AndyMc

Stopo Thats so funny. I thought for a moment that you actually knew what you were talking about until i quickly realised that you've simply just cut and copied the SSSI Citation. trust me to notice ... with MSc Ecology background! Te he. http://www.english-nature.org.uk/citation/...oto/1003469.pdf

Barry, onto the topic. Yes, there will be a chnage at the lake. But Christ I am happy to fish a lot worse than that. it is clear that it goes ACROSS (that is the first thing ...not through) only PART (i.e. not straight though) of the lake. I am yet to understand how it goes through the other lakes that Stoppo says? Will it impact on the fish? I 100% doubt it!

Yes, Barry it is exactly what I stated in my very first email on this site. The impacts stated by the "Stop HS2 Save Savay" are far far from the truth. However, this approach falls nicely in-line with most of the other stuff that comes from the wider stop HS2 lobby groups ...much of what they say is far from the truth. This is how these groups try to drum up their support to satisfy their own ends. Lol By giving out the wrong information, making wild claims on potential impacts, THEY are actually causing the blight and untold concern to local people. Fun though ..isn't it? Te he! Tight lines and bendy rods. A

Stoppo regarding the hs2 provided photo visualisation of the viaduct. can you describe your comment about the "viaduct going smack through the middle of Pit2, Harefield. (Harrow AS) cross the Grand Union, then straight through Savay Lake". Savay Lake is the second lake the viaduct goes over from the bottom of the image moving upwards. The viaduct clearly goes over the top section of the lake rather through the middle ...as i have already said

Fact sheet at: http://highspeedrail.dft.gov.uk/sites/high...am-amersham.pdf

Stoppo The actual details of the proposal relating to Savay Lake are on the HS2 website. The site contains FACT SHEETS relating to each section of the route. Again, the 75 m wide viaduct you might prefer to see at the location, which proportions would have a dramatic impact on the lake, is clearly not what HS2 plan to do. I prefer HS2's options. The focus on your attention at this location should raise above the scenario for the lake but be concerned with the local homes, the SSSI and the AONB. It is these issues that the engineers are trying to work around.

Hey Stoppo Looks like the Nimby rail package 2 (RP2) alternative is again in the firing line. Critics of RP2 are stating that the under estimated costs of undertaking this scheme are - which have now doubled - make hs2 appear even better value than previously believed. The West Coast Main Line was upgraded at a cost of £8.9bn (or £9.6bn depending upon exactly which work you include in the project) between 1998 and 2009. When completed it was four years late and three times over the original £2.8bn budget. This is one of the most important factors driving the decision to invest in HS2. Some HS2 opponents claim a further £3.6bn could be spent on a series of flyovers and bypasses (including a 21 km cut-off through open country in Staffordshire ironically) but these studies focus only on the impact on inter-city trains, but do not examine the severe capacity concerns over commuter services into Euston, Birmingham and Manchester. Obviously any further upgrade of WCML would entail huge disruption to rail services (especially at weekends) and runs the risk of the kind of overspend witnessed last time. Serious doubts also must be expressed about exactly how many trains per hour can be squeezed along a railway at 125 mile/h when that railway dates from the 1840s; to match HS2 capacity, inter-city trains would run at 3 min headways, something even the more reliable Tube lines often struggles to match. RP2 - ANOTHER DEAD WHITE ELEPHANT

Renowned transport expert, Professor Begg, fully backs hs2 proposals in a report launched by the british Chambers of Commerce: "Our ability to move goods and services around the country and doing business online, is crucial to our economic vitality, particularly in stimulating regional economies". The Chairman of the Chamber said "Cities in the North West are desperate for it to reach their area because they know high speed rail will have a major impact on helping to break down regional divides and bring our country together". Info on the strong business case for HS2 here: http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/674...e-for-hs2.thtml

i'm not sure i can put a lot of weight to what that lots says anymore. It certainly is fun though: http://www.derbyrailforum.org.uk/cms/187/

I wouldn't say it was recent. But it certainly is the result of major extraction and major damage to this area. It must have been a right eye sore at the time of working. Its funny that most of the lakes we all fish are the result of some previous damage. It wouldn't suprise me if the construction of HS2 results in the creation some fishing havens for the future too.

