Where does the buck stop?

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I don't know the ins and outs of that particular case, but if you sack the head of a department every time a mistake is made, then pretty soon you're going to run out of heads of departments and only be left with people even more likely to make mistakes running the shop, surely?

 

I realise it's extremely hard-hitting in a case of a child being murdered, but I'm generalising here.

 

My own anger would be targeted towards the sick bastards that actually killed the child.

 

I am not talking anger, I am talking responsibility and she was head of what was a small compact department. She was responsible for ensuring that her staff work to certain procedures to protect children at risk and she failed to do that. In that position I would have resigned immediately. The only time one could think of sitting it out was if one of the staff had deliberately abused the procedures and their position. I bet they never had a Monday morning weekly meeting where reports were submitted on every child at risk and any relevant problems addressed. And there should have been basic alarms in place and every time one rung the category of risk should have been raised. Reading the case reports there were numerous such events over a two year period.

 

Anger yes I get angry, very angry and in my opinion prison is an easy way out. And whenever I say that I am usually challenged one way or the other, but the answer is always the same, yes I would pull the lever, in cases like this I am a great believer in an eye for an eye.

[raycab]

i have no sympathy for this shoesmith person and baby p's parents aka pieces of crap imo they should hang but i think the reason she would not resign is because she was only following orders.new labour for what they have done to this country have alot to answer for as for the tories dont hold your breath with them.osbourne,mandleson,russian orlygarch and a rothschild meeting on a greek island whats that all about

[Clifftop]

Totally agree, However what is the need for childrens services then, what are they actually achieving, the kid was under thier supervision.

 

 

Barry, What government department is 100% efficient.

 

Kids saved by childrens services do not rate time in the press, they are not newsworthy, they do not generate extra sales.

 

At the end of the day its the people who are responsible for the death that are to blame.

 

In regards to Kens reference about pulling the lever, niether your government nor ours would ever dare to hold a referendum on wether to bring back capital punishment because they already have a good idea of what the result would be.IMO

 

 

Cheers Fred

[Angly]

The result may be yes because lets face it the vast majority of the great unwashed probably struggle to get dressed unaided in the morning.

 

As soon as one legalises taking a life in cold blood as a means of punishment, one has just given everyone the excuse to murder as a personal punishment (hey, if the government says it's OK...).

 

It isn't a deterrent either (and I speak with some experience here), all most all criminals either don't expect to get caught (in which case there is no deterrent factor), or they commit the crime in the heat of the moment (and therefore the deterrent factor if any doesn't come into it).

[Clifftop]

The result may be yes because lets face it the vast majority of the great unwashed probably struggle to get dressed unaided in the morning.

 

As soon as one legalises taking a life in cold blood as a means of punishment, one has just given everyone the excuse to murder as a personal punishment (hey, if the government says it's OK...).

 

It isn't a deterrent either (and I speak with some experience here), all most all criminals either don't expect to get caught (in which case there is no deterrent factor), or they commit the crime in the heat of the moment (and therefore the deterrent factor if any doesn't come into it).

 

My My My the great unwashed, got a high opinion of yourself then.

 

The second line of your argument is also a load of crap, where as the government sees fit to lock people away you try locking your teenage daughter away so she can't associate with the great unwashed and see where that gets you.

 

Cheers Fred

[Angly]

My My My the great unwashed, got a high opinion of yourself then.

 

Not all, I am one of them. If I had said 'the public' would you have thought I wasn't a member of the public???

 

The second line of your argument is also a load of crap, where as the government sees fit to lock people away you try locking your teenage daughter away so she can't associate with the great unwashed and see where that gets you.

 

Cheers Fred

 

Well, it's hardly 'crap' if I think that the government legalising using cold blooded murder at least partly excuses me committing it too. I doubt very much whether I'm the only UK resident to think that either. Or by some strange process of elimination doesn't my opinion count?

[Clifftop]

Not all, I am one of them. If I had said 'the public' would you have thought I wasn't a member of the public???

 

 

 

Well, it's hardly 'crap' if I think that the government legalising using cold blooded murder at least partly excuses me committing it too. I doubt very much whether I'm the only UK resident to think that either. Or by some strange process of elimination doesn't my opinion count?

 

 

Of course your opinion counts but its a bit of a moot point really as you will never be asked to give it, just like i wont

 

 

Cheers Fred

[Angly]

True, but then hopefully neither of us is going to be in court charged with something that justifies the death sentence.

 

Furthermore, once a criminal has committed a crime worthy of the death penalty, they have no reason not to go on a killing spree, after all, the sentence can't get any worse.

 

Then we have the small matter of the executioner. Are you going to get someone else to do it because you can't stomach it? Or perhaps you can cold bloodedly take a person's life whilst they plead for forgiveness, and if you can, you might want to think long and hard about that that says about you.

 

Hey, I'm all for anything goes if you catch them in the act, "sorry officer don't know what came over me"...but in cold blood 6 months later?