Circle Hooks

[Renrag39]

Have been thinking for a week or so whether or not to and I guess with all the the controversy there's nowt like tryin' and finding out for yourself.

Have got some Sakuma Circles off eBay in size 12 (for general river fishing, bream, roach, perch etc. using sweetcorn,flake and worm. Will also crush all the barbs), size 6 for my 'chuck it and see' set up (old gear, usually use cheesepaste or gre't ol' worm) and also size 2/0 for pike live/deadbaiting.

Will let you know how it goes with regards to the fishes' health and hookup improvement or not.

 

Anyone else got any definitive answer or results that they can testify to?

 

Renrag.

[Leon Roskilly]

I've been using them for both pike and perch fishing.

 

You need to adapt your technique in a numer of respects.

 

First rule is DON'T strike.

 

Just tighten the line and let the fish set the hook against the rod tip before tightening up and doing battle.

 

Striking, even just 'leaning into' the fish will pull the hook out of the fish's mouth before the tip of the hook can do it's thing by swivelling around the edge of the mouth.

 

You need to arrange things so that the fish isn't facing towards you as the hook pulls, again it will simply pop out of the mouth without engaging.

 

Ideally the fish needs to be facing away from you when the hook engages.

 

This leads to a problem with smaller pike.

 

Pike tend to clamp down on the bait so the hook cannot slide to the edge of the mouth to engage, until the mouth opens.

 

This isn't a problem with larger pike, but is for the for smaller jacks.

 

They tend to swim away from you clamped down on the bait, then as the line tightens, they are turned back towards you, letting go when facing you and the baited hook simply comes out of the mouth. (The larger fish just keep going and are not 'turned').

 

Most 'dropped runs' will be down to this, and at least saves the aggro of dealing with troublesome jacks

 

But don't leave a run too long. When this has happened to me, even if the circle has been taken right down, it will come back up the gullet again, but will sometimes find a purchase right at the back of the mouth at the top of the gullet.

 

And although 100% better than deep-hooking with trebles, it can still be difficult to manipulate the circle out until you have more experience.

 

Removing the hooks is quite different to J hooks, as the hook needs to be 'rolled-out' of the wound, which takes a bit of practice.

 

But in most cases the circle can be rolled out of the corner of a pike's mouth with your fingers without needing to open the jaw.

 

But you still need to have long-nose pliers and be confident in handling pike when the ideal hook-hold isn't achieved.

 

One thing, don't use circles if trout are a possibility.

 

The circles will nearly always engage at the back of a trout's mouth where they can't be removed with a digorger, and are a pain to roll out with forceps.

 

I've also been using them on spoons with success, but remember DON't strike!

 

 

I've been using 2/0's for pike and size 8's for perch.

 

Accidental catches of pike when perching have persuaded me that size 2's might be a friendlier size for pike.

 

I'll have more experience of that size after the coming pike season.

[Renrag39]

Wow, thats pretty comprehensive, thanks. Will first of all try it with the 6's on my old set up and see what happens. Use a diy sidewinder on it. Will be interesting to see how it goes. Still getting the hang of just leaning while using braid for pike and feedering so will give that a miss for the time being and see if I can master the circle hook on mono 1st.

I can see the obvious benefits for the hard mouthed predators but any experience of what happens with roach/bream? Or is it detrimental to them and the catch rate. I plan on giving the hooks a good month or so trial while the bites are plentiful. Except for the pike of course.

Not that many Trout on the Broads, would be a welcome visitor to my landing net though!

 

Renrag

[Newt]

I really prefer the Gamakatsu Octopus Circle hooks about all the others I've tried. Microbarbed and a really high quality hook.

 

The only problem is they are only available down to #8 so if you need smaller ones, you do need to go with another brand. I located a brand of hooks that had an almost identical shape sold for fly tying but lost the info can haven't been able to find it again.

 

All the info from Leon tallys 100% with what I've learned over about 6 years of using them. He didn't mention that they are not effective on sucker mouth fish such as carp but they aren't. They need the bony mouth ridge to function properly.

[Leon Roskilly]

I can see the obvious benefits for the hard mouthed predators but any experience of what happens with roach/bream?