Nice one mate. SAY YES TO HS2

Spot on. And that's only part of it my dear friend. Read on: "Chamber backs Core City support for HS2 Consultation Nottingham is one of 11 of the UK's most economically-important cities to come out in strong support of High Speed Two, the first phase of developing a High Speed Rail network for the UK. The collective view is that there is significant evidence that HSR will create jobs, economic growth and reduce carbon emissions in the long term. Nottingham has joined England's other Core Cities (Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle and Sheffield), together with Cardiff, Edinburgh and Glasgow in releasing a joint position statement signed by the Leaders of the 11 city authorities and senior business figures, setting out the economic and environmental case for a full High Speed Rail network for the UK. Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire Chamber of Commerce Chief Executive George Cowcher signed the document on behalf of the private sector in Nottingham. The 11 cities believe HS2 is a cross-party agenda and are calling for national and local support from communities and businesses. The first phase runs between London Euston and the West Midlands, but the view of the core cities is that the country will only reap the economic and environmental benefits of HSR if the full proposed national network is developed. The Chamber estimates that an East Midlands spur of the High Speed Rail network could bring economic benefits of more than £3.8n to the region. Meanwhile, Chamber research has found that 97% of local businesses think the local economy would benefit from plans to bring the network to the region, while 88% of firms are in favour of a UK-wide High-Speed Rail network. Mr Cowcher said: "The Chamber has long campaigned for a comprehensive High-Speed Rail network which services the East Midlands and is delighted to add its full support to this new Core Cities statement. "Clearly, we need good transport links here in the region and the Chamber feels that High Speed Rail will be the best way of connecting businesses in Nottinghamshire with London, other key UK cities and Europe". Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. Im not sure what planet these 'no to HS2' NIMBYS are on.

Looks like Milton keynes ...neighbouring county to Buckinghamshire ... is now also fully supporting proposals. That's a kick in the teeth for the load minority in Bucks. Perhaps common sense will win through in the end. Read on: Published on Wednesday 13 April 2011 16:41 PROTESTORS with placards and signs descended on Milton Keynes Central station on Friday to oppose plans for the High Speed Rail Link HS2. The protest was organised by the South Northants Action Group with the aim of warning commuters of the negative aspects of having a new high speed rail link between London and Birmingham. They feel that putting in the extra high speed platforms would mean rebuilding Euston, moving all the platforms round and changing the configuration of the tracks outside the station. They also feel that there will be fewer long distance trains from the city and no high speed rail station in Milton Keynes either. But city MPs claim commuters are set to benefit from the new high speed link between London and Birmingham. And research has shown that the new high speed rail line could nearly double the number of trains from the city to London – which is welcome news for commuters. Network Rail has projected that the West Coast Main Line will reach full capacity by 2024 and the first phase of HS2, from London to the West Midlands, would free up space for a significant increase in commuter, regional and freight services. MP for Milton Keynes North, Mark Lancaster, said: “This research is fantastic news for the commuters of Milton Keynes, who literally cannot stand having to stand for their journey to work every single day, while paying thousands of pounds for the privilege. “It is great to see the figures reinforcing what we have been told about HS2. It’s about time Milton Keynes got a better deal but equally the route itself needs to be the right one for the country.” Transport secretary Philip Hammond singled out Milton Keynes as the ultimate beneficiary of such a scheme. He said: “Our proposed new high speed rail network would free up a huge amount of space on current railways for more trains to operate. “Passengers in some towns like Milton Keynes could see a near doubling in the number of trains from their station to London because of HS2.”

Great news and a great link. An even louder voice supporting moves to using high speed rail.

And so far we british have only about 72 miles of it. Hardly a snip compared to most other countries. We have a lot of catching up to do. I hear that Australia are making plans to create further high speed train lines as they see the sense in investing in alternative means of travel for the future. KOALA TEA!

