Time to set our own mls limits higher?

[steve good]

Hi Steve

Perhaps I should have put it better. What I should have said is, the commercial size limits. I know it isn't the commercial fishermen who set the MLS, although they seem to argue against raised MLS's most of the time, ie, when the Cod MLS was raised from 30cm to 35cm the same arguments were made then as are being made now against the bass MLS increase. I have also heard that the same arguments were made when the bass MLS was increased to 36cm.

 

Anyway, my point was that regardless of what the commercial MLS for a species is, as anglers, (who moan about lack of bigger fish), we ought to use what we deem as a resonable MLS for the species we catch.

 

hi steve

 

i don't really think commercials are against bass mls going up, its the way it is being done and who will not be affected by it, is why the commercials are resisting it

 

steve

[stavey]

It has been mentioned previously in this thread that match anglers would be against an increase in size limits and / or against conservation. This is certainly not case as far as the UKs leading match organisation the Sea Anglers Match Federation (SAMF) is concerned.

 

As a federation all our major events such as the Masters Final and Sea League Final and many open competitions around the country organised by SAMF members have been measure and return for the last few years. Our current system is a mesurement converted to weiht ratio chart which has proved extremely popular. Straight measure and return did not allow for any luck element by rewarding a big fish with points or weight in relative terms, e.g. a 3 lb Cod is only about 50cms and could easily be beaten by two whiting. The new system actually gives roughly points equivalent to the weight of the fish. All fish over 18cm regardless of species count.

 

Before anyone tries to criticise the 18cm limit it is important to note that current size limit for our main target fish Pout & Rockling have an 18cm size limit anyway and so hooks used etc will on average be 2. When we fished to size limits all of the other fish were still caught and returned if undersize. Now they are simply measured, recorded and returned. The system encourages anglers to work at catching fish rather than just sitting and waiting for the lucky big fish, it also helps avoid many blanks during the early part of the year.

 

Surely our way which is to return all fish to the sea is better? Obviously is someone catches a fish they want to take home for the pot they are welcome to do so. If anyone would like a copy of the chart we use for their club matches please see the attachment.

 

 

garfish, correct me if i am wrong? match angling etiquette is to catch as many small fish as you can? and your system does not do anything but to encourage more of it,

 

I am sick to death of seeing sea angling so called clubs making match angling the be all and end all of their agenda, i know as i sit on one of these committee's every month, i am not there for the club match side of things but for conservation, personaly i dont give a jot about the same old faces winning every year, but as soon as you mention changing a few things for the average anglers benefit like bigger mls sizes all you get is told to shut up,the hardest people i have found to get to sign up to the defra consultation is match anglers i wonder why? i would be happy if they took bass/mullet etc of the list for match anglers, and some how i think they not mind, you know?????

[garfish]

garfish, correct me if i am wrong? match angling etiquette is to catch as many small fish as you can? and your system does not do anything but to encourage more of it,

 

I am sick to death of seeing sea angling so called clubs making match angling the be all and end all of their agenda, i know as i sit on one of these committee's every month, i am not there for the club match side of things but for conservation, personaly i dont give a jot about the same old faces winning every year, but as soon as you mention changing a few things for the average anglers benefit like bigger mls sizes all you get is told to shut up,the hardest people i have found to get to sign up to the defra consultation is match anglers i wonder why? i would be happy if they took bass/mullet etc of the list for match anglers, and some how i think they not mind, you know?????

 

Stavey, you have completely the wrong idea about match angling. The idea is to catch what is front of you and not to waste your time trying to catch what might be there. If there are larger fish such a as Cod, Bass etc to be caught during a match then we would we fish for them. However, this is eldom the case. In Hampshire where I live very few fish large fish (over 1 1/2 lb) are caught in the matches I fish from the shore. There are Bass caught in matches although in fairness they are caught accidentally whilst fishing for other smaller fish. The bottom line is is that we either fish for small fish Pout, Rockling etc or blank.

 

Angling is a sport for everyone and we all have our preferences. Personally I do not have the patience to wait about targetting a big fish. I like to have ten minute maximum casts and catch lots of fish I do not eat fish and the majority of matches I fish are measure & return. Many others have the same preference. We do not criticise other anglers for specimen hunting and targetting large fish that are the main breeding stock.

[stavey]

Stavey, you have completely the wrong idea about match angling. The idea is to catch what is front of you and not to waste your time trying to catch what might be there. If there are larger fish such a as Cod, Bass etc to be caught during a match then we would we fish for them. However, this is eldom the case. In Hampshire where I live very few fish large fish (over 1 1/2 lb) are caught in the matches I fish from the shore. There are Bass caught in matches although in fairness they are caught accidentally whilst fishing for other smaller fish. The bottom line is is that we either fish for small fish Pout, Rockling etc or blank.

 

Angling is a sport for everyone and we all have our preferences. Personally I do not have the patience to wait about targetting a big fish. I like to have ten minute maximum casts and catch lots of fish I do not eat fish and the majority of matches I fish are measure & return. Many others have the same preference. We do not criticise other anglers for specimen hunting and targetting large fish that are the main breeding stock.

