Bob Shotter

Being on a steering group that has only one purpose one that Mr Caines himself admits ‘will be a stick to beat anglers with’ was and is simply stupid. Cefas backed by DEFRA made it clear from the off that the purpose of the group was not to change policy but to see Angling 2012 provided as much data as possible. You seem to disregard the fact that the question was asked ‘Could DEFRA confirm the data would not be used against sea anglers’ They refused to give any such assurance so yes I personally will hound those involved be it Chris Caines the ATA, Angling Trust, or any of the other orgs that are selling anglers out rather than advising of the dangers. So yes Barry get used to it.

How nice to get some good news from a sea angling perspective. However at what cost? Here we have a case that clearly should never have been brought to court, having been biased on the decision of one man the Chief Officer who alone decides who the authority takes to court. One must ask is that legal given any UK police authority has to present cases to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)for a direction in relation to if there is a case to answer. Does this authority not have what is known as a watch committee? If not, why not? There has always been the question of ‘in the public interest’ about this case from the very start and now the Southern Inshore Fishery and Conservation Authority (SIFCA) will have to answer to the public about the cost of £120.000 of public funds wasted on this case. Then there is the human toll which has affected the family, the least the Carling family should expect is a public apology from the authority and some form of compensation?

I don’t need convincing Paul I know what’s coming in the way of restrictions, yet you have folk like Chris Caines and his PBA chums sitting on the steering group driving forward the data collection that will justify the restrictions, talk about bonkers.

Well for starters Paul, Barry doesn’t believe that DEFRA are talking about bag limits, I wish I could feel that comfortable about this data collection. Then you have the tree huggers that will use the word ‘CON-SER-VATION’ and how these pests should not be controlled, because they look so lovely, ahhh bless. We have a sanctuary down here that helps sick and injured ones back to health all paid for by charity donations I wonder if they would be so kind to Rats?

I would like some help from the European members of AN please, those of you who have to have a licence for sea angling and have other regulations of the sort that we can expect in the UK when we eventually come in line with the rest of Europe. Could you tell us of the impact that these changes have made to your angling and that is across the board be it shore private boat or charter fishing or even as a charter boat owner, you might also let us know how it has effected the tackle trade. It might also be helpful to have some idea what UK anglers need to do to comply with local laws if and when intending to fish in your country. Your help would be much appreciated thank you.

Got to agree there is no shortage of Blue Shark here in the South West even I can catch one.

Just one question Andy ‘what is the difference between a landowner and a web site owner?’ You want to have the right to have access to rivers that belongs to the landowner is that any different to having the right to access a web site like this one FM that also has an owner.

Again you miss the point I was not looking to get you banned it was a question ie it had a ‘?’ at the end of the sentence, suggesting you might well be miffed if you were banned having not broken any site rules or used any bad language (excluding your veiled explanative which once more has not gone unnoticed) One other point for the record, it was you Mr Luxton who first mentioned another challenge and ‘egg on face’ thus something you might have thought about when saying ‘It was also inappropriate to comment that on this site in any event. What has it got to do with anglers net. A Bl@@dy disgrace.’

I have no idea what is meant by your remark ‘how much money can be screwed out of a particular situation’ This has nothing to do with money and in my view neither Andy’s beef or mine for that matter involve anything other than challenging an injustice which in both case’s seems to be denial of access to what has been made an independent public debating platform. Clearly you have a personal beef with me and it now seems wish to pick on my every post, one could call that haresment rather than debate so should you be banned for that?

Well I have a similar problem with Mike T Jnr and his WSF forum and I sought legal advice the upshot of which was to use the part of the discrimination act that deals with ‘Protected characteristics’ that case is on-going so it would be inappropriate to comment further at this time. I will however let you know how it pans out be it with egg on face or simply a smile. Protected characteristics’ definition Religion and belief Religion has the meaning usually given to it but belief includes religious and philosophical beliefs including lack of belief (e.g. Atheism). Generally, a belief should affect your life choices or the way you live for it to be included in the definition. If Andy believes he should be allowed to use the waterways without hindrance then he may well have a case.

Andy, take note ‘Protected characteristics.’ Seems we have plenty of budding lawyer’s on here who might like to comment.

A bit like those working to bring ours in line with this management culture too don’t you think?

There is a saying that ‘Every Man Has His Price’ I know some that would sell their soul for the chance to simply be recognised. This daft idea is just another reason impo to keep British Sea Angling from becoming regulated.

Have to say I agree entirly Barry. Meanwhile the blame game goes on and those who some see as the real villains are allowed to continue without being held to account.

The biggest offenders are still to be dealt with so it might be prudent to wait until that happens before saying to much now. ‘Six more skippers, from Peterhead, have also admitted their part in the black fish fraud, worth almost £63m. They are still to be sentenced, along with four others.’

This is a hugely complex question that few of us are likely to be able to have a handle on let alone answer it in a few short sentences. My view would be to suspect that this has more to do with the funding aspect. The EU commissioner said last November that she needs eight billion euros to make the changes to fishing gear and monitoring equipment to bring discarding to an end. 2015 was always a vague date to get the job done in fact she only mentioned sustainability as the must be target to be achieved by then and that didn’t mean discarding would end at the same time, so is this statement a surprise, well its not to me and having listened to Hugh I suspect he will be of a similar opinion. That does not mean I approve of the situation or the comment about it being a knee jerk reaction. It about time these people were held to account for the failings.

Taking into account the recent post by moderator ‘John S’ I have answered you by PM Barry

Has he or the wonderful Angling Trust explained to anglers what the EU ‘Data Collection Framework’ is all about. No conspiracy theory to worry about then Barry we can rest easy now you have told us all is well yeah?

