dizzyfish

I thought it was about time I used t'internet for something constructive. Having fished for over 30 years, mainly from the shore, with some fly fishing and pike fishing thrown in for good measure; I should be able to offer something interesting and maybe a bit different. For the last few years I have been concentrating almost exclusively on kayak fishing, and the webiste reflects this. Check it out.... Dizzy's kayak fishing website If you enjoy it, please subscribe to the site (I've got loads of new articles in the pipeline) or subscribe to my YouTube channel... Dizzy's kayak fishing videos Enjoy

Zzippy - Great review - loads of info. - I liked the look of it, because it appears much easier to set-up/store than the pacific action sail. Looks like the sort of thing you could stash in the hatch 'just in case'. Does anyone sell it over here yet - and how much hassle was it getting it from the states ?

Mark - Now you have seen the SI units up close and personal, do you think it is still feasible to fit one to a yak ? The SI transducer will not fit in the scupper hole on OK's The transducer would have to be below the keel to get the SI working Any solution is going to be a bit heath robinson - but that does not detract from the fact that they look like the dog's doo da's. I was speaking to a guy in the US who sent me pictures of an OK Big Game which had a 797 SI fitted on a bracket - but it did not look great. I was just wondering with your new role if you knew if Hummingbird were planning any new mods to the SI setup particularly with reference to kayaks. Would be interested to know your thoughts.

SpeciMan - That is spot on - thankyou very much indeed.

I have a dry suit (goretex rig survival suit) and I have ripped one of the latex wrist seals - I am sure I read somewhere that they can be repaired (hoping I can do this as a DIY job). I am hoping someone can give me some more information.

Vlad - You seem to be following the same learning curve that I am. I tried out a Trident at the family adventure store (Trowbridge near Bath) this weekend. I have to say that the owner could not have been more helpful. I found that, like you, the reality was somewhat different to what I expected. What you have to remember is that most of the people on this forum are experienced kayakers - and as such their advice and help (fantastic though it is) - has to be tempered to relate to us "newbies". The problem that I found is that everything you read online tells you that "sit on tops are very stable" - I suspect that this is comparative ie. stable compared to say a sea kayak. I had seen pictures of people standing in sit on tops and assumed (as you did) that balance would not be a problem. I had never been on a kayak before and had my first experience on a canal (no waves at all). Just like you, I found it very difficult to balance and to keep the thing going in a straight line - it was quite windy. I thought exactly the same - how on earth would you cope with one of these things in the sea with waves, tide and wind ?? It is obviously possible - I keep reading the reports and seeing the fantastic photos of richi, overrun, mark and the others and wondering how many hours I would have to put in before I could reach that level. My problem is one of time - what I would like to know from the yakkers is this - Do you have to keep practising ie. going out regularly; or it it one of those sports where after a certain amount of practise, something clicks and then balance is not a problem and even if you only go twice a year - you do not forget (ie. like riding a bike).

What about Tri-star angling and Kayak centre - Barmston near Bridlington :- Tri-star angling and kayak centre Referenced from a site I like :- Whitby kayakers Hope this helps

Thanks - I might not matter if it doesn't fit exactly, because in order for the side imaging to work the transducer would have to be below the lowest part of the kayak hull (the keel will block the left hand view of the side imagaing because it is below the transducer). Maybe a rod attached to the transducer stem which could be pulled up in normal operation, so the transducer sits in the transducer scupper hole (as much as it can). Then push the rod back down when using the side imaging. I will let you know more if/when I buy and fit to my dinghy. Thanks for all your help guys. I will probably be asking more questions about the kayaking later !!!!

Do you think you could find out what the dimenstions of the scupper hole are on the trident ? Also, is it in the middle of the kayak along the keel, or is it to one side ?

Got the info back from Humminbird on the through the hull plastic side imaging transducer option for the 797/997. All measurements approximate - 10cm thread, 15cms long, 7cms wide, 3cms thick. Got a picture and annotated it (below) :- Mark - Is this the same size as yours (ooohhhh errr missus !)

I have asked Humminbird to send me the dimensions of the plastic through the hull transducer - watch this space.

Thanks for the link - there is always a way ! I reckon if the scupper mounting is not a winner, then something along similar lines to the images in the link but maybe with a narrower diameter tube (less drag) and moveable. As you said if money was no object, it would be great to fit the quad transducer in the scupper hole and the side imaging transducer on an arm (the 797 appears to support the use of both transducers). Now just have to win the lottery.

Speciman - I thought that the best thing about the 797 SI, was that if you see a feature on the side imaging view - eg. a rocky outcrop 200 feet to the right of the boat - you can move the cursor to the feature on the screen and create a waypoint (I believe that it works out the offset) - then you can navigate to that exact point. Given that the side imaging can scan 480 feet (240 feet either side of the boat) - that is a really powerful feature. Something that I don't think any other fishfinder can do. As you say - its a shame about the price - could buy a Trident for that money and still have change. Thinking about the Navionics charts - if you had the side imaging switched on then you would probably not need to see the charts - so it would be just as easy to take out the SD card containing the charts and pop in your own SD card and record the information to that instead. Having seen alot of screenshots of the side imaging, the quality seems amazing, the nautical chart becomes a bit redundant. I am hoping to get a 797 for my dinghy - with the standard transducer - my hope is that someone maybe with a Trident could have a look at the plastic through the hull transducer and see if there is any way it could be fitted to the transducer enlarged scupper hole - failing that your suggestion of a movable arm would work. Maybe something similar to the rudders with a pulley system ?

