JB

I went to the DEFRA ‘Vision’ meeting in Scarborough last week with Slackline and Darlek. Whitby anglers were only represented by us. I was very disappointed in DEFRA’s attitude and even more disappointed in the lack of grasp and understanding DEFRA has of both the commercial and recreational sectors. If I were to sum up the meeting, the ‘vision' part applies to DEFRA’s vision of continued employment for the next twenty years. JB

Well, we seem to have found a subject that quite a lot of us agree upon. Does anyone on this part of the forum actually believe that our government, via DEFRA, gives a toss about fish stocks or anyone who fishes? JB

It is only my opinion, but I believe we no longer belong to a democracy, we belong to the EU. JB

It seems we may be at cross purposes. This thread of Stavey’s is a subject that is close to my heart. Anyone who has read any of my previous posts, and/or the threads I have started, will know that I have always advocated that everyone who fishes should get together and fight the common enemy - our government and the EU. Unfortunately, many of my posts have not been received favourably. Hoping that opinions may have been changed with recent events, and that posters may now have less confidence in our fisheries management system, I followed this thread with great interest - until post six. And then the topic completely changed. Maybe I went off half-cocked when commercial fishermen were being called for doing something that I had done for many years. I think the posts 6 and 7 should have gone into another thread which I have not been following. Michele often tells me I should keep up and should know when she is going to change the subject. I guess the same applies with this forum. Anyway, apologies if I have upset anyone. JB

Unless I am missing something, this is yet another ill-informed cheap shot at commercial fishermen. For many years I successfully fished pots and caught my own pot bait with a small trawl which I entirely made myself. I caught my own bait because it greatly out-fished other baits available at the time. The bait we used to catch was mostly plaice, but there was also a small percentage of other fish like sand dabs, flounder and Dover soles. The latter added to my overall income. I have always welcomed informed opinions. However, on a thread trying to look for common ground between RSA and commercials, malicious attitudes seem to me to be counter-productive. JB

Hi Nick, You and I have a similar philosophy; I also simply choose not to get involved any more than I can help with discussions on here with the RSA stirrers. JB

I believe this to be a very correct statement. I also believe that DEFRA has already decided what will happen and what their minimum requirements are going to be. Anything above their minimum requirements will be a bonus to them. It is up to RSA to fight DEFRA down to their minimum requirements. Unfortunately, this is just a small battle. Now that RSA are considered stakeholders the war will go on and on and on. I know hindsight is a great thing. However, if not now, then certainly in the future, the fact that RSA should have used anonymity and hoped not to be noticed will be much debated. JB

“tis just tha nature of civil servants” It is also the nature of civil servants to impose blanket rules on extremely complicated and diverse practices. This is exactly what they did - and are still doing - with commercial fishing. A 2,000 horsepower beam trawler, towing ten tons of chain along the sea bed at 8 knots, is looked at in the same way as a small boat working 400 hooks on a long line. This is one of the many contributory reasons for the monumental lash-up we are all facing today. JB

Good morning Peter, You have made me laugh on this rainy morning. Hopefully they will use the EU-directive condoms. JB

The condom thing was an EU directive. Maybe the EU politicians assumed that commercial fishermen had the same need for recreational activities while at sea as they would have. A case of ‘any port in a storm’? JB

Hi Steve, It’s déjà vu. I’ve already been down this road once before. I got out of commercial fishing because I had no confidence in the management strategy of the UK government. Having destroyed most of the commercial fishing industry and disrupted and or disabled the rest, our government is looking for new prey. It seems RSA is now in their sights. UK Fisheries management is wholly about administration and nothing to do with fish stocks. JB

Whether or not RSA reps and commercial reps would ever wish to form an alliance is, as you say, debatable. However, at this crucial time the last thing RSAs should be doing is cultivating enemies. JB

Hi Steve, I am glad that at least a few RSA are now realising that DEFRA is the nemesis of all who fish. Unfortunately, as you say, the ‘catching sectors reps’ will be allowed to comment on this issue. They are experienced, having been involved in this political game for thirty-odd years now. And whereas once they had no axe to grind against RSAs, and an alliance may have been feasible, this may no longer be the case. Due to recent events, like petitions against them and, to an extent, the writings of anti-commercials on this very forum - which clearly is being monitored - the catching sector may now be classing RSAs in the same group as ‘The Greens’ and DEFRA. It’s no longer anything to do with conservation. It’s all become a political game and as far as DEFRA is concerned, it’s all about creating jobs for the boys. JB

When will RSA realise this? DEFRA are one of RSAs real enemies. When will the penny finally drop? JB

Hi Barry, The strange thing is that when anyone touches on the real reason the fishing is in such a mess, everyone goes quiet or changes the subject. JB

Hi John, Maybe this alleged ex-commercial fisherman came from the same stable as “Dogger Bank German Bight” and “Billy Bongo”, to name but a few. JB