It isnt a Eurostar Service at all. What sort of stupid comparison is that? Its about linking up Britain - not about nipping over to Paris for a couple bottles of wine and some cheap fags. RP2 has been throughly dismissed already. Keep up man! Im happy to copy and paste loads of stuff on this if you really want me to. Rumour has it that one of the people preparing that report is themselves a railway consultant ...who has made their fortune working on schemes that have had an impact of others. Oh dear. It just also happens that the hs2 proposals go through that person's garden! Oh very dear! Oops! The project is about future proofing the country. It is addressing future demands and future capacity issues with capacity. Stop comparing it to todays issues. Its about future capacity and the fact that we can no longer rely on our current transport schemes and modes of transport. We really are a selfish lot!! I read the other day that the m25 has a road survey done back in 2008(ish). There were over 195,000 cars counted alone in one stretch in just one day!!! Come on get real. Are you proposing we build more roads? Invest in cars? The scheme isnt about me or you now. It isnt about people now ... its about issues of the future. It isnt about spending money now ...in a down turn. The money will be invested from future money if the proposal goes ahead - in the future. The scheme doesnt start for bloody years! IN FACT ...NOT FULLY COMPLETE UNTIL 2033! This is about a network linking the country's major cities. Look at how many northern cities support the proposal for God's sake. It is about investment and major regeneration. How is the BAN FISHING AT CEMEX WATERS IF YOU REALLY WANT TO MAKE A STATEMENT ABOUT HS2 going? Tight lines ...and bendy rods.

This says it all too:: April 13, 2011 The Campaign for High Speed Rail today condemned plans by Lord (Simon) Wolfson, a key mover in the opposition to high-speed rail, for a new motorway linking the southern cities of Cambridge and Oxford, as well as emergency measures to create a new “tech city” on nearby agricultural land. Professor David Begg, Director of the Campaign for High Speed Rail, said: “Lord Wolfson – the leader of the campaign against high-speed rail – has just given away the real agenda of those who oppose the project. They have no interest in regenerating our great Northern cities. They just want better motorways for the prosperous south so that, for instance, professors and businesspeople can shuttle between two prosperous university towns more quickly.” Miranda Barker, Managing Director of Allan Environmental Solutions in Manchester, said: “As a mother living in the North, I am concerned for the future of my young son. Lord Wolfson and his ilk clearly don’t understand the challenges of people living outside Westminster. My child should not have to move out of the region to find jobs because those in power forgot to invest in the futures of the British people living outside of the South East.” Deborah Smith, Solihull resident and Director of Hands Up For High Speed 2, said: “It is farcical that Simon Wolfson is calling for a new city in the South, when Britain has existing cities with huge potential in desperate need of investment. Local environmental groups are going to be up in arms about such a plan that will concrete large tracts of beautiful countryside. I would urge politicians from all parties to reject the fanciful and dangerous plans of Lord Wolfson for what they really are – ideologically-driven proposals with no concern for regenerating economies elsewhere.” Professor David Begg added: “Ironically, Lord Wolfson’s motorway would be much more damaging for the countryside, taking up more than double the space of a railway line as well as grabbing green-field land for a new city. London has had a huge amount of investment in recent years with projects like the Tube upgrade, Thameslink and Crossrail receiving more than £20 billion of funding. We desperately need to rebalance our economy and breathe new life into some of our northern cities. Plans for more roads for rich people would do neither.” Lord Wolfson’s article ‘Silicon Valley? Britain can have a brain belt’, in today’s Timescan be accessed here (£).

Well I least we now have a link to a real visualisation done by HS2. So thanks for getting that correct ...at least you've got something correct. What i said in my comment previously was that the bridge shown on in the article on the Korda website is fantasy based on what is basically a 75m road bridge. You also describe 75m width in your text. You need to correct this as it is completely untrue. If you read the information provided by HS2 you will see that it will indeed need a very large bit of landtake for construction. So your engineering friend is correct. But the proposed location for this is next to the m25. Im with barry on this one. there is a lot of talk about blight but very little evidence for it Im afraid

Hi I understand that the maximum width specification for the Denham viaduct, including access requirements for maintenance etc, is a maximum 15-16m wide ... not 75m as you quote above. That is some difference. On that basis ... I had a brace of 60s at the weekend!!!!?

Hi barry. Are we the only people who think like this? If so, that doesn't make me proud to be an angler This HS2 route proposed is about 1km from my house and yet Im all for it. I live nowhere near any proposed station and yet Im still all for for it. Come on guys put some forward a balanced argument. The visualisation I have seen of the viaduct is not the "make it up as you go along" visual shown in the article available on the Korda website. This probably created by someone who has a basic grasp of photoshop and a graphic design package. Shame on you naughty Korda. But doesnt stop me wanting your new indicators! Snigger! The visual I've seen is the one prepared by HS2 engineers to give an indication of how it might look. Guys, I'm fine with decent argument ...but lets have complaints based on fact and reality. Cheers, Get on the SAY YES TO HS2 website and sign that petition. SAYING NO IS NOT AN OPTION.