 

 

Fair comment garfish, i just dont know how grown men can get any satisfaction from catching 99% of the time immature fish three at a time (and if they could ues six hooks they would) on none sporting telegraph poles just because that is all there is there, the match angling seen needs to be looked at seriously and brought up to date, to be deliberately targetting small fish with multy small hook rigs disgusts me, what is wrong in using one hook only? that would be a start, you could also use circle hooks with a minimum size?etc,

 

I have no intention of upsetting anyone but i am sure i am not the only one to feel the way i do about match fishing and its my opinion of what i think, all it does is to keep the catch as many as you can age old mentality of our prehistoric ancestors alive and that is not necessary today in the modern world, pleasure/sport anglers attitudes are changing and it is time the match anglers done the same as well instead of dragging their feet.............

[Leon Roskilly]

For specialist anglers, the thrill is finding and outwitting, then battling with large fish that can put a bend into your rod (selected to best handle the fish and to transmit information to the angler during the fight).

 

For match anglers, the thrill is in doing better than the guy next to you, and hopefully all of the other guys along the beach.

 

That also takes knowledge and skill (just as much, if not more than speciman fishing), and the satisfaction at winning just as much as finally getting a big fish into the net for a specialist angler.

 

A decent 'pot' only adds to the excitement a hundredfold!

 

Both disciplines are striving toward adapting their techniques and practices towards greater conservation measures.

 

It's just that some are slow to adapt age-old practices and customs, much as many pleasure anglers (not yet specialist or match anglers - maybe they never will be) still treat their catch with disrespect.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Leon Roskilly

[garfish]

Stavey,

unfortunately you have just revelaed how limited and how predjudiced you really are. You have obviously not taken the time to think about what you are actually saying. Match anglers do not target immature fish, just smaller fish. Our main target fish at this time year on my part of the coast is Rockiling. In relative terms a 20cm Rockling (3 1/2 oz) is like catching a 5lb plus Bass as it is a mature fish. Our main target fish in the Spring are Pout, again a species that does not grow to a large size. Summertime is Eels, Garfish etc, immature fish fish of these species are rarely caught and all the fiush we target are over 18cm. You will also note that the fish we target are not popular with the commercial boys and as we put almost all fish back anyway. In nearly all pegged matches an angler can be disqualified if litter is his found on his or her peg after a match whether or not it was their litter, thus ensuring beaches are left cleaner than when we found them. I consider we care more about the environment as much as if not more than most specimen anglers.

 

Your comment that you find it hard to beleive we gain satisfaction from catching the fish we target is very predjudiced. We could say the same about Bass fishing. I have caught quite a few Bass in the 5lb plus bracket in matches and while pleasure fishing using size 2 hooks and 12lb mainline, all have been wound straight in without any fight or drama to speak of, just the usual slack tight, slack tight feeling as they try and swim. In my opinion pound for pound they are one of the least sporting fish on our coasts. Pound for pound Smoothhound, Tope, Mackerel, Scad, Garfish, Bream, Wrasse & Triggerfish all fight better than Bass.

 

The fact certain anglers enjoying fishing for Bass and are prepared to put themselves out to try and conserve the stocks is commendable. Because of the efforts of these people I have endorsed the BMP etc. Unfortunatley people like you and your narrow minded views do nothing for your cause. We do not criticise what you do and most match anglers are prepared to support you and others in achieving what you believe in as fellow anglers. It is a shame you do not have the decency to do same for us.

[stavey]

Stavey,

unfortunately you have just revelaed how limited and how predjudiced you really are. You have obviously not taken the time to think about what you are actually saying. Match anglers do not target immature fish, just smaller fish. Our main target fish at this time year on my part of the coast is Rockiling. In relative terms a 20cm Rockling (3 1/2 oz) is like catching a 5lb plus Bass as it is a mature fish. Our main target fish in the Spring are Pout, again a species that does not grow to a large size. Summertime is Eels, Garfish etc, immature fish fish of these species are rarely caught and all the fiush we target are over 18cm. You will also note that the fish we target are not popular with the commercial boys and as we put almost all fish back anyway. In nearly all pegged matches an angler can be disqualified if litter is his found on his or her peg after a match whether or not it was their litter, thus ensuring beaches are left cleaner than when we found them. I consider we care more about the environment as much as if not more than most specimen anglers.

 

Your comment that you find it hard to beleive we gain satisfaction from catching the fish we target is very predjudiced. We could say the same about Bass fishing. I have caught quite a few Bass in the 5lb plus bracket in matches and while pleasure fishing using size 2 hooks and 12lb mainline, all have been wound straight in without any fight or drama to speak of, just the usual slack tight, slack tight feeling as they try and swim. In my opinion pound for pound they are one of the least sporting fish on our coasts. Pound for pound Smoothhound, Tope, Mackerel, Scad, Garfish, Bream, Wrasse & Triggerfish all fight better than Bass.

