Ryford
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Posts posted by Ryford
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Hi cleeclive.
I believe that somewhere within the marine bill some of the new powers that are going to be given to IFCA, s are to just what you suggest. Having the power to close a fishery if they think that it is being over exploited. A Bit like what DEFRA do now in closing a fishery if they think that an endangered spices (let’s say cod for example) is being overly exploited as a buy catch within that fishery.
Will have a dig about and see if I can come up with anymore information on it.
Regards.
Hello Challenge,
Just for the record, at the annual SFC meeting held at the then Board of Trade (fisheries) on 27 May 1893, that very same topic was discussed.
As was other agenda items such as undersized fish, expenses, enforcement, dumping of sludge and scientific research.
It would appear that very little has changed.
Rgds
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I don't carry a first aid kit, but I do say a little prayer and ask for forgiveness, after I've helped them to cross over. Oh, and I always get them to look the other way before reaching for my table leg.
Nice to hear that you don't jump on 'em from the top of one of yer ladders.
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Tut, tut, Elton. Talking to commercial fishermen and catching fish, (which looked dead, by the way). You won't go to RSA heaven if you keep that sort of thing up, I can tell you.
Go and ask for forgiveness whilst giving yourself 40 lashes with a two up, one down, clipped rig.
Oh Dear Steve, you are so far behind the times dear chap.
Most responsible sea anglers these days carry a small first aid kit with a tube of Germaline just in case their capture should graze a fin or two on the shingle coming in.
I have heard say that some anglers carry a packet of face wipes for when they feel the fish needs a bit of comfort where they prefer to kiss it better as it were. Why they don't use a slice of the Mothers Pride they are carrying at the time mistifies me.
One of life's little mysteries I guess.
Ryford
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I take it that the RSA lobby present on the day were very much trying to push the C&R argument, then?
Not that I am aware.
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Even if the minute taker made a mistake and those weren't the exact words used by Richared Ferre, I can't see that catch and release was never mentioned in the sentence that may have been written down wrong. If the person taking the minutes had little idea of the subject, they would hardly have plucked the reference to catch and release out of thin air. They are just as unlikely to think of writing down a request for a definition of fish catching and whether it applied to catch and release, on their own initiative. This leads me to believe that Richard was seeking to find out whether C&R would be workable under any new legislation that we may be subject to. If this is the case, and I strongly suspect that it was, then this smacks of the same old appeasement tactics emplyed by the RSA lobby to date, that has lead us to the sorry mess we find ourselves in now.
In any case, Mike Smith, of Cefas, stated, (or was that yet another mistake?), that no scientist could quantify the percantage of fish that survived being caught and released and, in doing so, as good as told you that you can forget about using C&R to get you into MPA's and MCZ's,* as well as being allowed to fish once the cod quota has been used. If the people present didn't see that, then they really didn't ought to be sitting at the table discussing the future of sea angling.
*For as long as I can remember, Leon has been appeasing anglers whilst promoting MPA's by saying that they would be allowed to fish in them but it might be C&R only
I think you will find that Mr Smith was reminded that rod and line caught fish were preferred when used in conjunction with tagging surveys since the survival rate was as good as it could be. A comment that he agreed with by all accounts. Is that comment in the minutes?
Was the comment by one SW representative that he felt that the meeting lacked northern angler input recorded?
Maybe there has been a meeting with northern anglers already, I dunno. Maybe it was too far for them to travel for their sport where they would have to get up too early to catch the train, not to mention the cost of the fare.
Ryford
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Fishingsfine, the fishing reps we have here keep EVERYTHING in the unknown, which contributes directly to what you have read on this thread. And you think that their secrecy is justified?
Would it come as a surprise to you to hear that another group of anglers has met the minister (and not just Defra officials) at a separate meeting to discuss article 47?
And that's the ony other one I have heard about. Inless of course you have heard differently.
One representative briefed their membership over a week ago so I hear, so there's no secrecy there I am pleased to say. It's my impression that RF did not say what he is being accused of.
Ryford
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Fishingsfine, the fishing reps we have here keep EVERYTHING in the unknown, which contributes directly to what you have read on this thread. And you think that their secrecy is justified?
