balaced tackle

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Ray Walton:

Barry...Read the first post again..it's all fact!. I know it's very hard for you to accept things unless you see it happen for yourself, and i can assure you that most only happen once in a lifetime. I was sceptical as you when i was told or read things on barbel in my eary days and i had the same attitude. Until it happens to you, you wont take it as gospel, and i really dont blame you or care as i was like that!. Most barbel anglers know i don't lie and most have seen my shows and Gordon and Steve admit they fall asleep when i show records and pics of my barbel studys, pollution and welfare piece, treatment, returning fish. Most of my sightings and captures were done over six years of being on the bank from 1983-1989, watching and fishing for barbel 'exclusively' on the Royalty in every condition including snow. None are 'scenarios' as you think. They are fact! I have experienced and seen everything i have written about, whether in my study or in the 90's up until today. It may even suprise you that Scientific Papers on barbel include a lot of the research done by myself and dedicated friends. I am doing a slide show in Reading in October and you are welcome to come and see some of it for yourself, albeit an edited down one hour show with Bob James as well. How's that for being nice? Cheers again!

 

Ray I asked for a retraction of your shocking slurs along with an oplogiy to myself and other barbel anglers.

 

Are you not man enough to take back the unforgivable attack on your fellow anglers.

 

Or are you so self centered that you feel can say what you like?

 

Yes you may have retrieved tackle from the rivers, so have I and many other anglers.

 

We did not assume it was yours, your response clearly indicates that you think the tackle retrieved is mine, God only knows how you came to that conclusion??

 

You still have not explained why you feel 30lb braib is required,that leads me to think that you can't??????

 

I look forward to seeing your apologiy shortly, failure to do so will im sure show your true colours.

Barry Ford

[Guest Simon Newbould]

Blimey, I think there's gonna be a fight!

 

<running for cover, that far bank snag looks ideal>

 

Simon

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Ray Walton:

Get it right please barry or i might get 'tetchy'!.. You sound a bit like robbie? and seem to be pretty good at foulhooking fish and me up the bum... silly boy!.. and i will cetainly have a field day waitng to grab your swim after youv'e left before going to my sunday boot sale!.. However.. I agree and your right barry/robbie ...you are a great guy and you are truly a better person and angler than i with your choice of misleading and ill-informed comments, but i apologise deeply for catching a 17 lb 4 oz authenticated record barbel from an ‘easy water’ that i previously caught fifteen months before at 12.15 pm on Dec 12 1997 at 15 lb 7 oz, it’s heaviest weight ‘ever’ at the time of capture and before there were any ‘record’ fish around to 'chase', (i think an apology is in order here at this time please barry! Thank you!) and i admit that no ‘skill’ was ever involved, as it just jumped out over Stef Horak and John Barford onto my hook and ‘wow’ there it was, my first barbel on 'Spam' from the Gt. Ouse Mill in 2 years of sussing and trying and of course 'chasing' my own arse around Milton Keynes with my own method!. I also apologise for using 30 lb braid and non-toxic plasticine because i have found it safer than using 10lb or 12lb braid with lead which i have found 'snaps' at around 6 - 8lb in pressure and knot tests and leaves baited rigs in the water which fish can pick up and ‘swallow’ or ‘tether’, and apologies to you for also using a sharp hook and rig to boot that doesn't foulhook fish, and i also apologise for fishing for barbel for the past 34 years and logging and keeping photographic records of everything barbel related and informing you and others since 1979, and also making everything up and telling porky pies in what i have seen, written and talk about and for showing 'unique' false pictures of barbel, tackle, and non-existant fisheries at my 3 hour slide shows and in the press. Boring isn't it! Happy now.. I'm sorry barry! .. Why not book a day out with PAA Coach, Gordon my best mate! You might well learn something about Barbel, fishing and life! Seriously Barry/Robbie.. We are very nice people and i really dont know why you have a personal grudge and keep baiting? You seem paramount about fish welfare as we all do, but you aint no different to any of us, and 'you' also stick a sharp hook into a fishes mouth, pull them out of the water ‘on braid’ onto the bank, and think it’s great. So don't you play god either! 'Caring' is hypocritical to a point!. We all "care" but still do it, and you are no exception! There is a fine line drawn between ‘welfare’ and ‘anti’, and it seems that some 'caring' anglers could 'unwittingly' step over it!  We are all travelling in the same Steve's ‘unity’ boat, as to speak. Everything else is secondary..Wise up.. i’m a nice bloke as others will tell you..well most. Where's that other R.W geeza.. Cheers

 

Ray you seem to think I may be some one else?

 

I am not Robbie who is the other RW geeza you refer to/

Most definitly Barry Ford from Manchester 45 married three kids motgage dog and a MU supporter.

[Guest BivvyUp]

The main reason for using a heavier strain of braid such as 30lb is as follows.

• If you used a braid as a reel line of similar b/s to what you would use a mono, then you would not be thinking about the fish you are catching as the braid is a lot finer for a stated strain than mono it can cause lifting of scales during the playing of a fish. If you don't belive me ask Danny Fairbrass of Korda who will clarify the subject more.
  
