Big bream

[Anderoo]

When discussing this with one syndicate member recently he told me that his veiw was to just fish carp style for the tench and hope that a bream would eventually come along.There certainly have been several pointers that sugest that a swim fished and baited for tench over a period of time often goes quiet (tench wise) after a period and sometimes this is when the Bream are caught.

 

I'm doing the opposite this year - fishing for the bream and taking any tench as bonuses. To be fair there's not a lot of difference between the two species. Rigs and bait are pretty much the same. The differences as I see it are swim choice, type and amount of groundbait, and timing of feeding.

 

With (big) tench I like very tight, accurate feeding, and very light feeding at that, most bait being introduced in PVA or feeders. With bream I'm spreading fine groundbait over a much bigger area (which suits my spodding ability ). The main problem with that, is that a big bed of feed/attraction can bring in a lot of smaller tench, if they're in the area. Not only do they eat everything but cause constant disturbance.

 

When I say big area, I'm talking about 20-odd spods of groundbait on each spot, spread over about 15ft x 15ft. With big tench, I'd try my best to put a couple of spods at most of maggots, hemp and micro pellet with a few bits of corn on a spot the size of a dustbin lid and fish a feeder over the top.

 

With tench I'd top up the feed at dawn, as they like a bit of food-related disturbance. With bream the whole lot goes in at about lunchtime/early afternoon so it's all quiet and settled for several hours before dark (unless it's been eaten!).

 

I could be proved wrong, but I don't expect to catch a really big tench fishing for bream. If I am proved wrong, that would be just fine! I'd rather have a big tench when breaming than a big bream when tenching. But I would be surprised.

 

I am fishing much more 'carp style' than 'traditional', both as a consequence of eels and other nuisance fish and for the sake of my confidence and sanity. I have no problems with bolt rigs in the right circumstances, and this is exactly the right circumstance in my opinion!

 

I do also agree with others that there are only so many tench in front of you. They definitely have their own little areas. If conditions remain the same and you suddenly stop catching, I reckon you've got them all. Maybe this can help attract the bream over? I don't know. But if the tench are active I reckon you need to fish for them hard and try to catch them all, or move swims (if you can bear to!).

 

The bigger bed of feed (virtually all attraction, hardly any food in it, as said before) does seem to bring in a lot of tench, whereas the tight little piles seems to pick off the bigger ones as they wander around their little areas.

 

The trouble with my theories is that they rarely seem to last long

[poledark]

A slight digression here. Over the years I have caught carp (some very big ones) Tench, eels, bream and roach and rudd..and a few perch all on maggot and method tactics. So I am happy to count any of these species, even if fishing for another. What is the difference?

 

For me, there is none. If you fish a water with all these species, using a known successful method, then all catches are "legitimate", or is it that tench only count if you say you are tenching (even though the method is identical to what you use for bream?

 

Den

[Kappa]

I'm doing the opposite this year - fishing for the bream and taking any tench as bonuses. To be fair there's not a lot of difference between the two species. Rigs and bait are pretty much the same. The differences as I see it are swim choice, type and amount of groundbait, and timing of feeding.

 

I can't see too much of a difference in the approach to big tench and big bream. I just can't get my head around the difference. I haven't caught enough to make any firm conclusions but I have caught tench and bream over lots of bait and none at all!

 

My swim selection is based on where I think the bream will be but I'd expect to catch in the same places! I agree you might feed at dawn for the tench but I don't think you need to, and I don't want to do anything that may cost me a bream!

 

My tactics are pretty much, put out plenty of smell (no food), fish over the top with rigs that I feel with prick every fish that picks it up whether it moves or not, fish small baits with PVA bags holding plenty of attraction and food to get the fish to be drawn to my bait first once they are in the swim. In this way I'm kinda aiming to catch the roving fish rather than get them 'ripping up the bottom'.

 

Rich

[Anderoo]

A slight digression here. Over the years I have caught carp (some very big ones) Tench, eels, bream and roach and rudd..and a few perch all on maggot and method tactics. So I am happy to count any of these species, even if fishing for another. What is the difference?

 

For me, there is none. If you fish a water with all these species, using a known successful method, then all catches are "legitimate", or is it that tench only count if you say you are tenching (even though the method is identical to what you use for bream?

 

Den

 

No, not at all, it's just that I'd expect to catch bigger tench when fishing for them rather than when fishing for bream, for the reasons given above. Everything's 'legitimate' in my book, although I'd rather catch certain species on suitable tackle, e.g. a big roach on a match rod not a carp rod. Luckily, tackle for big bream and tench is the same.

