stevieg

Could you possibly do a translation of that waffle for us earthlings..... Ps....given all that you have told us before, and the fact that the big driver for lobster poulation is good habitat, why are there any lobsters and crabs on the scallop grounds, something isn't adding up here, you seem to managing to confuse yourself.....again..... Pps....you are assuming that I am against the emergency closure, you shouldn't be so sure that I am, I may well fully agree with it who knows.....

Another fascinating post paul. Firstly I have no issues with anglers, I am a very keen angler, there is no pop at anglers. What does annoy me is hypocrisy. You constantly whine about threats to fish in your locality, yet the biggest threat to fish in your locality is clearly you and your practice of killing industrial quantities of fish at every opportunity......it does not get any more hypocritical than that. If you can't see that then this is an issue for you and nobody else, remember that mirror that we touched on before. To quote UK Governments formal position on angler take, specifically Cod and Bass - Our surveys also confirm what has been found elsewhere in Europe and overseas – that sea anglers can catch a significant amount of fish. “Surely”, you say “we catch tiny amounts compared to a trawler or a netter”. A bit of simple maths shows that if a million anglers catch just 1kg of fish each year, it adds up to 1000 tonnes, which is a lot of fish. Have you not spent the last god knows how long telling us that the scallpers were destroying everything, yet here you are telling us that they are still catching large numbers of lobster and filling the dredges with crabs, it's laughable Paul, absolutely laughable. Everyones locality is unique, it's not just yours. The Whitby Gazette article I can find is the same old same old, someone focusing on their own interests, we all do it nothing new there.

I would have thought 3 out of 6 quite an average but hey ho It already is outlawed in large areas of the coast down there. Something strikes me as a bit odd, lobster and crab fisheries are still booming down there (new potting boat for there last week I think it was) despite all this "seabed destruction" and lobsters and crabs being caught (or destroyed) in "massive numbers" (you would need to translate what you mean there) that you constantly waffle on about, how does that work? Ps...has it dawned on you yet your own endlessly taking industrial quantities of Cod time bomb, tick tock tick tock

I was having a chuckle earlier, speaking to one of my mates who was off your area for the first time in a while last week....he texted the six local potters he usually contacts to see where their pots were and what was what - 3 were as they usually were, the other 3 are no longer potting, they have bought scallopers instead, which is somewhat ironic given all that you have told us

Given ALL that you have told us on this very thread, do you see any irony at all in this? And yes I do agree that not only is the quota system mad, the vast majority of marine mismanagement is also completely bonkers.

I suspect that you are making even less sense than normal with that one, which is no mean feat... I have interests in many aquatic pies, and a real passion for all things salty, just as I have for the last 47 years ever since my first paddle in the sea....

Don't like angling boats.....mmm.....thinks he who has at times had in exess of £100Ks worth of angling boats sitting on his marina berth, me and angling boats are just dandy. Boat angling is my life long passion and I have all the tools for the job, don't you be worrying yourself about that. Ps....having a look at your website, who builds "Lockin 33s" boats, I have heard of "Lochin 33s" (a mate has one) but never "Lockin 33s", are they British built, they look very similar to Lochins? As for positivity, forgive me for pointing out the obvious but the only negativity that I see on the subject is coming from you.

Do you have anything to back your nonsense highlighted above up paul, or is it the same old same old, making it up as you go along? I shudder to think of the amount of holes that there must be in your feet, almost all self blown On another note, why does everyone who fishes with you have such huge hands, it's an interesting genetic anomaly seen in image after image of those very dead cod aboard your boat

Heartening to hear that there are still cod on the ground paul, confusing but heartening none the less. I am well aware where fish comes from, but if you advertise something as "fresh Whitby cod" then it pretty much has to be in that ball park. I was intrigued where it came from as (official) Whitby Cod landings are miniscule, official fish landings are fully quantified and freely available month by month, method by method, port by port, however I do understand your evasiveness on this one, panic not. I understand very well how quota works, for example quota for off Whitby (4b) would be completely useless for vessels working off Norway (Norwegian Waters), fish quota is ICES area specific, you can't just use it anywhere. What is disturbing is that these poor "persecuted" under 10s are making huge profits from the scurge of the fishing industry, quota trading. Your trawler owner above has little in common as he is using his bought in quota to keep his own boats afloat wheras the other example of the under 10s you cite is pure profiteering at the expense of working fishermen, something that quota strapped under 10s are eternally unhappy about, which is interesting and possibly something that needs highlighted as uber-hypocrisy is not a nice thing.

