'Alien' species, to return or not?

[Guest Keith]

Originally posted by tony jolley:

Eel for example are one of the original native species in the U,K, But alot of the people on this forum would sooner throw them on the bank, or kill them

 

Hang on a mo!

 

I doubt very much that "a lot of the people on this forum" kill eels just because they don't like 'em!

 

Just because some of us don't particularly like catching them, don't read "death sentence" into it - I'll bet that, when an eel is caught by most of us, there'll be bitching and whingeing and complaining about the mess... and then the eel will go back into the water just as lively as it was when it came out.

 

There might be the odd person on here who makes a point of topping the eels they catch, but they'll be a tiny minority.

 

Likewise with pike:

 

"bang it on the head most would say not thinking of the later effect on a fishery when they are over run with Jacks"

 

Most anglers?

 

I don't think so, Tony! And certainly not "most" anglers on this forum.

 

With respect, I think you need to be careful about making sweeping generalisations like these - you're being very unfair to anglers in general, and I suspect that you're preaching to the converted anyway, on this forum.

 

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Keith

 

Blyth,

Northumberland

 

mailto:keith@go-fishing.co.ukkeith@go-fishing.co.uk

http://www.wacacnet.co.uk

[Guest tony jolley]

DEAR keith!

I hope like you say that I am talking to the converted!!!!

It certainly is`nt the case when I talk to a lot of anglers on the bank!

it is worth remmembering that not all who read this forum actually post a reply,

I am not having a go at any one in particular just what seems to be a large percentage of uniformed and unaware anglers,

I dont like the idea of anglers making fishery decissions which they are not qualified to make,

I obviously came on too strong, for that i appologise but the fact is a lot of anglers,

and poeple in general dont know what affect removeing fish make to a water, I dont think we should encourage the action,

I hope no one feels offended by what I have written,

CONVERTED I HOPE SO,

 

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Tony B.T Jolley

[Guest fishboy]

unless you owned the water where you caught the fish then its not yours to kill, after all carp were an introduced spiecies and most of the barble rivers were stocked because they were only found in a few rivers.

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Wells Catfish are now in the River Trent and have been so for some time now. They are also successfully breeding in the river.

 

A small number of infant Wells Catfish are starting to be caught in matches on the Trent some of which I have witnessed myself whilst watching matchmen weighing in their catches.

 

The largest Trent Wells Catfish that I know about was an 11lb fish caught last season.

 

At the moment, these cats pose no problem to the rivers native fish. In fairness to the Wells Catfish, it could be that their residence from probable dubious sources within the River Trent may indeed still pose no serious problem once they become fully established.

 

I well remember all the outcries from anglers when Zander began to spread throughout the Drain Systems. Now a days there are vast amounts of general course fish thriving in the Drains along side plentiful numbers of Zander. There are some massive shoals of Bream,Roach and Tench in a lot of these Drains that hardly ever see an anglers hook. Very strange dont you think?

Perhaps anglers still assume that their are no good fishing to be had on the Drain Systems due to Zander predation but they are wrong.

 

As far as I am aware, it IS an offence to put back certain "Alien" species back into an environment where they are caught by anglers. EA fisheries officers would be horrified at the prospect of Wells Catfish spreading throughout our countries river systems. I have to say, so would I.

 

As for knocking these "Alien" fish on the head, that is, in my opinion an awful requirement to be legally thrust upon an English angler. Unlike our American cousins who's chosen species are different to our own in the fact that most actually taste nice, English anglers have grown up with the tradition that our course fish are not for eating but are for sport only. Anyway, can any of you imagine sitting down to a freshly pan fried Bream!

 

Although I DONT want to see the spread of "Alien" species in our rivers or indeed in my chosen river, I would prefer to live with the Wells and let others paid and qualified to remove them do so. That is of course if such an undertaking could ever physically take place which I personally doubt on the River Trent because of its size.

[Guest Keith]

Originally posted by tony jolley:

 

I obviously came on too strong, for that i appologise but the fact is a lot of anglers,

and poeple in general dont know what affect removeing fish make to a water, I dont think we should encourage the action,

I hope no one feels offended by what I have written,

CONVERTED I HOPE SO,

 

[/b]

 

Tony,

 

naah - I was was tired and full of hell with my job when I wrote and my comments probably read more harshly than I'd intended.

 

No offence meant.

