(CARP)- pH levels and bait.

[Guest Chris Shaw]

Does anybody out there understand anything about pH levels and carp baits?

 

I seem to recall something about a carp detecting food sources via ionisation and that different waters have different pH levels therefore in some waters your bait maybe very attractive to the carp and in another it may not be.

 

Also going along these lines is it correct that if you get your bait to within 3 of the actual waters pH level then your bait will be very attactive to the carp?

 

If a water has a neutral pH level is the ionisation process enhanced? IE: Is it better at carrying attraction?

 

------------------

Chris Shaw

 

They played on while the reel handles spun in unison.

[Guest Simon Newbould]

Bloody 'ell Chris!!!!

 

I can hear the cogs whirring now!! *s*

 

Simon

[Guest Julian @ fishooked]

Hi Chris,

 

My first post so I hope it all works OK!

 

I've just re-read a bit out of Strategic Carp Fishing ( Rob Hughes & Simon Crow ).

 

As I understand it, carp can be attracted to a bait that has a ph level different to that of the water itself. Thus, if a carp senses a change in the ph level in the water as it nears your bait, it will sense the change and may be attracted to the source. It will then search out the source of this change, ie, your bait.

 

However if you put in to much bait or the ph level is to high, then this might repel the carp as the change in level might be to overwhelming, and the fish could feel uneasy with the change and get out of the area!

 

There's a lot more info but it gets a bit deep if you know what I mean!

 

Its in chapter 4 on Bait if you're interested.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Julian.

 

[This message has been edited by Julian @ fishooked (edited 29 June 2001).]

[Guest Simon Newbould]

Yeah, according to the bait guru's most of the classic attractors have a low pH (slightly acidic)..... Carp detect the attractor most easily in water of neutral PH (pH7).......

 

The more extreme (higher or lower than neutral) the pH of the water the more attractor is required to attract the fish.....

 

As I said.... COMPLEX ain't the word here.... the pH level of any particular body of water can and does vary according to all kinds of factors (depth being one of them) so it is very difficult to ascertain the correct pH value of the water surronding your bait ...

 

 

As a genereal rule it's probably better to start off at low flavour levels and gradually increase them 'til you start catching..... pH? forget about it.....

 

Simon

 

 

Julian? welcome to the forum mate!!!!

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Simon Newbould (edited 29 June 2001).]

[Guest RobStubbs]

Chris,

pH level will affect ionisation but whether adjusting your baits pH relative to a water would make any difference is pure speculation. And also how do you measure pH of a solid ? - answer you can't. I'm pretty certain pH is only measurable in an aqeuous enviroment (i.e. not in a boilie).

 

So the bottom line is don't worry about it. A good bait is a good bait in pretty much any water, irrespective of acidity or alkalinity. Oh and if Hughes and Crow wrote about it, I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

 

I also seem to remember someone wrote a pseudo scientific paper on this topic and measuring pH and things like protein concentrations in the vicinity of a bait (in a beaker) and they detected hardly any changes to either. If you think about it how can a boilie (maybe a few cc) influence the pH of a lake containing millions of gallons of water, even in the immediate local area around the bait especially allowing for water movement - wind, etc.

 

Keep it simple.

 

Rob.

[Guest Simon Newbould]

Rob,

 

Great answer mate - one can definately over complicate things

 

btw - I think Hughes and Crow got their info from Mr Paisley and his ilk..... there's definately summit innit BUT god knows to what extent we as anglers can effect these things I dunno.....

 

The fact that the big time attractors (Scopex, Tutti, Strawberry etc) are relatively low in pH makes me want to believe that there's something in it....

 

 

Simon

[Guest poledark]

Over the years I have kept a very close watch on bait additives and Ph and the results of hundreds of conversations with some of the best carpers in the land have led me to the conclusion that the finest and most effective additive is B******t. Provided that you can match it to the ph in the water you are fishing then you are certain to "take the place apart"

Added at the rate of several bucketloads(very easy to do if you club together with a few mates)and a good base mix then it will induce a feeding frenzy and no carp will be able to resist it.

B******t is available from all good carp tackle shops and is available in a huge range of colors, and you can get them ready made and frozen. I believe that you can get floaters as well but that depends on the scource supply.

But as with most things success depends on getting everything off pat,

Poledark

[Guest JonL]

Hi Chris, Rob, Simon, Julian

 

Sensible post Rob

 

<I'm pretty certain pH is only measurable in an aqeuous enviroment (i.e. not in boilie).>

 

This is correct Rob, you would only be able to measure the pH of the aqueous solution produced when the water soluble components of the boilie dissolve. As the additives to the boiled bait are trapped in the solid framework of coagulated egg, I would suggest that it is the rate at which the additives can leach out into the water that would influence their effectiveness. If these additives then ionise, who is to say which of the two (positive and negative) ions produced is detected by the fish.

 

Simon

 

<The fact that the big time attractors (Scopex, Tutti, Strawberry etc) are relatively low in pH>

 

If these attractors have a low pH (say 4 -5) then you must consider the effect of adding them to the eggs. I am fairly sure that egg white is slightly alkaline with a pH of about 9 - not sure about the yolk. However some neutralisation will still occur to give a pH somewhere between the two. The acidic nature of the attractor could be removed or reduced and again we are back to it having to dissolve in water before further ionisation can occur.

 

Complex or what? - hope you do not mind the input (I rarely post but read avidly).

 

Chris

Suggest that you do not concern yourself with pH effect unless you want to consider it just for fun!! Why not make your bait so that the attractors can get out or use more smaller baits to increase surface area of contact with the water?

 

JonL

[Guest JonL]

Originally posted by poledark:

B******t is available from all good carp tackle shops

 

Hi Poledark

 

You are right about the B******t and surprisingly there is no shortage despite 'foot in mouth' disease.

 

JonL

[Guest RobStubbs]

Just another quick comment. Most bait flavours are 99.9% solvent i.e. propylene glycol etc so from a flavour point of view all flavours should be pretty similar in the fact that their major components would have the same pKa or ionisation characteristics. Sure other more complex additives such as corn steep liquor, amino type complexes etc would have different characteristics which may have a greater affect but I doubt it.

 

Lets also not forget that whilst ionisation may matter there are other factors that may all mask the bait 'signals'; I'm thinking of salts in the water, calcium and phosphates, silt gas, carbon dioxide or oxygen from respiration or photosynthesis, nitrates and other artificial chemical 'additives' from feriliser run offs. This all gets more and more complex if you really want it to but I suspect your time is better spent with your rod in the water rather than thinking up complex bait scenarious.

 

Rob.