• Secondly it is a known fact that most braids lose upto 30% of their breaking strain when knotted. Do you want to be one of the ones that loses a lot of the fish they hook due to line partures or lose a lot of terminal tackle due to the same?? I know I wouldn't at todays prices.
  

BTW for the record I don't use braid at all due to the fact it is so damn expensive compared to nylon.

 

As for the arguing, I know I have had my disagreements on forums with name anglers but I think that this one between Ray Walton & Barry has gone a little to far. Angling unity....why give the anti's more ammo????

Both have valid points and the way I read it was that Ray was saying that he had cleared up the rivers using braid by retrieving other anglers lost tackle. I didn't see Ray mention any names at all blaming any one here for snagging up or such. I am not a Barbel angler at all in fact I have never even caught one, but I know who I would listen to if it came down to it if I needed any advice. As for Ray being 'lucky' on the 'Easy' Gt Ouse, this is wishful thinking as Ray has caught Barbel from most of the UK's rivers and is not just known for holding the Record???

 

------------------

Darren Wilson

Webmaster

The Carpers Lodge

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by BivvyUp:

The main reason for using a heavier strain of braid such as 30lb is as follows.

• If you used a braid as a reel line of similar b/s to what you would use a mono, then you would not be thinking about the fish you are catching as the braid is a lot finer for a stated strain than mono it can cause lifting of scales during the playing of a fish. If you don't belive me ask Danny Fairbrass of Korda who will clarify the subject more.
   
  
• Secondly it is a known fact that most braids lose upto 30% of their breaking strain when knotted. Do you want to be one of the ones that loses a lot of the fish they hook due to line partures or lose a lot of terminal tackle due to the same?? I know I wouldn't at todays prices.
  

BTW for the record I don't use braid at all due to the fact it is so damn expensive compared to nylon.

 

As for the arguing, I know I have had my disagreements on forums with name anglers but I think that this one between Ray Walton & Barry has gone a little to far. Angling unity....why give the anti's more ammo????

Both have valid points and the way I read it was that Ray was saying that he had cleared up the rivers using braid by retrieving other anglers lost tackle. I didn't see Ray mention any names at all blaming any one here for snagging up or such. I am not a Barbel angler at all in fact I have never even caught one, but I know who I would listen to if it came down to it if I needed any advice. As for Ray being 'lucky' on the 'Easy' Gt Ouse, this is wishful thinking as Ray has caught Barbel from most of the UK's rivers and is not just known for holding the Record???

 

Bivveyup I would ask you to read Ray Waltons

last paragraph he clearly say's your's and as he is responding to me he doe's not have to mention names it is clear that he means me.

 

It would seem that ray has had problems with other anglers he mentions someone called robbie and a mystical reference to another RW.

 

For the record I am who I claim to be I am not robbie or anyone else for that matter.

 

I agree with some of your points.

Barry Ford

[Guest davidP]

Come on Guys, nobody really thought it was aimed at anyone in particular, it was just a style of writing designed to get over a point in a rather tongue-in-cheek way (as many of Rays posts are). It isn't worth falling out over.

 

Why do we use certain tackle? In most cases I would doubt there is a particular reason it's more a case of instinct and experience. I'm certain there are things we all do that we would be pushed to explain why, yet we wouldn't do it any other way. Others will no doubt find them strange/wrong/whatever but that won't stop us doing it because it seems the right way to us. I am happy to say that in the case of the vast majority of specialist anglers they consider the welfare of their quarry extremely highly - I'll bet there are spouses & children out there who wish they were treated as well as the fish. There are mercifully only a small minority who practice 'catch at any cost' fishing and I don't think that there will be too many of them here because the wouldn't be welcome and wouldn't fit in with the philosophy (for want of a better word) that this forum operates under. Having read Rays' posts over the months I've got to say that I've been impressed with his obvious knowledge of his subject but I must confess that I too was surprised to discover he used 30lb braid. My initial reaction was exactly the same as Barrys in thinking that was rather heavy and so I was very interested when this topic was posted. I feel however that the various posts plus my own recent experiences with braid have explained his thinking to me and I no longer have any doubts about it. Does this mean I'll rush out and use 30lb braid for barbel? Probably not, but I'll certainly file it away as something to be considered should a suitable fishing opportunity arise.

 

Writing posts with wording that is totally inoffensive to everybody is a hugely difficult and time consuming thing to do. No doubt somebody will find something I say in this post offensive even though I'm trying really hard. When posts are written hurridly during a snatched 5 minutes it is very easy to not spot potential pitfalls, particularly when questioning someones fishing methods/ethics etc. As a result I think you need to read posts in this light. Much of what is written here is fairly lighthearted and is often between people who know each other IRL, yet something as simple as missing off a smilie could mean that potentially the post could read completely differently to what the writer intended because implying tone is one of the hardest things to do. I strongly suspect that posts that are a deliberate and definite attempt to abuse will not only be extremely obvious but will also cause the moderators to do what they're here for. And wouldn't it be a boring forum if it was all 100% politically correct??