 

The fact certain anglers enjoying fishing for Bass and are prepared to put themselves out to try and conserve the stocks is commendable. Because of the efforts of these people I have endorsed the BMP etc. Unfortunatley people like you and your narrow minded views do nothing for your cause. We do not criticise what you do and most match anglers are prepared to support you and others in achieving what you believe in as fellow anglers. It is a shame you do not have the decency to do same for us.

 

 

Garfish, all of what you have just said is typical of a match angler's mentality, if conservation was left to you guys to promote then nothing would ever even get mentiond let alone get off the ground in any way, i dont even think a letter to an mp would be sent unless the letter was constructed and typed so that all they had to do was sign it?.

 

Thank you for taking the time for responding to to the consultation i dont know where you are located but i hope that if these measures get past that it improves your angling in the coming years?

 

From stating that match anglers target small fish, it would seem they are quite happy with the way the fish stocks are at present? i have found this to be the case in my local club. There is no catch and release practiced here, they are quite happy to kill a bass of 41cm to win the beer money then half the time they dont even take it home to eat! giving it to the chinese restaurant for a prawn cracker, they have been quite happy to let other people(including myself) clean up the the dead fish left after the weigh in when i dont even fish these competitions.

 

As for bass not being a sporting species? well i have to dissagree with you entirely, firstly garfish you have to be a sport angler, and secondly you have to use the appropriate tackle as well

as you are a match angler that is totaly understandable, try using a 6-7 weight fly rod and land your 5lb bass on this! you may change your opinion?

 

Garfish i dont have to prove to you or anybody what i have been doing or have done in the past 2-3 years on conservation matters and if you think my views are prejudise against match angling then thats your opinion, i dont realy give a jot, i seek out facts in my area and i make opinions on what i have found, and i say what i think, i guess diplomacy is not my strong point, and i have admitted when i am proved wrong that i am wrong on here sometimes, i wish you all the luck in the future catching tiddlers to help prove your the man! and any money that goe's with it. cheers..........

[Pout]

Time Gentlemen Please: Garfish & Stavey, take along long at your recent posts and then ask yourself why you go fishing, pretty simple really, its because you ENJOY the aspect of angling which you undertake but for heaves sake don’t knock others just because their aspect of the sport does not fit into you own narrow field.

Personally, I do go match fishing, because I ENJOY it, I also trot a float down the Hampshire Avon for chub and dace because I ENJOY it. I also occasionally float fish a live prawn along the Purbecks for bass because I ENJOY it, I am not a specimen hunter because I do not personally enjoy that aspect of the sport but I would certainly not criticise those who do, in-fact I often admire those who have the patience so sit waiting for hours at a time for a bite, but alas it not for me.

All anglers whether they be specimen hunters, match or pleasure anglers do it because they ENJOY that aspect of the sport, its about ENJOYMENT for heavens sake. If only you guys could accept that anglers ENJOY different aspects of the sport and then put your energy into working for the sport as a whole, Sea Angling may have a chance but while you constantly bicker amongst yourself I feel the sport which I love is doomed.

[FishingGuernsey]

Time Gentlemen Please: Garfish & Stavey, take along long at your recent posts and then ask yourself why you go fishing, pretty simple really, its because you ENJOY the aspect of angling which you undertake but for heaves sake don't knock others just because their aspect of the sport does not fit into you own narrow field.

Personally, I do go match fishing, because I ENJOY it, I also trot a float down the Hampshire Avon for chub and dace because I ENJOY it. I also occasionally float fish a live prawn along the Purbecks for bass because I ENJOY it, I am not a specimen hunter because I do not personally enjoy that aspect of the sport but I would certainly not criticise those who do, in-fact I often admire those who have the patience so sit waiting for hours at a time for a bite, but alas it not for me.

All anglers whether they be specimen hunters, match or pleasure anglers do it because they ENJOY that aspect of the sport, its about ENJOYMENT for heavens sake. If only you guys could accept that anglers ENJOY different aspects of the sport and then put your energy into working for the sport as a whole, Sea Angling may have a chance but while you constantly bicker amongst yourself I feel the sport which I love is doomed.

[stavey]

Time Gentlemen Please: Garfish & Stavey, take along long at your recent posts and then ask yourself why you go fishing, pretty simple really, its because you ENJOY the aspect of angling which you undertake but for heaves sake don’t knock others just because their aspect of the sport does not fit into you own narrow field.

Personally, I do go match fishing, because I ENJOY it, I also trot a float down the Hampshire Avon for chub and dace because I ENJOY it. I also occasionally float fish a live prawn along the Purbecks for bass because I ENJOY it, I am not a specimen hunter because I do not personally enjoy that aspect of the sport but I would certainly not criticise those who do, in-fact I often admire those who have the patience so sit waiting for hours at a time for a bite, but alas it not for me.

All anglers whether they be specimen hunters, match or pleasure anglers do it because they ENJOY that aspect of the sport, its about ENJOYMENT for heavens sake. If only you guys could accept that anglers ENJOY different aspects of the sport and then put your energy into working for the sport as a whole, Sea Angling may have a chance but while you constantly bicker amongst yourself I feel the sport which I love is doomed.

 

 

Ok pout i will put a sock in it, i will leave it at that, no offence garfish, you do what you do! and i will do what i do........