 

When fishing for tench I wouldn't expect to catch any bream. There are some extremely good tench anglers who have fished Wingham a lot and who have not caught one of the bream. The main reason, aside from the baiting, is I'd be using fake baits.

 

I don't have anywhere near enough experience to be able to claim any authority on this, it's just what makes sense to me!

 

It is an interesting discussion though, and one Rich and I have had several times. I used to think that you can fish for everything at the same time, but I've slowly changed my mind. I think it's mainly psychological to be honest - I think I fish better if I'm fishing for a specific species. It helps me make decisions about how much and when to bait up, and what baits to use.

 

Last year Alex said to me that if you fish for the bream, you'll catch tench anyway. That seems to be true, but I'm sure it wouldn't work the other way around for me and the way I fish for tench. It will be interesting to see if I catch any of the big tench though, or just lots of small ones...

 

I hope that makes sense, I confuse myself sometimes

[Anderoo]

I've just been thinking more about this. Den and Rich, when you fish for more than one species, how do you choose where to fish and when to bait up? I think you both use maggots for hookbaits a lot too which is interesting. Do you have one main species in mind and choose a spot based on that? Or do you reckon a good spot is a good spot, regardless of species?

 

For example, if your lake suddenly only contained bream or only contained tench, would you do anything differently in terms of location, baiting, etc.?

 

I'm quite confused by it all now!

[3DoorsDown]

Thanks to all the contributors to this fascinating, informative and thought provoking thread, even though it has taken me a week to catch up !

 

It has certainly helped me decide a strategy for this weekend at Wingham, even though ( like Den ) it may mean I blank, especially if Den is in the next swim bagging up again

 

One question to all, as it has been mentioned, but no detail :

 

What length and material of hook length would you recommend ?

 

Nic

[Kappa]

I've just been thinking more about this. Den and Rich, when you fish for more than one species, how do you choose where to fish and when to bait up? I think you both use maggots for hookbaits a lot too which is interesting. Do you have one main species in mind and choose a spot based on that? Or do you reckon a good spot is a good spot, regardless of species?

 

For example, if your lake suddenly only contained bream or only contained tench, would you do anything differently in terms of location, baiting, etc.?

 

I'm quite confused by it all now!

 

At Wingham I'm almost always thinking of picking swims for bream based on my armchair theories! The difference is I expect to be able to catch tench from those spots as well, indeed, I think the feature you pick is going to be similar for tench and bream. So "good spot is a good spot". Again with baiting I do that in the middle of the day so as not to upset the bream. I really like using maggots, and although I use fake maggots I always put a few real ones on too but that is just because I can't bring myself to use a fake bait alone.

 

If there were no bream I'd fish pretty much the same only I'd bait up any time I felt it would help (maybe dawn), I'd be happy to fish in weedy swims, and maybe just maybe I'd try only fake maggots!

 

At Wingham I feel if you get the location right you'll catch tench whatever but obviously the right bait and to a lesser extent rigs help too!

 

Rich

[Kappa]

Thanks to all the contributors to this fascinating, informative and thought provoking thread, even though it has taken me a week to catch up !

 

It has certainly helped me decide a strategy for this weekend at Wingham, even though ( like Den ) it may mean I blank, especially if Den is in the next swim bagging up again

 

One question to all, as it has been mentioned, but no detail :

 

What length and material of hook length would you recommend ?

 

Nic

 

I'd say 3-6 inches of pretty much anything! I've done quite well on Drennan Sinkbraid (10lb bs) and I'm currently trying combi-rigs of flurocarbon and sinkbraid but I am a self confessed 'over-complicator'

 

Rich

[3DoorsDown]

Thanks Rich

 

Is the 3" intended to achieve the "prick" without a fish moving ?

 

Nic

[Anderoo]

At Wingham I'm almost always thinking of picking swims for bream based on my armchair theories! The difference is I expect to be able to catch tench from those spots as well, indeed, I think the feature you pick is going to be similar for tench and bream. So "good spot is a good spot". Again with baiting I do that in the middle of the day so as not to upset the bream. I really like using maggots, and although I use fake maggots I always put a few real ones on too but that is just because I can't bring myself to use a fake bait alone.

 

If there were no bream I'd fish pretty much the same only I'd bait up any time I felt it would help (maybe dawn), I'd be happy to fish in weedy swims, and maybe just maybe I'd try only fake maggots!

 

At Wingham I feel if you get the location right you'll catch tench whatever but obviously the right bait and to a lesser extent rigs help too!

 

Rich

 

That is interesting - to me that sounds like you're fishing for bream but expecting to catch tench anyway!

 

Weed is another good point, for tench I'd want to be right up against thick weed.

 

3DD I also use about 4" of soft braid.