Fishing a ''blood sport''

[Guest poledark]

Nightwing, we won't tke offence, a lot of us are very confused and worried as to how to handle the anti's. Many of us feel that entering into a batle of words with them would only highlight the "problem" in the eyes of the public and so we tend to keep our heads down.

Do you have the equivalent of our Foxhunting? We have had the strange scenario whereby pictures of "old england" with snow and huntsman,and a brace of Pheasants hanging up for Xmas suddenly changed and became,in the eyes of the public, as a measure of all that is wrong and hateful.

The fact that it was another step down the road to uniformity and mediocrity and will lead us one step closer to living like rats all huddled up in our little box's, pressing little buttons and never realising our real place on this wonderful place we call earth,never seems to occur to them.

One of my sons is a real"townie", he doesn't drive,why should he?, he can get everywhere that matters by bus or underground. He used to "come to the country" with us when he was younger but now has absolutely no wish ever to step outside of a town. Yet He, and many of his friends are strongly anti fields sports.

They got extremely worked up over foxhunting, a subject that had not bothered them in the least until the antis brought it to the public attention.

My local paper carried a story today regarding a swan caught up in fishing line, how the hell do I answer this? Pleading with anglers to stop leaving litter is banging your head against a brick wall in England. We have a well deserved reputation of having a dirty, litter strewn country, and some of the worst places are fisheries.

Almost everywhere I go nowadays I find lengths of line partly buried in the mud of a swim, or wrapped round a branch; on one quite famous water I almost kept myself stocked up with hooks, shot,swivels and beads, simply by picking up what was lying around.

We have lost our standards of behaviour and decency and we are fighting a losing battle, but if you or anyone else can show us how to delay the inevitable then I for one will be extremely grateful. Harsh problems may need harsh answers.

poledark

[Guest Ken L]

Always a subject to drive a wedge this one and the language and culture difference between the two sides of the Atlantic helps not a jot.

'Hunting' in the context of british country sports usually relates to hunting on horseback with a pack of dogs. Personally I have a hard time alligning myself with the people who engage in this activity.

'Shooting' is perhaps more analogous to the US idea of hunting as it involves using a gun to bring down birds and other game. I don't have any problem with sustainable hunting or even the small farm scale shoots that rear birds for release and then raise them for a few guns but, and its a big but, I find the large scale estate shoots where thousands of birds are released only to be shot and the bodies burried with a JCB utterly repugnant.

 

So how does this relate to fishing ? Well truth be told, I don't see that much difference between the activities of some high stocking density carp waters and the big estate shoots..

Give me a natural river, wild fish and a day of solitude anytime.

[Guest Leon Roskilly]

Nightwing,

 

You are right.

 

Things are very different on this small island.

 

There is no great outdoors, or wilderness to speak of.

 

The countryside is largely managed, with access for most people confined to a few relatively small areas, and the odd footpath.

 

A recent bill to provide the 'right to roam' has been heavily opposed by country dwellers.

 

'Hunting' isn't usually for wild game, it's mainly carried out on big estates, for birds bred and released each season, for the purpose of being shot, or deer culled from managed herds.

 

True, there are pigeons, rabbits, and rats to be shot, if you can get a farmer's permission.

 

And of course there is fox-hunting, although that is much more of a social scene than anything an American outdoors man would recognise as hunting.

 

By and large, to hunt for 'game' you usually need to pay a lot of money for the privilege.

 

In many respects, the anti hunting lobby is a class thing, a chance to get at the rich and spoil their fun, denied to most ordinary folks.

 

On the other hand, fishing, especially coarse fishing is much more widely available.

 

But again the days when you could take a rod and fish almost anywhere are a distant memory.

 

The fishing rights to any piece of water is usually owned by a club, and an annual membership is required to fish the club's waters. Sometimes a club will have rights to a number of waters, sometimes you have to pay a huge fee to fish a single lake. Some stretches of water are commercially run, and some run by clubs, where you can purchase a day ticket.

 

Coarse anglers are almost exclusively catch and release anglers, with fish welfare being high in their priorities.

 

So you have a situation where there are relatively few people engaged in hunting, but millions (mainly city dwellers) involved in coarse fishing.

 

When foot and mouth broke out, ramblers, anglers and other visitors to the countryside stopped going. Only then did the authorities wake up to the fact that the Engish countryside, and the rural economy, has become dependent on recreation and leisure, and a big proportion of that is angling related. (I spent about £3,000 in a rural part of the country, on a family holiday last year. The wife and kids spent more. We went where we did because I'm an angler. Think of all those families who have at least one angler who insists on going somewhere where they can fish!)