Iceland and Norway didn’t let such triviality’s get in their way when they declared their 200 mile limits. But then again their politicians have balls. We don’t have a common oil policy or a common gas policy. So why do we need a common fisheries policy? JB

Hi Steve, Regarding fishing and probably most other things, since we entered Europe it has been strict rules for us and few or no rules for them. My pet hate is our politicians treating the people of this country like idiots. Having been involved in many types of fishing since the sixties I feel confident that I know a little about it. But still the lying scumbag politicians try to pull the wool over the eyes of anyone who fishes. I assume this policy applies to every other industry. Give me a man who gives me respect by telling the truth and doesn’t treat me like an idiot and I will vote for him irrespective of his political affiliations. JB

“Local Lib Dems Say They Know The Cause Of Fish Stock Decline” If this heading is a quote, it is one hell of a sweeping statement and insulting to anyone who has genuine knowledge of the fishing industry. To start with, the decline of fish stocks must be put down to a combination of many reasons and altering just one of these reasons is hardly guaranteed to put things right. If trawling is to be blamed (and I have never been a fan of certain types of trawling) what type of the many different methods is to be banned? The Lib Dems are probably like most forms of politicians and want all people and all things to fit neatly into a few boxes chosen by them. In my opinion, the only sweeping statement that would cover the decline in fish stocks is bad management and a lack of concern for, or a trade off on, our fish stocks. Good management may have seen a strict trawling restriction thirty years ago. Again in my opinion, the Lib Dems and every other political party have as much understanding of commercial fishing - but considerably less concern about it - as the voters they are trying to catch by making such ridiculous statements as the one in this heading. JB

This has always been the case and, in my opinion, would still be the case, whether there was a golden mile or a golden six miles. In my opinion, sea and fresh water licences make a poor comparison. To my knowledge, in the fresh waters of the UK there is no major commercial fishery to contend with. Only the anglers have to be pleased. I am sure I will be corrected if I’m wrong, but I don’t think that the EU has the last word in the control of fresh water angling. JB

I hate to rain on anyone’s parade, but the idea that the monies collected from a compulsory RSA sea licensing scheme would be used for the benefit of RSAs is somewhat naïve. And the idea that RSAs can dictate to the government exactly what to spend the licence revenue on, is taking naivety to its extreme limits. It is exactly like telling our government not to spend our tax money on wars but to spend it on the NHS. There is no way it is going to happen. However, as Challenge suggests, everything is for sale; and as I have said before, if the UK sea anglers joined forces, they could buy up a large section of the British commercial fishing industry for the cost of a new rod, reel and line for each of them. If Manchester United can do it, so can anyone else. All you need is money. I believe something on these lines has already been done in Australia. I can only see one problem with this idea and it is that, like the commercial fishermen, you would have to continually lobby the government not to give your quota away to other EU countries. Instead of pontificating over something which is unachievable, perhaps putting your money where your mouth is - and doing something like this - may turn out to be constructive. JB

Hi Stavey, You make your living ashore, which is your choice. I make mine from the sea, which is my choice. As you know, I run a successful charter business. These days, successful charter businesses in this country are few and far between. I put my success down to giving my customers what they want. And what they want is a good chance to catch lots of fish. In my business, the customer is always right. And the majority of anglers that come to Whitby from all over the country want what I supply. How do I know this? Because the majority of anglers that come to Whitby go off with me. I realise you cannot please all of the people all the time. But I gain more customers than I lose. I am working at maximum capacity and no longer need to advertise. You may say that what I do is not true angling. You may be right. But it is what most of the anglers that come to Whitby want to do, and these anglers are not local - they are from all over the UK. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. However, there are numerous boat anglers in this country, all with their own opinions of what is right for them. The anglers who fish on board my boat obviously do not share your beliefs. That is their prerogative. JB

New Zealand is a perfect example of a success story and all who fish in NZ are looked after. On inspection of the drawing, it is plain for all to see why it is a success story. The NZ government values its resource and manages it correctly. The major part of its management system is creating an exclusive economic zone, the important word being ‘exclusive’. Taking a small part of the NZ strategy and saying it should apply here is futile. I fully realise that NZ has a great geographical advantage over us. However, until our government takes total control of our resource and manages it in a similar way to NZ, the best we can ever hope for is very small improvement in exchange for a major effort on our part. The little we may gain can be totally eradicated by the stroke of a pen from an EU bureaucrat. JB

New Zealand's Exclusive Economic Zone JB

I would like to ask a question. Do you think that the outrageous amount of taxpayers’ money spent on the tiny commercial fishing industry is for the benefit of the few fishermen taking part in it, or for the benefit of the massive numbers of bureaucrats in the grossly overstaffed departments overseeing the management of this tiny industry? I suppose the answers will vary, depending on whether you are a “commercial-basher” or not. JB