The 797 SI has a narrower screen than the 997 and the power output is only (!) 400W on the 797. I also believe that the 997 has two SD card slots (whereas the 797 only has one) - this does not sound like a big deal - but actually, it does make a bit of a difference as you will see below. Both units have the ability to display Navionics marine charts (GPS built in) - but in the UK, the CE versions of the fishfinder do NOT inlcude the NVB variant. The NVB variant (in the US) has the Navionics maps pre-loaded on the unit's firmware (ie. not on an SD card). So in the UK, in order to get the Navionics maps working on the 797 or 997, you have to purchase a Navionics SD card with the UK Marine maps loaded on it (approx. £180 for UK chart - 28XG). I also believe that the maps are encrypted - so you cannot copy them to another SD card (ouch !). Anyway, back to the original point - if you have the maps loaded on the Navionics card, you cannot save SONAR screenshots or record/save to the same card (the firmware will not let you in case the maps get deleted I suspect). Not the end of the world, but a bit of a pain. With the 997, you could put another SD card in the other slot and record to this (or perhaps you just need to get out more !). As regards power the 797 SI only draws 650mA so that is not really an issue. 797i SI still seems like a great option (you really need to check out some of the images - 480 feet of high res. coverage !!!) except for the price (£999) and the fact that it seems difficult to attach the transducer to a kayak. I still think there might be a way of attaching the plastic through the hull transducer (XPTH9 HDSI 180T) into the scupper hole - you lot seem very resourceful - I am sure someone can think of a good way of doing this (blimey - if you can attach a min Kota to one then a transducer should not be a problem) !!!!!

Mark/SpeciMan - Many thanks for your help. Mark - I could not access the URL (think I have join the anglersafloat forum, which might be a good idea anyway) - but it sounds like your friend may have some answers - I would be grateful if he could help me. The 900 series are much wider across and I don't think this size would lend itself to mounting on a kayak - especially if trying to use the sonar shield on a trident. Take your point about mounting on the bottom of the kayak - I would also be worried that it would possibly rip off. However, I did wonder if it would fit in the transducer enlarged scupper hole with a bit of trimming !!! There is an optional plastic through hull transducer available for the 797 SI (XPTH9 HDSI 180T - catchy eh !) and it measures 6 inches long by 3 inches wide (think the stem is 3 or 4 inches) - I don't know if this is too big ? As you say, the only other option is to mount on an arm (or maybe a rudder ?). Any thoughts ? Does not sound like anyone is using the fully fledged side imaging units (as opposed to the 3D matrix models - only have a 53 degree window - and the side view shown on the portable unit you mentioned) on a kayak. The trouble is, that after seeing the results obtained with the proper SI units, I would really like one (call it sonar envy !!!).

So how can you attach a side imaging transducer to a kayak ? Sounds like the side imaging transducers have to be in the water eg Humminbird 797i SI. So how do you attach the transducer for a side imaging fishfinder ? None of them will fit in the scupper hole (without sticking out and getting bashed when the kayak gets dragged along the beach presumably) and you can't fit them inside the kayak. On the rudder maybe ? I am gutted - really fancied getting one of these but cannot think of a way of doing this without it either being a pain or adding drag to the kayak - Help !!!

Will a standard transom mount transducer work fitted inside the kayak hull ?

The problem is that I specifically wanted a fishfinder which allows me to see what terrain is either side of the boat (as explained in an earlier thread). The only fishfinders which (currently) do this are the Humminbird Matrix 47D 3D and the Humminbird Side Imaging (SI) series. The latter cost well over £1000, so the only option really is for the Matrix 47 3D (£400). The problem with this particular fishfinder is (from what I can see) that the standard transducer supplied will not fit in the scupper holes of a kayak (unless someone knows different ??) - it looks a different size/shape (it is a different transducer to the normal Humminbird ones). The thorugh the hull option again means more expense - I suspect £100 just for the transducer. You are right - I could get two transducers - the standard one for the dinghy and the through the hull for the kayak - but that is alot of money. I was hoping that maybe there was an easy way of attaching the standard transducer to the kayak (ie. in the scupper hole) Really wanted to know if anyone owns an Ocean Kayak and uses the Humminbird Matrix 47 3D - to see how they attached the transducer.

What other options are there if I do not locate the transducer in the scupper hole ? Presumably, given it is not a through the hull transducer (and that option is quite expensive), I cannot mount it inside the kayak ? (You will have to excuse my ignorance - I have not bought the kayak yet - and it is likely that the fishfinder will be purchased initially for my existing Pike fishing dinghy - I want to make sure it will easily fit the kayak when I get it !)

