What happened to the Clyde?

[Jaffa]

The collapse of the Clyde commercial and RSA fishing for herring and cod is something many of us have heard about.

 

I was educated/brought up to believe the herring fishing collapsed as the fleets abandoned their drift nets and switched to first ring nets,then the "ultra efficient" purse seine.

 

On cod; i can remember the magazine reports of the great fishing at the Gantocks (spelling?) , and assumed that the trawlers pretty much overdid it and wiped them out.

 

I have an itch though, and its due to reading a report on discards in the Clyde. Perhaps i imagined this, but im sure it said that Norway pout stocks dominated discards, but then just stopped. Anyone have a link to that paper? or a view on what happened there? Be nice if they actually had experience of the Clyde or worthwhile links

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

[seaside]

The collapse of the Clyde commercial and RSA fishing for herring and cod is something many of us have heard about.

 

I was educated/brought up to believe the herring fishing collapsed as the fleets abandoned their drift nets and switched to first ring nets,then the "ultra efficient" purse seine.

 

On cod; i can remember the magazine reports of the great fishing at the Gantocks (spelling?) , and assumed that the trawlers pretty much overdid it and wiped them out.

 

I have an itch though, and its due to reading a report on discards in the Clyde. Perhaps i imagined this, but im sure it said that Norway pout stocks dominated discards, but then just stopped. Anyone have a link to that paper? or a view on what happened there? Be nice if they actually had experience of the Clyde or worthwhile links

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.

 

The Clyde is now primarily a langoustine fishery, but it has roughly a ton of discard for every four ton langoustine (conservative estimate), local non-nephrops skippers would tell you it's a lot more. Discards consist primarily of Whiting, Poor cod, Dab, Hake, Norway pout, Witch, Plaice, Cod.

 

The West Coast cod stocks are now in their worst state ever.

 

What happened to the Clyde; Austen Brown (ex Clyde Fishermen's Association)

 

“ I will give you a short history of how we have got to where we are. Most of the fish-stocks problems have arisen from the deployment of technology over the past 30 years or so.

 

Cheap fuel has allowed more power to be used to tow bigger nets. The invention of bobbins and rock hoppers allowed fishermen to explore vast areas of hard ground, which had hitherto been breeding-stock reserves similar to the no-take zones that are proposed by some of the Cornishmen.

 

Multiple rigs now allow larger white-fish boats to operate profitably pursuing ground fish and prawns, thereby undermining the markets that are relied on by many of our member fishermen.

 

The invention of the semi-pelagic trawl has almost completely annihilated the former deep-water breeding stocks of cod, hake, haddock and whiting in our area. Fish now have nowhere to hide; they are chased from the shore to the deepest water and virtually everywhere is towed. “

 

Essentially since the demise of the 3-mile limit in 1984, the mobile sector in the Clyde has been fishing more or less right up to the beaches; every species is near commercial exhaustion except langoustine, and no doubt they will go the same way too.

 

The Clyde spawning herring stock collapsed when an algal bloom descended on the spawning grounds at Ballantrae banks in the late 1980s. Herring were originally fished by ring netting, which was overtaken by pair trawling, which the Clyde Fishermans Assoc did its best to prevent. However, the government of the day (sound familiar) didn't have the **lls to back them and ban it.

 

Patrick Stewart ( current Clyde Fishermans Assoc ) " A combination of too intense fishing effort and adverse ecological conditions contributed to the demise of the herring. There are still some herring, but they are not fished in any commercial quantities.

 

The situation has changed. In my view, it has changed for the worse, but there it is. That happens in life. "

 

You may feel that's a pretty pragmatic view, or may feel it's a cop-out. Either which way, it does recognise what the results of unconstrained overfishing are.

 

What is perhaps even more galling is the fact that even though it's all well documented and understood, neither the commercial bodies nor the government is willing to introduce the techniques and technologies that would allow langoustine to be fished sustainably whilst minimising by-catch and discards.

 

The lack of good fish stocks doesn't just affect RSA, it is costing the Clyde area around £5million/yr in lost tourism revenue, has cost the jobs of around 50 charter skippers and a substantial number of inshore commercial boats.

 

It's not too late, but will the Exec and Mr Finnie get their act in order ????

[stavey]

The Clyde is now primarily a langoustine fishery, but it has roughly a ton of discard for every four ton langoustine (conservative estimate), local non-nephrops skippers would tell you it's a lot more. Discards consist primarily of Whiting, Poor cod, Dab, Hake, Norway pout, Witch, Plaice, Cod.

 

The West Coast cod stocks are now in their worst state ever.

 

What happened to the Clyde; Austen Brown (ex Clyde Fishermen's Association)

 

“ I will give you a short history of how we have got to where we are. Most of the fish-stocks problems have arisen from the deployment of technology over the past 30 years or so.

 

Cheap fuel has allowed more power to be used to tow bigger nets. The invention of bobbins and rock hoppers allowed fishermen to explore vast areas of hard ground, which had hitherto been breeding-stock reserves similar to the no-take zones that are proposed by some of the Cornishmen.