 

So let's chill a little Guys, and not read a potential insult into everything that's written.

Apologies in advance to anybody offended by this post

[Guest Ian Cresswell]

Originally posted by davidP:

I strongly suspect that posts that are a deliberate and definite attempt to abuse will not only be extremely obvious but will also cause the moderators to do what they're here for.

 

I'd say that's about right

 

The whole point behind this forum is to allow anglers to sound off, to question and to argue. Everybody wins if we do this responsibly.

 

It can get 'a bit close to the edge' at times but I certainly haven't felt the need to 'pull the trigger'yet.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Guest Keitht]

Sorry simon,

 

but I am already hiding in that hole you will have to find another snag to hide in.

 

Sorry bRay but as much as we all luv and respect you and your writings, be it with 500 years research you are losing this one, NO matter how you justify it. what happens when next week another tackle manufacturer comes out with a line that has -zero stretch and the diameter of 2lb perlon but the breaking strain of 100lb. Do we all then revert to the only challenge of hooking a fish (forget the sporting chance during the fight) and reel it in, we may as well forget the debate about cane versus carbon and just use Beach Casters.

 

When that happens i'll join the dedicated tradies and fish for gudgeon with suitable tackle.

 

Ray please and pretty please give us some other reasons for using 30lb braid.

 

Also you say you are giving a talk in Reading in Oct, can you please let me know the venue and dates as I am over in UK then and would luv to come (sorry go).

 

Keith

[Guest barry ford]

Originally posted by Keitht:

Sorry simon,

 

but I am already hiding in that hole you will have to find another snag to hide in.

 

Sorry bRay but as much as we all luv and respect you and your writings, be it with 500 years research you are losing this one, NO matter how you justify it. what happens when next week another tackle manufacturer comes out with a line that has -zero stretch and the diameter of 2lb perlon but the breaking strain of 100lb. Do we all then revert to the only challenge of hooking a fish (forget the sporting chance during the fight) and reel it in, we may as well forget the debate about cane versus carbon and just use Beach Casters.

 

When that happens i'll join the dedicated tradies and fish for gudgeon with suitable tackle.

 

Ray please and pretty please give us some other reasons for using 30lb braid.

 

Also you say you are giving a talk in Reading in Oct, can you please let me know the venue and dates as I am over in UK then and would luv to come (sorry go).

 

Keith          

Hi Keith.

How right you are, I started this thread to find out why anglers like Ray Walton feel the need to use 30lb braid as yet I feel that not one answer has clarified this question.

 

As you have seen I have been subjected to quite a bit of abuse from Ray,he thinks I may be someone else i.e Robbie or the mysterious RW he refers to.

 

I can only presume that he has had problems with these persons in the past??

 

Ray suggested in one of his posts that the barbel he caught in Dec 97 was at it's heaviest ever wieght, I think he may have forgotten a fish caught by Adrian Busby caught in Oct 96, that was the fish he and all the other chasers were after as he well knows.

 

He should not try to hide the fact that others and not he had done the ground work on the Ouse he just jumped on the band wagon as others have done since he's capture of the record.

 

This is really getting of the track of this thread, but I feel it needs to be highlighted that some anglers seem to think they are superior to others Ray Walton is one of them, as for myself I am an ordinary guy who thinks that 30lb braid and a 1lb test curve rod are not balanced and as I place fish welfare as the highest priority on the list I make no apology to Ray Walton or any that finds the need to use such takle.

 

Some of you feel this thread has gotten out of hand IF within two days Ray Walton finds himself unable to give satisfactory answers I will requet the closure of this thread.

 

Tight lines,rope's or hawsers,what ever your chioce Barry Ford.

[Guest Eddie]

Not having the experience neccessary to answer this post properly I will let others more respected do it for me!

 

Quoted from "SUCCESSFUL ANGLING" 1977 by Richard Walker, Fred J Taylor, Hugh Falkus, Fred Buller. Taken from a section atribited to Walker and Taylor.

 

"4. Use the right tackle

Your outfit must be capable of placing the bait where the fish can find it, preferably with the least possible distubance; of detecting bites when they come; of driving the hook home, and of exercising enough control over a hooked fish to keep it clear of weeds and snags until it is sufficiently tired to be led to the net. Most anglers are well aware of this but fail to put into practice what they know because of mistaken ideas about angling ethics, involving the belief that it is more creditable to fish with inadequate than with adequate tackle.

It is not sportsmanlike to use tackle so light that if you hook a big fish you are likely to be broken. Fish that have been hooked and lost are as hard to catch as those that have been landed and returned. If they are left trailing a length of line they are almost impossible to catch until they get rid of it and then it is left in the water to entangle some unfortunate bird. So use the strongest tackle and the biggest hooks that the fish will take. If you use tackle that is too coarse, you`ll get no bites, so tackle strength has always to strike a compromise. But if you have located your fish, avoided scaring them, and chosen to fish at a time when they are feeding, you can usually tempt them to bite on tackle strong enough to land them, provided you make no mistakes in your handling."