 

 

I have only used them to overcome problems ie either to prevent deep-hooking or timing when to set the hook, and in the case of roach and bream I don't see any real advantage to using them, so stick with J hooks which I'm comfortable with.

 

I've used them live-baiting for bass, and will give them a go this winter when hooking whiting at distance to remain on the rig cast at distance as livebait for cod (deep-hooked whiting tend to expire too soon).

[Mark Wintle]

As both Newt and Leon are hinting at Do NOT use them on cyprinid fish i.e. carp, chub, bream, roach.

[Renrag39]

Won't bother with the size 12's unless I can find a use for them. In the meantime I'll still give the 6 and 2/0's a go, as where I fish, a big lump of cheesepaste on a 6 (instead of lobs) usually finds Eels (no chub or barbel that I know of in the lower bure and thurne and never had a bream on cheese myself) and will use deads on the 2/0 and see what happens. Might also try targeting perch with a liphooked live on a 6.

Am I missing anything else? More for the fishes sake than mine.

 

And one more thing, directed at Mark, I'm not doubting you on any level but want to confirm, do not use them on cyprinids because of lack of improvement in hookup? Or is it detrimental to their health and if so why? I have done a lot of research on this and there are many who go by what they hear rather than experience and regardless of your position, it would be nice to clarify this point regarding soft mouthed fish with experience rather than hearsay or speculation. I just want to know how careful I have to be with bait choice so if necessary I can at least reduce the risk factor to unsuitable fish.

 

Renrag

Edited August 30, 2010 by Renrag39

[Mark Wintle]

Won't bother with the size 12's unless I can find a use for them. In the meantime I'll still give the 6 and 2/0's a go, as where I fish, a big lump of cheesepaste on a 6 (instead of lobs) usually finds Eels (no chub or barbel that I know of in the lower bure and thurne and never had a bream on cheese myself) and will use deads on the 2/0 and see what happens. Might also try targeting perch with a liphooked live on a 6.

Am I missing anything else? More for the fishes sake than mine.

 

And one more thing, directed at Mark, I'm not doubting you on any level but want to confirm, do not use them on cyprinids because of lack of improvement in hookup? Or is it detrimental to their health and if so why? I have done a lot of research on this and there are many who go by what they hear rather than experience and regardless of your position, it would be nice to clarify this point regarding soft mouthed fish with experience rather than hearsay or speculation. I just want to know how careful I have to be with bait choice so if necessary I can at least reduce the risk factor to unsuitable fish.

 

Renrag

 

No improvement in hook-ups, probably the reverse. The bent hook, which resembles a circle hook in many respects, was widely banned because it was all but impossible to remove without serious mouth damage to carp. There's no need for them for roach and bream either. Mike Ladle uses circle hooks for perch and pike, and he doesn't recommend them for cyprinids. Beaked hooks have some of the advantages of circle hooks in that they are more likely to stay in than ordinary hooks but still easy to remove. I hope this answers your question. I don't use circle hooks because I have a huge range of conventional hooks available for my fine line fishing whereas I would be extremely limited with circle hook patterns if indeed I could find any at all.

[Renrag39]

Thanks for the fast reply, it's much appreciated. Will probably never use the 12's but on the flip side I will not be too worried about bait on the 6's. Hopefully, if a bream or other large cyprinid DOES take the bait, the hook wont get purchase and therefore, not damage the fish but if it does, I won't be spending much time getting out the hook. If it doesn't come easily then it'll just have to be left in, shouldn't do too much long term harm I shouldn't think. Could even quickly cut the hook with snips if its reachable. All the barbs will be crushed so hopefully aid removal regardless of species.

I think its a fairly balanced approach, we'll see how things pan out. Just waiting for the post now!

 

Renrag.

[Newt]

Renrag - I can't see that a circle hook is harmful to cyprinids at all and as noted, the suggestion to not use them is based on the very poor hook-up ratio with that sort of fish.

 

If you have a close look at an octopus circle hook, you will notice the inturned portion of the point. With that design, the hook will basically slide along a smooth surface but will rotate itself into a hookset when it encounters a small, solid ridge. The hook will, for instance, usually slide across a log but will hook itself on a twig. It will also usually slide along a fish's gut or throat without taking a hold but will set itself in the bony mouth ridge.