Would it come as a surprise to you to hear that another group of anglers has met the minister (and not Defra officials) at a separate meeting to discuss article 47?
And that's the ony other one I have heard about. Inless of course you have heard differently.
One representative breifed their membership over a week ago so I hear, so there's no secrecy there I am pleased to say. It's my impression that RF did not say what he is being accused of.
Ryford
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Are there any members of this forum who belong to the Angling Trust? Either as a new member, or as an exisisting member of the NFSA whose membership has been taken over by the AT?
I am sure there are Steve, but many are unlikely to declare their membership for risk of being pilloried.
Ryford
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After reading some of this thread I thought I would fire off a few [6 in total] emails to my local East of England MEPs.
So far I've had 2 replies, 1 by return email and 1 by snail mail. I sent my emails on the 4th Feb.
Both I am happy to say are against the proposals and have assured me they will be voting against Article 47.
It will be interesting to see if any others reply to me
It will be even more interesting to hear what they all have to say if Article 47 goes ahead unchanged. Some even think this to be distinct possibility.
Article 47 may have unleashed a monster that has learned to stick up for itself. It may be a good idea to think the unthinkable and begin to work towards getting the very best out of the opportunity.
There again somebody may have already suggested that here already.
Ryford
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Ignoring them wont do us any good Barry. I arent that Naive. I'm just dead set against having individuals with no angling knowledge going around to Noble house to tell them they represent the countries sea anglers and that they and only they know what we want..
Glen,
As a matter of interest, did you ask for an invitation?
Ryford
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Steve,
The only RSA rep I can see on there is the BASS chairman. May be worth asking him what has been said so far:
Elton,
Given your expert knowledge of MCZs and the South West, you might like to offer to the anglers in the area the benefit of your experience.
As it happens, in this particular instance, the views are being sought from all sections of the community, and not just those from recognised clubs and organisations. This issue is being debated at a perocial level and clubs are putting forward their views via their club elected officers etc.
Ryford
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Hi,
Is anyone aware of where I can access a list of Whitby fishing vessels that have been decomissioned?
Mike Freeman
Mike,
I am not sure if this will be possible as I understand that in certain areas, the authorities are supervising the cutting up of the vessel as well as the transport of all the scrap to local scrap dealers.
Ryford
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You could ask the commercial fishermen of Lyme Bay.
Hello Peter
The real issue with Lyme Bay was not the local fishermen per se, as there had been a long standing gentlemans agreement to protect the reef. What happened at the time when the fuel started to creep up was that the chaps with scallop dredgers decided they would go through on the way back to Brixham. The issue was raised at the Devon SFC, where it was pointed out to the chairman that ICES had advised that scallops were being fished sustainably. There was clearly nothing to stop them and it was made quite clear by the SFC member concerned that they had no intention of stopping.
It would be intersting to find out how the small local operators have faired since the clossure. Too soon to get a sensible idea, they may even do well out of it.
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Sorry Elton, it will have 6-7000 members and the rest of the 1.4 million of us that dont give a toss about the political side of angling will say "What do I get for my £20, nothing" so they wont join. I can see the whole thing falling apart within a couple of years. All the factions that have come together today in 'unity' will still have there own adgendas and if the nfsa gets more than the aca or fact gets more than saa then the arguements will start. Yet again PAY, PAY, PAY, for what? nothing. People talk to other people and NOTHING ever gets done. Typical politicians
Hello Ian,
In the Drew report into sea angling in England and Wales for Defra a few years ago, they reported that some 273,000 anglers went abroad to fish every year. I wonder what proportion of those are a member of the NFSA or another sea angling club or federation? It seems to me that since most of these trips will cost in the region of £1000, then it should not be too much of a hardship to join our national representative at the same time.
The potential monies gained by this part of our sport would make a significant difference and would allow RSA to represent itself better and more fully. Of course, there are anglers out there who are happy to do nothing. Its very much the same for the trade who seem content to maintain viability by either taking over the competition or getting costs down by outsourcing their product manufacturing overseas.