The Angling Trust made a press release today on the back of a new push by Cefas to get the project up and running. Here is what the Trust has said>>>> The government-sponsored Sea Angling 2012 project - collecting catch, economic and social data about sea angling in England - is underway! Here are the latest developments keeping you informed about what's going on and giving you the opportunity to get involved. Shore And Private Boat Surveys The shore and private boat surveys started at the end of January. Next time you are out fishing you may come across IFCA officers or independent contractors who will be asking you for information about your fishing session including where you've been fishing, what type of fishing you've been doing and what you've caught. The survey shouldn't take longer than 10 minutes to complete if you choose to answer it. Cefas Project Manager, Mike Armstrong, said, "I am very pleased at the positive response we have had from many anglers already interviewed whilst fishing around the English coast. I am confident that the surveys will provide the best information yet collected to demonstrate the social and economic benefits of sea angling in England, and will help us to develop a better scientific understanding of the fish stocks around our coasts." Economic and Social Benefits Survey The online survey has now been launched and can be accessed HERE. Your response will help assess the economic value and social benefits of angling as well as providing invaluable information about the importance of sea angling to the nation. The results will provide an up to date economic value of recreational sea angling in England, building on the results of the Drew Associates report carried out in 2004. The research is being undertaken by Substance in partnership with the Universities of Cardiff and Newcastle. Substance has considerable experience in research into angling and recently launched Fishing for Answers, the Final Report of their three year Big Lottery-funded project into the social and community Benefits of Angling. The final report for that study can be accessed HERE. The economic and social research into sea angling will also involve face-to-face questionnaires with sea anglers in five case study sites in different regions, along with business surveys in those areas, so we know more about the local impact of sea angling on coastal communities. The study runs for all of 2012 and will report in spring 2013. Household Survey January also saw the start of the Office for National Statistics (ONS) household surveys with face to face interviews being carried out at addresses selected at random from postcodes throughout England Scotland and Wales. The ONS survey will run over the next twelve months and collect data from approximately 25,000 households. Initial results from the trail run indicated that the total number of sea anglers in Great Britain is similar to previous estimates given in studies including the Drew Associates report from 2004. New Flier Launched A new flier promoting the project has been produced (see above) and copies will be being distributed across the country in order to encourage sea anglers to get involved. An electronic version of the flier is available to download from the project's website HERE where you'll find access to all other details about the project including minutes from the steering group meetings and other information that you might find useful. Understanding How The Surveys Work Some of the methods for carrying out recreational surveys can be complex and difficult to understand. That's why the Sea Angling 2012 team have produced a guide to how surveys work. This can be found on the website HERE. No mention of the Data collection from the charter fleet nor any explination with regard what the 'Data Collection Frame Work' is for.

Hi Sportsman can I point out that there is nothing stupid in trying to point out the failings of any unnecessary regulations and that applies in walks of life. You say how disinterested you are with regard sea angling politics but I’m sure that would change were it to affect your fresh water angling, though not having much interest in sea angling is no different to my not having any interest in reading your coarse fishing topics so perhaps your shout that I should know everything before comment is a tad unfair. I did understand the basic principle of the topic and equally aware of the probable downside. Every politician will have at one time or another decided he or she had something to offer by serving the community having made that decision they will have alienated them self from all apart from those who are in line with their views, be that a party line or in my case anti unnecessary reregulation. As for your self-elected shout well sir some are elected by the voting process others selected by an interviewing process. In my case the MMO selected me from a number of applicants and that would have been based on my experience.

Weren’t disagreeing with you Nick your spot on as always. Your whole post gets the thumbs up from me if only folk like our good friend Sportsman could see it that way. When I see unnecessary regulation it’s like a red flag to a bull to me and we need look no further than the MCZ project to see the failings in all this interference with nature. Over four years and millions of taxpayers’ money wasted.

Steady on Nick 'freedom of choice' (ref C&R) is not ‘kill everything’ that is in fact a regulation that has been introduced in Germany and Switzerland where the green lobby jumped all over C&R as being cruel they fought it and won. I’m with you all the way when it comes to messing with nature or not as should be the case and this introduction non-native fish, plain barmy in my view. You mention cormorants also some of which I believe are non-native but the RSPB will look after them I’m sure. My stance is that I’m not convinced C&R has any huge benefit that couldn’t be better put across by way of a voluntary code of conduct. If the guys go down the road of legislation over an issue that has little science to back it then a challenge from the green lobby could have the same devastating effect on angling here in the UK as in Germany and Switzerland. It all very well saying this is a fresh water issue but that didn’t stop a ban on taking Eel in tidal waters did it?

No I didn'’t miss the quote ‘It can also cause high numbers of deaths in other fish including the common carp, beam and roach.’ Nor did I miss where it has been identified as in ‘a pond in North Stoneham, Hampshire, which is infected with the parasite’ that’s a pond which I know very well btw. I have also taken on board that is comes from the Topmouth gudgeon, which are originally from Asia along with how fast growing it is and the effects it has had in America. So what part of silly were you referring to? Oh Catch and Release the minimum effect policy that single species hunters would have introduced on others irrespective of the danger in calling for it as a regulation more important to them to take away a right of freedom of choice. C&R won’t ever save a species and your evidence provided on another topic is dated and too small for serious consideration, but carry on by all means you may convince others but you will need to put up a better argument to convince either me or likely as not the lads at the EA, DEFRA and Cefas.

Is this not what happened to the Eel and could it be a case of history repeating itself? What’s next the Angling Trust to support a ban on catching them while allowing a commercial take? Oh no I forgot there is a C&R policy already that just needs being made 100% silly me.

Point taken John and please accept my apologies