Does anyone know if the standard transducer you get with a Humminbird Matrix 47 3D fishfinder (I think the model number of the standard transducer for this model is SHS 7W) would fit on an Ocean Kayak Trident - ie. in the transducer compatible scupper hole ? The transducer on this model looks different to the others I have seen (probably because it has multiple transducers inside) :- Also, has anyone attached standalone handheld GPS recivers (Especially interested in Garmin ones) to the fishfinder - the PDF manual does not tell you much - suspect it is possible if the GPS unit supports NMEA - but not sure what sort of cable would be needed ? Any help from anyone who has used the Matrix 47 3D would be much appreciated.

You have to remember that telescopic rods really have come on in leaps and bounds over the last few years. Gone are the days when all they were good for, was bashing out a few bream/small mullet on a Spanish holiday before they were binned due to rusting. You get what you pay for though - lower end - try Shakespeare - cheap and mostly nasty; higher end - I would go with Shimano - their STC (Shimano Travel Concept) range covers just about every type of rod - light spinning to heavy boat rods. I am no Kayaking expert, but I have owned a Shimano Exage Telescopic 9 foot rod (TEXTS 270M) for a number of years. For a telescopic rod it has a really great action. This particular rod is a jack of all trades - due to the extra length I can use it for Mullet (at a stretch), bass, pollack - and spinning, plugging, live sandeels - light ledgering (casts up to about an ounce). Have you considered multi piece rods, rather than telescopics ? If you are after something a bit more beefy, then Shimano have just brought out a range of 4 piece carp rods for 2008 (Beastmaster AX specimen). Maybe not so good for kayaking as they are 12 footers ? Its a shame that Zziplex do not make a 3 or 4 piece travel rod - I wonder if Terry Carrol is reading this ?

Was reading about the new humminbird sidescanning sonar - I really wish I had a spare £1,500 ! 180 degree coverage - 150 feet either side of the boat - looks like a video. Can tell where everything is in relation to the boat. Can also mark points with the cursor on the screen and revisit with GPS. Very impressive. Video below shows some highlights :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOy5ml2GhiQ Those Americans do get quite excited don't they !!!!

Just looked at that 3D model (thanks for the URL's) - the Humminbird Matrix 47 3D - really does look the business ! Will have to contact the suppliers you mentioned and ask if possible/how much would be for a spare mount and transducer for that model. Suspect that a spare transducer for the 3D model might be expensive. What sort of thickness of hull will the transducer work through (my dinghy is made of marine ply which is quite thin). I have noticed that some of the reseviour boys mount their transducers at the bottom of a tube (guttering downpipe ?) and then attach the tube vertically to the side of the boat with a clamp so that the bottom of the tube where the transducer sits, is underwater (obviously no good for a kayak but might work for my dinghy/reseviour boat).

Thanks very much Mark - you are a mine of information and it sounds like you have been there and bought the T-shirt - as I suspected - fishfinders are really useful for determining type of bottom and depth and some fish (if you are lucky), but not much cop for identifying where they are in relation to the boat. This was also confirmed by an engineering friend (I think they are the only ones who's algebra works on a Sunday !). I am still wondering what the fishfinder shows for a given instant in time - given that some of the Humminbird models have a 90 degree cone (575 uses 3 frequencies) - but only display a single return for this. My engineering friend suspects they show the highest point on the scanned bottom (for obvious reasons when boating !) - but this could be really confusing. Imagine that in 30 feet of water the 60 (or 90) degree SONAR cone beneath the boat would cover quite a large area of sea/river bed which might have reefs (high) and hollows (low) - the single SOANR return on the display would probably only show the high reef point - thus you would not know that there was a large conger/pike/sea monster holding hollow just below the boat within the SONAR cone but not displayed on the fishfinder. I think that all of the manufacturers are very cagey about this - when you see the screen shots they use, the natural assumption (one which I think even seasoned and experienced fishfinder users still believe) is that the display is showing you a sidescan picture of the bottom beneath the boat on either side - this is simply not the case (apart from maybe the 3D models you mention). Thanks for the info. on the fishfinders - the Humminbird 565 and 575 both sound good - I noticed that they had a "quick disconnect mount" which presumably houses the conectors for power/transducer cables. You eluded to the fact that it may be possible to buy a separate transducer/mount - Do you know any more ? This would mean I could have a permanent transducer on a kayak, but then remove the unit to my dinghy and attach it to another quick release mount with (say) a portable transducer to attach to the inside of the hull ?

Thanks - But if you are right, then why does the Humminbird PDF documentation (for 565) refer to the display window as showing "a historical view" and "the most recent reading is inserted on the right hand side" ? Also, if the display always scrolls (right to left) regardless of the boat's speed; then what is the display showing if you are stationary ? And (sorry to labour the point) if you are correct (and I hope you are) - where is the boat in relation to the display - is the boat in the centre of the display (so features on the left hand side of the screen really are to the left of the boat and vice versa) ?