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Maybe we should tear up the Buyers and Sellers and stop recording what is being landed.
Just like the good 'ol days.
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Glenk.
12 months ago I would have suggested the same as you are suggesting in your post. That was prior to seeing what powers and changes will be coming to SFC, s with the introduction of the marine bill.
Without breaking any confidentiality rules, let me put this scenario to you. would you risk, if rules where in place for say a licence to fish (sea and freshwater) or bag limits on your catch breaking these rules if the person (or organisation) who was going to be enforcing these rules had the powers to suspend you from fishing (legally) for the faceable future, if not indefinitely?
would your friend not think twice about taking his bag limit and more if there was the chance that he could be band (from legally fishing) for life.
I believe that your dedication to your sport, as the same with millions of other anglers would deter them much more than the hundreds of extra fishery officers that will come with the marine bill.
Regards
Hello Challenge,
If, as some suspect, that the modernised SFC structure will have a much better, or more clearly defined agenda to deliver and administer, that there will be more accounatbility? How do you think that might take shape where minority member representation could continue to be sidelined in favour of a more powerful user group as has historically been the case. Do you think that any new structure can be truly effective at delivering co-management if the structure in place remains sub-optimal?
Do you think that the conduit link to Government, Defra in this case, is fit to act as arbiter in its present form?
Regards
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One wonders with the amount of UK fish exported by the commercial fishing industry when compared to the number of sea anglers and the vast amount of fish that they catch, thus stimulating the need for bag limits and licenses, who exactly has been feeding the nation all these years.
Ryford
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Been trying to find recent history of exeters reef. Anyone?
I think you will find that the Exeters has been reduced to something of a sandy bump.
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An absolute tragedy and my deepest sympathy goes to his widow and family.
I have to say that I've never been entirely happy with the idea of trusting my life to this type of product. I grew up using a rigid and will stick with what I have, its a personal thing. Yes it gets in the way, and its harder to get on and off than the paddle to fish, but I know that if I go over and crack my head in the process, I'll stand the best chance possible.
Perhaps now, those of use that use them and are to be honest, more vulnerable than many in that we are offshore sitting on an overgrown lunchbox, can take stock and make a much more objective decision about what safety equipment we use, and in the end, trust our lives to.
Ryford
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One thing that the CF industry forgets about this issue. It is that we are all affected where those involved with transportation of any sort being the worst hit. Why should they expect (and demand) to get preferencial treatment?
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As far as RSA considerations are concerned, there are far darker forces at work than the CFO on that committee.
Could it be that the relative or close aquaintence of another SFC member complained, suggesting that anglers were getting away with it. If there was a complaint of some description, then the CFO would have no option but to take action.
I'm of the view that the whole issue could have been resolved without the vessel being boarded at sea.
Ryford
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3.92 and 3.105 could prove interesting
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thedogs wrote-'I did hear that netted fish were being sold as line caught, dont know how true this is.'
This did happen , a large fish firm from this end of the woods decided it would be a good idea to have their own tags made and attach them to netted bass. Luckily a handline fishermen noticed this in his local supermarket . I believe Trading Standards became involved which resolved the issue.
Whilst not tagged, I have seen net caught bass being sold as line caught on a number of occasions.
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According to the the guy form defra at the meeting in scarborough the other night he more or less said the golden mile was a non starter and more or less said it aint gonna happen.
paul.
Hi Paul,
Did he explain or give reasons why it was not delieverable? And who was it as a matter if interest?
It occurs to me that there are always lots of powerful examples of things that are either impossible or will never happen. One striking example of this is the demise of car manufacturing in Coventry. Who would have given any credence to this back in the early seventies? But here we are, thirty years on and the cars have all but gone.
Andy
"Profound Decline in UK Fish Stocks"
in Conservation & Politics
Posted · Edited by Ryford
Wurzel,
Fish landings, excluding shell fish for 1898 was a bit over 8 million CWT. I suspect that this is not far from today and certainly not four times. Incidentally the "industry" employed a shade under 80,000 men and boys to catch them, which is a shadow of the number employed today for what is in effect, the same amount of fish.
Ryford