 

Multiple rigs now allow larger white-fish boats to operate profitably pursuing ground fish and prawns, thereby undermining the markets that are relied on by many of our member fishermen.

 

The invention of the semi-pelagic trawl has almost completely annihilated the former deep-water breeding stocks of cod, hake, haddock and whiting in our area. Fish now have nowhere to hide; they are chased from the shore to the deepest water and virtually everywhere is towed. “

 

Essentially since the demise of the 3-mile limit in 1984, the mobile sector in the Clyde has been fishing more or less right up to the beaches; every species is near commercial exhaustion except langoustine, and no doubt they will go the same way too.

 

The Clyde spawning herring stock collapsed when an algal bloom descended on the spawning grounds at Ballantrae banks in the late 1980s. Herring were originally fished by ring netting, which was overtaken by pair trawling, which the Clyde Fishermans Assoc did its best to prevent. However, the government of the day (sound familiar) didn't have the **lls to back them and ban it.

 

Patrick Stewart ( current Clyde Fishermans Assoc ) " A combination of too intense fishing effort and adverse ecological conditions contributed to the demise of the herring. There are still some herring, but they are not fished in any commercial quantities.

 

The situation has changed. In my view, it has changed for the worse, but there it is. That happens in life. "

 

You may feel that's a pretty pragmatic view, or may feel it's a cop-out. Either which way, it does recognise what the results of unconstrained overfishing are.

 

What is perhaps even more galling is the fact that even though it's all well documented and understood, neither the commercial bodies nor the government is willing to introduce the techniques and technologies that would allow langoustine to be fished sustainably whilst minimising by-catch and discards.

 

The lack of good fish stocks doesn't just affect RSA, it is costing the Clyde area around £5million/yr in lost tourism revenue, has cost the jobs of around 50 charter skippers and a substantial number of inshore commercial boats.

 

It's not too late, but will the Exec and Mr Finnie get their act in order ????

 

Hi seaside

 

It all sounds so sad and familiar down here at the southern end of this tiny island aswell, if it was not for the match anglers and their pathetic beer money catches of nothing! recreational sea angling would have been dead a long long time ago imo, lets face it the commercials and their representatives have done a pretty good job of **cking it up for everyone, they just have'nt the ****s to admit it and probably never will have..........

Edited December 8, 2006 by stavey

[Jaffa]

Hi Seaside,

 

Do you think it might be the case that the Clyde mobile guys have opposed projects like COAST, because they see it as the "thin end of the wedge", rather than any judgment on the projects actual threat to their businesses?

 

Hi Stavey btw

 

Chris

[stavey]

Hi Stavey btw

 

Chris

 

Hi chris

 

Pretty much past caring much anymore, i dont sea fish now so personaly aint much involved, i do still have my opinion and thats why i pop in time to time to voice it, i have other hobbies that are directly in my control thank god! and maybe one day i will return to sea angling but i shal not hold my breath, cheers...............

[seaside]

Hi Seaside,

 

Do you think it might be the case that the Clyde mobile guys have opposed projects like COAST, because they see it as the "thin end of the wedge", rather than any judgment on the projects actual threat to their businesses?

 

Hi Stavey btw

 

Chris

 

Chris - my interpretation is that there's a fair amount of that, as one of those against the Arran NTZ did say - "We cannot take chances with people's livelihoods and have diversification from fishing, because a proposal such as that for Lamlash bay would cause hundreds of proposals to pop up all over the place and fishermen would fish in a square inch. The situation is extremely dangerous."

 

But I'd say there's also a growing recognition that NTZs and other forms of exclusion are on the cards so there's a great deal of positioning and horse trading going on

 

Another said as he been part of the Irish Sea Pilot, "...I could hardly be said to be opposed to the principle of marine protected areas. However, this proposal stands on its merits, and it has no merit....... It will deprive of the economic returns from the area those communities that have an equal interest in the area but which happen not to see it from their front doors."

 

A final contribution being "I understand the points of view of the Clyde Fishermen's Association and the Mallaig and North West Fishermen's Association: those guys have got to fish. Fishermen's rights are being eroded every day, and we must try to stem that erosion. I say that with the caveat that the Lamlash bay proposal is probably our best chance of doing something for the marine environment for the future. We should think about the future rather than today."

 

Yet key to everyone beginning to agree to COASTs' proposal was the proposed introduction of a scallop re-seeding project through some funding from the SNH and the Exec.

 

You can read a transcript of the entire proceedings of the COAST Petition to the Scottish Exec - Petition Lamlash Bay (No-take Zone and Marine Protected Area) (PE799) at

 

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business...602.htm#Col3437

[Jaffa]

Thanks very much for that Seaside.

 

Very interesting read and optimistic too; or at least it seemed so until Ross Finnies contribution. Going to have to reread that bit though; very heavy going.....

 

Prior to that , both "sides" were making valid points and put them across well; maybe there is some hope !

 

btw, do you know anything about the "barren" state of Broad Bay that John Hermse was alleging?

 

Cheers,

Chris.