Yes Barry. I've also just read that the project will cost £32b but this will ONLY come from funds needed over the period of construction until 2033. So it is not using money of today. Seems logical during a time or recession to start to look 'future proofed' projects of this type and i see lots of benefits for the northern cities due to direct regeneration. It will create over £44b in terms of regeneration, over £17b from ticket sales and create around 30,000 new jobs directly and indirectly in addition to the 8000-9000 jobs needed for construction. Birmingham to London in just 49 mins! That makes the Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds travel timings the same as the current commuter belt for London. Time to invest in property around the proposed northern stations mate. Manchester to Paris in less than 4 hours! Christ, I could leave the midlands in the mid morning and be sitting behind rods in the middle of peaceful France by the middle of the afternoon! Lets just hope that like other infrastructure building of this kind it creates loads of lakes and pons .... lots of future Savays , A1 Pits, Linear etc for my current 8 year old to enjoy.

Yes, I hear what you say. I’m a addicted keen carp angler and have been for over 20 years. However, I’m also a supporter of the environment. I believe we need to think about our current scenario and invest in a sustainable transport infrastructure for the UK’s future. I do not believe that saying no to such a proposal is an option for us. DO NOTHING IS NOT AN OPTION. If we say no we need to come up with an alternative that is feasible and realistic. I’m not sure there is one. We can no longer create roads like the M40, M1 and the M25 … the biggest car park in Europe! What do you want …new airports and runways? NEARLY ALL of the lakes that we fish are there as a DIRECT result of previous damage caused previous environments and local peoples lives. They are there as a result of major road and rail building schemes such as the M25, M40, M1, A1M …and so on. You cannot build these features on this scale snd not make impact. FACT. Most of the lakes I fish still remain directly next to major roads and railways, pylons ..you name it. In fact there are many carp meccas with such features in the uk. Including a lot of famous French and European venues (look at the road bridge across St Cassien …looks good to me!) Savay is tight up against the busy Chiltern Railway Line with regular trains passing the lake on a raised embankment. It is within easy hearing distance of the M25. But, do such features stop us wanting to pack in our jobs and be on the banks of these venues for every day of lives? NO. Will it stop us flocking to them to fish? NO. I saw the proposed visual for the bridge at Savay the other day. It goes high across the lake towards one end. So, not across the middle. It will not divide the lake up. Nor will the construction result in any need to drain any of these lakes. It will not involve pouring wet concrete and all those other made up stories I here. I do not agree with suggestions that it will impact the famous carp population in the lake in the slightest. However, I totally agree it will be a visual intrusion and additional noise for those that are lucky enough to get to fish there. But I have a feeling that the feature will become part of the lakes character and many trophy shots will be posed with the famous “Savay viaduct” as a chosen backdrop Id like to point out is how many of us value and fish CEMEX owned fisheries. ARE WE SO STUPID THAT WE DO NOT DO KNOW WHAT CEMEX DO? Please visit there website. They are one of the largest companies in the world supplying road and railway construction material. They build high quality international grade concrete railway sleepers. Ask yourself which major company supplied the vast amounts of material to build the HS1 (the High Speed Eurostar Rail) line through Kent)? So. Why are we running a partition through the Cemex fishing website to STOP HS2? Doesn’t this make us look a bit stupid? Do we not think that CEMEX plan to gain vast supplies and income from this major rail construction? And how many of us wrote in and complained about the proposals for HS1 back when it was going to be built? Probably NONE. Why not “put our money were our mouths are” and stop acting like selfish NIMBYS. If you really want to show your support AGAINST HS2 well stop fishing CEMEX waters. Now … lets see how many of us fishing at Cemex lakes such as Yateley and Wraysbury are really willing to do that!! As they say “Actions speak louder than words”. Well that’s my rant over … I’m off to my favourite lake in hope of a 40. Fingers crossed I’ll get the swim on the road bank right under the busy road bridge as that’s were those lumps will be !