting continued at record rates.
Today, progress has been made in targeting the opium traffickers and destroying stocks when found. But British troops have played no part in eradicating poppy fields; indeed they patrol through the fields during the poppy season in late April and early May and do nothing to stop the farmers from scraping the resin from the poppy heads which is then converted into opium. The yield from the last poppy harvest was down on the previous year but that had more to do with poor weather than successful missions by the international community to persuade poppy farmers to go straight.
Rating: 2 out of 10.
In addition to keeping out al-Qaeda, the Government has also stated the objective of spreading Afghan governance throughout Helmand, and ensuring that the presidential election on August 20 can go ahead without Taleban interference and intimidation.
Verdict: ask any Afghan official in Helmand whether he is able to do his job without fears for his safety. He will say that it is impossible to carry out all his responsibilities because there are areas which are still too dangerous. There also appears to be limited interest in Helmand development programes from within the government of President Karzai in Kabul. One district governor in Helmand told The Times that he had not been visited once by a ministry representative from the capital.
It is too early to know whether Operation Panther’s Claw, the mission to drive the Taleban out of central Helmand, will succeed in allowing the election to go ahead peacefully.
Rating: 4 out of 10.
Harriet Harman, the Leader of the Commons, introduced a further mission-creep objective to the British campaign when, last week in the Commons, she said that the provision of school places for children was a vital aim.
Verdict: although her remark was not totally incompatible with the objective of spreading governance and helping the Afghans to improve their lives, it helped further to muddy the waters over why 9,000 British troops are serving in southern Afghanistan. It is true, nevertheless, that millions more Afghan boys, and in particular, girls, are now going to school but often have to take classes in the heat of the day in makeshift tented classrooms.
Rating: 5 out of 10.
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Does anyone know how to set up a petition to honour Wootton Basset? (sorry, I mis-spelled it in the title)
I think the village deserves an honour for coming out and lining the streets when they bring our fallen boys (and girls) back. Does anyone know how to set it up?
IMHO they should be given the Elizabeth Medal (just as Malta was given the George Medal in WW2)
Thanks
John
Is there "life" after death?
in Non-Fishing Chat
Posted
OK Emma - Seeing as you are the font of all knowledge, would you like to explain to me (and EVERY scientist in the world!) exzactly HOW there was nothing!!!! The all of a sudden there was this system that we call the universe (galaxies are part of the universe)
Scientist have reasoned (not proven) that the universe was caused by a 'big bang' but haven't a clue where the substances came from to make this "bang" happen. Yet you say that I am in the minority????????? Wake up and smell the coffee!
To the others - I mentioned before that people do experiments to learn something. When these experiments "upset the applecart" of smug acceptance of the facts, has been proven to be wrong, instead of embracing the step forward, they go out of their way to discredit that research!