 

So, hunting and (certainly 'coarse') angling have largely gone in different directions, with different cultures and different practitioners.

 

There are relatively few hunters, whose contribution to the rural econmy pales into insignificance against the several million coarse fishermen, and their importance to the rural economy.

 

I really don't believe that fishing will go the same way as hunting in the UK.

 

The politicos have seen the fuss that a few hunters, threatened with a ban, can make.

 

Taking on anglers would be a much bigger ball game.

 

The facts and figures which can be used to defend angling are much more persuasive than those can be used to defend hunting.

 

But there is little room for complacency, look across the water to what happened in Germany, where catch and release is considered cruel (why catch a fish if you aren't going to eat it!).

 

We need to be driving home the message now, as to how important angling is to the social and economic fabric of the country, particularly to the rural economy. Not keeping quiet, hiding our lights under the bushel, hoping that we won't be noticed

 

Similar rules here would put an end to coarse fishing as it's practised in the UK.

 

No pleasure angling, no match angling - no coarse fishing.

 

That would leave just game (salmon & trout) anglers, and sea anglers to defend the remnants of UK angling.

 

Without the vast army of coarse anglers to defend angling, they would be a relatively easy target for the antis to pick off.

 

Game anglers in particular might like to think hard, whether it's worth the gamble of pushing angling into the firing line to defend 'hunting'.

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

er Nightwing, Just in case you may be thinking that I'm just a roach basher with no understanding of hunting; when I lived in Australia, I spent nights under the stars, hunting with a rifle; skinning, cooking and eating the game I bought down.

(well not the goanna - the dog had that!)

[Guest Newt]

Nightwing - most of the really "hot & heavy" discussion on this whole them vs. us thing was a while ago when the topic of a fox hunting bann was being discussed. Fox hunting suffered from being considered a rich person's sport.

 

I have decided that a large number of folks with whom I normally agree have an opinion on this that I completely disagree with but I took my best shot at changing minds and failed. Since they are there and I am not, they may even have it correct and I could be completely wrong. Time will tell on this one but I did and do think that anglers and hunters would have done better to stick together. My opinion.

 

That being said, I'd love to meet many of the regular posters from this bbs but I would rather it not be because they could no longer fish in the UK and had to come to the states.

[Guest fish slime]

Origional poster hear.im sorry if ive just started a war between you guys.

[Guest Alan Pearce]

Interesting to hear what our friends from across the pond have to say, should we not take note? Then there are the ever wise words from Leon (with the exception that 'millions' of people coarse fish, how many licences sold Leon?).

 

Personally, whilst I don't like hunting with hounds, I do beleive that all country sports should stick together to protect our rights and freedom of choice.

 

Alan.

[Guest 'eelfisher']

Dear Alan

Thank God that is your own personal view and not the stance of the SAA.

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

PS...There are millions, its just that quite a few do not remember to buy a licence. Knowing that I have not been asked for a licence over the past two seasons, I am not suprised that a few decide to have a chancer.

The way things are going, if you get caught without one the authorities will probably buy those scoundrels a new rod as punishment.

[Guest BarbLess]

You can't put Course fishing in the same category as Hunting, wether that be fox, stag etc.

Look at stag hunting for example...they creep up on a Deer, shoot it in the leg, foot so it is lame, chase it round for 20 miles, finally wear it down, trap it, then they all jump on it. (I'm talking humans btw)...the dogs just bite it's ******.

As for the American related postings...different country brother....has anyone seen how Americans catch carp.....they spear gun them.

The only thing that is cruel with fishing in this country is overstocking of commercial fisheries, IMHO.

[Guest uk_lurcher]

Dear Alan, such a shame this is your personal view and not that of the SAA!!!

 

UKL

 

P.S Eelfisher, all those thousands fishing ILLEGALLY without a licence is really good PR for us Anglers, don't you think, right up there with the discarded tackle and litter.

 

To those who can't see the link between the fight against the ban on hunting with dogs (NOT just Foxhunting!) and future attacks on Angling, consider this. What is Joe Publics attitude going to be when (not if) the LACS hunt monitors (and their mates from the HSA) turn their video cameras (and confrontational tactics) on the weigh in after matches, the worst of the BIVVYBOYS, or some of our less than pristine Carp Puddles?

 

Better to fight together now rather than alone later.

[Guest 'eelfisher']

Dear uk_lurcher

I do not condone the wasters.....far from it. I was just pointing out to Alan that Millions do fish.

I have always had a licence...everyone should.

You obviously do not know me or I have read your words in the wrong way.

If I have, then please accept my apologies my friend.

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

PS...I have always been one for uniteing our band of merry anglers and come the day I shall be at the front with you.