 

I know that there is a problem with regard to eels and pike (my own club water has lost lots of BIG pike to the kind of tosspot you refer to), but I really hope that - on this forum at least - the fish killers are in a tiny minority.

 

 

------------------

Keith

 

Blyth,

Northumberland

 

mailto:keith@go-fishing.co.ukkeith@go-fishing.co.uk

http://www.wacacnet.co.uk

 

[This message has been edited by Keith (edited 05 July 2001).]

[Guest Newt]

Could someone please explain to this "over the pond" angler why having Wels in a particuar water would be a problem? From what I can read, they are a great fish to catch. Yes, their diet does consist mainly of smaller fish but I doubt they would make major inroads into the local population unless you were putting them in a small puddle.

 

Reason I ask is that we have a situation in the US where carp are often blamed for every problem that occurs with a lake - muddy the water, eat all the eggs/fry, etc. Even our fisheries (EA) "professionals" can be heard saying such things. They are mostly wrong but since carp can survive and sometimes thrive in water that won't support less hardy species, they seem to get the blame. I'm wondering if the Wels has the same undeserved bad reputation or if they really cause significant problems.

[Guest Peter Waller]

What should I have done? I actually, and genuinly, caught a ghost carp on a lure this evening. No way is it a natural resident. About 3 or 4 pounds I suppose. Since I was after pike it was, I suppose, a nuisence fish. But then I can claim the record lure caught ghost carp off Oulton Broad. Weeeehayyyy, fame at last!! The chance of it breeding is, I suppose, remote, unless it has a mate or can cross breed. Yes, I did return it.

[Guest ALAN FAWCETT]

I never have & never would kill ANY fish unless it was for one of the two following reasons:

 

1) It was suffering

2) It's going to be eaten

 

Even if it meant a fine or imprisonment i would still release it!

 

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TROGG (Alan)

 

my sites here

[Guest tony jolley]

Keith!

no need!!!

I simpathise with your waters problems and I too hope we are "the enlighted"

Newt!

I think one of the reasons that the wells is hated is again lack of information.

I dont know the situation in the U S, inregards anglers fishing in matches and for the smaller species ( wells food) but over here all the predator fish seem to be mis-understood as "fish munching machines with insaciable want for fish as food"

If you go to some of the a,g,ms of these clubs you would always see someone stand up and say "Bloody Pike or cats or nuicence Eels,or Zander,( i leave perch out because they like to catch them) they need taking out as we cant catch any fish"

blameing the predators for a lack of angling skill. and ability to handle the fish correctly,

 

 

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Tony B.T Jolley

[Guest Newt]

Originally posted by tony jolley:

I think one of the reasons that the wells is hated is again lack of information.

I dont know the situation in the U S, inregards anglers fishing in matches and for the smaller species ( wells food) but over here all the predator fish seem to be mis-understood as "fish munching machines with insaciable want for fish as food"

If you go to some of the a,g,ms of these clubs you would always see someone stand up and say "Bloody Pike or cats or nuicence Eels,or Zander,( i leave perch out because they like to catch them) they need taking out as we cant catch any fish"

blameing the predators for a lack of angling skill. and ability to handle the fish correctly,

 

Thanks Tony. As for matches as you folk do match fishing, we have somewhere between none and almost none. There are probably less than 1000 pole fishermen total in the US and that may be way high. I know I've been fishing for over 50 years now in a number of states and have never seen a pole.

 

Most people here fishing for small fish (usually a sunfish of some sort or perch in winter thru the ice) are fishing or food. The sunfish, at least, breed so fast that the problem is to keep the population down so some can grow to a reasonable size. 1/2 lb is a nice size sunfish, 1 lb is large, and 2lbs is likely a record of some sort.

 

Odd thing but US anglers seem quite willing to accept that the popular larger preditor fish such as black bass (largemouth and smallmouth), the 3 major species of catfish, pike/pickerel/walleye, and the like will eat some smaller fish. In fact, a 50lb flathead usually likes his meals swimming around and in the 3-6lb range.

 

However, they are quite willing to believe that carp is an evil fish - no good to no one for no thing. When I go to buy bait or am launching my boat, a question of "what are you after" will bring smiles if I say "bass", suggestions if I say "catfish" and a dead silence with strange looks if I say "carp" or the occasional "you really fish for those things?".

 

It's a good thing that many catfishermen use groundbait (chum as they call it here) else I would have people thinking my buckets of groundbait were my lunch or something.