Paul, quota is not "given" to under 10s, they fish from a central pool administered by the MMO, it is a completely different set up to sectoral over 10s where the POs administer the quotas and they can be bought, sold, and traded. Are you saying that these potters are also quota barons, skinning alive those who are actually catching the fish by forcing them to pay up to £1800 per tonne to lease the potters cod quota? If small scallop boats are out actually working, why should potters not also be out dodging beside their gear keeping an eye on what's what at the same time, what is the difference? Scallopers could only work 5 aside inside 6 miles at the time so they are clearly pretty small vessels we are talking about.....or was your potter mate far too busy spending more time with his quota baron gains to really care enough about his gear? Ps....what about all these ""fresh Whitby Cod", you seem to have side stepped that one, where are they coming from given that official landing figures would barely keep a chip shop going for a night?

All sounds good, does he use some of those industrial quantities of fish that you are killing on a regular basis or is that a no go, I see him advertising fresh Whitby cod yet I think you said somewhere that (official) cod landings were miniscule, where does he source all that "fresh Whitby Cod" from, Button Moon? So is it under 10 quota or not? Yip that certainly is crazy, no idea how it works as you claim but the real conversion factors for cod are - Species Gutted Gutted and headed Fillets COD 1.17 1.7 2.6 So your 1 tonne of quota would let you land 0.854 tonnes of gutted cod, I have no idea where your 0.2 tonnes comes in. Don't go spitting the dummy, but are you just making this waffle up as you go along? This is starting to sound really bad Paul, most under 10s are unhappy that they do not have enough quota often blaming over 10s and quota leasers for this situation - yet here you tell us that "practically all the potting boats" are leasing out their fish quota (I still have no idea under 10s can do that but anyway we will take your word for it for now). If I was you I am not sure that I would be broadcasting this in the public domain, it blows a real hole in the perception of your local potters getting the rough end of any stick, I can't imagine that they would thank you for doing so. I have no idea what happened there but I am eternally bewildered as to why these guys are not there watching over there pots if they have such concerns, I certainly would be.

Play nice Barry, paul is caught in a bit of a dilemma here. It seems that he directly benefits from the scallop industry, the poor devil must have a heck of a daily battle with his conscience, little wonder he gets confuddled...... http://whitbyfishmonger.co.uk/2013/09/fresh-scottish-xxl-king-scallops-20-off/ http://whitbyfishmonger.co.uk/2012/01/gvs-whitby-fishmonger-now-president-of-whitby-charter-skippers-association/

Interesting stuff Paul, I know little about under 10s tbh, do you have a link to show this leasing out is doable by individuals and has been for years?

Not my place to correct anything paul, you claimed that 95% of the Whitby under 10s were leasing their cod quota to the "big boys". My understanding is that under 10s, in Whitby or wherever, can't lease their quota out anywhere, to the "big boys", to the tooth fairy, or wherever. They can lease quota in from POs but not lease it out as far as I am aware. I am unaware of it being doable whether for payment or from the goodness of their hearts, but as I said I am happy for you to show me where or how, it is not a sector that I know a lot about. A bit about it here - https://www.gov.uk/manage-and-lease-fishing-quota

Is the highlighted part above correct paul? I understood that under 10s could lease quota in (only from POs) but not lease quota out, happy for you to show me where I have this wrong?

He bought a scallop dredger and is now sustainably harvesting the seabed 6.00000001 miles off the Yorkshire Coast Ps.....who is going to take paul for a walk on the wild side regarding the number of Cod that creels catch.....

Google is interesting Paul, it brings up years of your claims and concerns despite all of your protestations to the contrary. I have no idea if it is a mistake or not, although history suggests that knee jerk reactions are rarely as effective as well thought out proactive actions, time will tell. I am a long term kinda guy, short termism does little for me.

Now now Paul, put the dummy back in, these debates are always enlightening.....and as always google is your friend regarding who said what pretty much anywhere at any time, these are very bad times to try and mislead any forum I amusingly remember debates on the Whitby forum not too long ago regarding marine protection where in between the embarrassing nonsense celebration turned to despair when someone pointed out reality and it dawned on people that it could ultimately affect everyone, including anglers. Nothing has changed in that respect apart from a large part of the positive economic benefit argument has now been removed from the equation making any potential implementation much easier.

I am a bit confused here Paul, scallop dredging has been going on in the area for decades, it's nothing new. The big driver in effort increase there nowadays is regulation change, specifically Area 7 days at sea, and the incredible increase in pots in the area which has created conflict, but to suggest that scalloping is a new thing or on new grounds is absurd. Scallop ground is scallop ground it is what it is, they are not in viable quantities just anywhere and to the best of my knowledge pretty much all viable grounds down there have been known for long enough. Scallop vessels were sold to fishermen down that area going on 20 years back, I know because some of my mates did the selling. It is a long time since I have heard so many weird and wonderful theories coming from one person, it's bizarre. The real threat to cod etc in your area is from you taking industrial quantities of breeding fish on a daily basis, if the stock is at risk for whatever reason then you yourself need to have a long hard look at yourself in the mirror, you are the guy killing industrial quantities of prime breeding stock on a daily basis, 500,000 eggs per KG of body weight is a shed load of impact. You say above that you are not whining about cod in decline, is there an imposter pretending to be you in this article for example - An interesting one given your catch reports this summer. When I go boat angling we head for bang on the historical scallop grounds, sometimes a day after we have worked them on the commercial boat for the 5th day on the trot. Without hopefully sounding bumptious I do not know any private boat who catches more fish per day in our locality than we do on my toy boat, jeez we sometimes catch scallops on hooks at times, mackerel fillet being the most effective bait by miles, if I was you I would be heading to where these guys have been ;-)

I wouldn't like it at all, it's dire. If I was these guys I would be raging as the closure increases scallop effort where they are and it would be reasonable to regard inside 6 as the exclusive potting area now and they should not be anywhere else, you can't really have it all ways. One thing I do know, if I had thousands of pounds worth of gear on the seabed and had concerns I or someone else would be on scene 24/7 making people fully aware that it was there and keeping them clear rather than placing the onus on othersto avoid them. There are plenty of cowboys in the potting world, pot on pot conflict is a far bigger issue than conflict with other sectors will ever be in many areas, it's the great unspoken, after the unbelievable explosion in potting gear anyway. We had potters up the West Coast demanding a weekend ban on everyone not too long ago, fine says we, you bring all your pots ashore at weekends and stop fishing as well then, and why not....not sure why but they kinda went off the idea of a weekend ban just about then

Did you respond to the Formal Scotgov Scallop consultation Paul, were you one of the 1500 who did so?

What are your mates who work outside 6 saying paul, surely it must be their worst nightmare, which will eventually create huge spatial issues for those inside 6 as well?

Paul you clearly know less than nothing about me. Where have I ever "complained many times about anglers"?? I complain about hypoctites and point out how naive they are frequently and often, but anglers, I think not. One thing that I definitely am as a realist, I would not embarrass myself by being otherwise, the days of kidology are long gone, you will be found out in 5 minutes flat as you are discovering. I am the most open minded individual that I know. I have been there and done that with marine protection and marine management from all sides of the fence for decades, possibly before you knew they had been invented. I have in some years spent more than six figures pursuing my passtime of sea angling. I have angling equipment that will be all but on a value par with your charter boat, so don't you worry yourself about me as an angler as well as a commercial fisherman. Just to illustrate how dumb and deluded your arguments are - Sustainability is a whole stock designation, it does not relate to individual activities but relies on the entire stock being fished sustainably by everyone. As soon as one stakeholder on that stock is deemed to be fishing unsustainably by default every stakeholder on that stock is also deemed to be fishing unsustainably. Cod are still under a formal EU recovery scheme. The level of impact matters not a jot, so every time that you whine cod etc are in trouble you are handing out a golden bullet to shoot yourself in the foot. The official UK Government position taken from SA2012- Our surveys also confirm what has been found elsewhere in Europe and overseas – that sea anglers can catch a significant amount of fish. “Surely”, you say “we catch tiny amounts compared to a trawler or a netter”. A bit of simple maths shows that if a million anglers catch just 1kg of fish each year, it adds up to 1000 tonnes, which is a lot of fish. UK RSA Cod take is obviously huge, RSA Cod take in your area is at best significant, with you personally being a major player in that take. Why anyone dependant on the current situation continuing would wish to highlight that these very same stocks are in danger is pretty novel, you are a marine managers wet dream, sliding right into the cesspit. I will repeat again, I have no issue with anyone taking what they want as I see no stock issue. You see and claim there to be stock issues, how can you live with further depleting this stock on an almost daily basis?

I am starting to become embarrassed for you Paul, is that a serious post from an even semi-educated adult?

By jingos you are struggling big time here with your own conservation credentials Paul. Big cod are the recruitment drivers not undersize ones, what an incredibly strange justification to attempt. Ps...returning fish to the sea dead or alive is regarded as discarding, your post makes little sense in this respect. This is why C&R angling was deemed an "extractive activity" and is unacceptable in some designations of MCZ protection. Are we safe to assume that you are indeed still regularly killing large amounts of Cod, Ling etc, those very same fish that you are eternally whining are in trouble? I have no issue with it as I see no stock issue. You however are promoting stock issues, how does that on one hand fit with what you may well be practicing on the other hand, although you do seem to be trying hard to avoid the question it is pointing in the direction of you still killing big numbers of these same fish. I have been there done that, filled the boat and watched the gulls feed on the floaters when space became an issue...but as I see no issue with the stock I could look at myself in the mirror no problem - On the scallop point, if they are indeed breaking the law then they deserve to be caught and suitably punished, no issue from me there, although I am rather surprised that they could get away with this given the VMS system. I assume that you will have taken your concerns up with the IFCA Chair (not the CFO if you hold him in such low regard), and what did they say about it?