Matthew Simmons

Rusty, Sounds like a very specific scenario you have and I am not sure how it would work with hemp as a hook bait. Personally with what you've described, I would feed as suggested - bread and (a little) hemp - but then fish bread punch over the top. But as you've asked about the H&T combo. When I've used H&T on the Thames (or Kennet) where I can't see the fish, I have always started with maggot as hook bait but fed a pinch of hemp every cast. Then every 10 casts or so, I switch to hemp or tare on the hook for a couple of casts. As other posters have indicated it takes about an hour for them to switch. And then you'll pick off the better fish. Personally I find I do better using hemp on the hookas opposed to tares, but I buy the giant hemp for hookbaits and feed the normal size. But tares stay on the hook better. Hemp's a b*gger to hook on but you'll find all manner of clever methods by googling it. For normal hemp and tares I would use an 18 and for giant a 16 seems to work better. Hope that helps. M

Yes Anderoo - I'll second that! I thought it was me. Just need to find where the roach have moved to since the floods - they've been doing really well in the middle of Reading apparently 20lb+ bags. Love the Thames but I do need to be in amongst greenery - can't be doing with fishing in front of office blocks! Good luck with the chub - another species I will start to target.

Likewise - fished hard all day yesterday at Wallingford - one nice roach (the main target) and a jack pike marginally larger than the deadbait. Very hard work - despite the river looking perfect. M

Hi A lot depends on the water you're fishing and how big the bream are and how big the shoals are. You need to both attract them and then keep them interested. What I would use on a lake (not a commercial - someone else can speak about those) or on my local Thames would be based on brown crumb, something involving fishmeal and something sweet. If you want to bulk up and bind it for long range, or deep venues add Vitalin - its a dog food and dirt cheap. Personally I add dead maggots (I always freeze my leftovers to provide a ready supply) and some 2mm Halibut pellets as well to keep them grubbing around. I mix it all up with lake water that has got a big splodge of molasses for sweetness. Catch loads of bream with that mix. If you are using a cage feeder, lose the Vitalin. Or ask the carp boys - they get loads of bream Matt

September is a good time to kick off actually - but it must be frustrating. Ah the lost art of freelining - now you're talking. Had some nice chub off the Loddon a couple of weeks ago on bread flake in the evenings - nothing huge (by Loddon standards) and some pounders which is great for the future. Good luck if you do get out sunday! M

Yes Mike - I agree on the hook - should land anything if properly hooked - hence the original question to the forum! Not flyfishing for barbel. Anyway I'm sure they were barbel - not other realistic alternative. Especially as I did managed to snaag one of them - same bite, same spot in the swim, and same reaction to being hooked. I was surprised by the otter. To be honest I thought he was pretty cool - first one I've seen on the Kennet and the first I've seen for ages. Only 4 times fishing since Feb - really sorry to hear that. M

Hi Chris - well done on the 5, I watched the 11.11 coming out - beautiful fish that was deceptively heavy - we put it at high 9s to ten and a half before it was weighed! And a chap just downstream of him lost one about the same time - 10ish - time not size. The otter was a good 3ft long with a big head - I assumed it was the dog. I've never seen one on our water - saw one on the Loddon three years back. See you soon. M

Hi, An update from last night's exploits in the same spot. With bag of cubed of meat as a change bait. Ran maggots through, ran casters through, ran meat through, ran big bunches of maggots, same held back, laid on hard, stretpegged but just dace and really tentative. Might have something to do with the huge dog otter that eventually surfaced 6 feet from me, after I'd been there a couple of hours! Actually, it was an unexpected pleasure to see him - I have no problems with otters that occur naturally (as opposed to restocked) - its the crays and cormorants that really hack me off. And likewise an unexpected pleasure to bump into Chris Plumb on the bank. I feel that I've had some great advice on this thread and feel motivated to persist. Hopefully next time I go, the otter will be hassling someone else! Thanks all. Matt

Mike it was a#14 Kamasan Animal. And there really aren't that many chub in this particular stretch - loads of trout but they go spare immediately they are hooked! Definitely not trout. M

Looks exactly like my Okuma - but with the useful addition of a line guard. My Okuma Sheffield is brilliant but cost £140 - this one comes from Dragon Carp and looks a steal at £40 http://www.dragoncarpdirect.com/products/A...repin-Reel.html Thinking it will be my next pin - I need 2 line strengths M

That's what I was alluding to Clive - on the rivers down here its upstream only - so effectively its a non issue! Not that I am particularly enamoured by the Test and its ilk. Too manicured, too many big stupid trout for the big, stupid corporates .... (no further comment ). Give me a wild stream any day to chuck a fly over! Much more of a challenge. M

Yes - strange one that Steve! Both are just as bad. M

Hi Phone - thanks for joining the thread, which has proved to be really interesting. I'll remember your advice when I finally get to Henry's Fork (currently top of my bucket list) - but its a great idea. But on the trout rivers I get occasional access to - in the south of the country - questions would be asked in parliament if you got caught fishing downstream - let alone chumming as well! M

Clive, I am very familiar with the technique and I can think of a couple of stretches that I have access to that would allow me to do this - with a 10' fly rod I use for Salmon in Ireland - should be up to the task with a heavy fluoro tippet - there's not that much weed this year. But I'd probably need to try it on a weekday - the kennet is quite busy at the weekends - not sure I'd be the most popular guy on the river! I'll stick to trotting this year. M

I yes -I forgot - I use a waistcoat too - for weights, rigs and bits! Invaluable. M

Hi Tigger -thanks for the thoughts - as you said - its difficult to know whats going on down there and its a matter of trial and error to get it right on the day. And, we'll think we've got it sorted and the next day will be totally different! My first thoughts tend to be always about presentation - float size, shotting patterns etc. And until the winter, I tend to travel very light on the river to encourage mobility - small bag, net, rod, mat, bucket - not even a chair! But thinking about change baits, it would be easy to add a bag of corn/maize and some cubed meat to my bag. M

Hi Tigger, I meant to reply to last night but for some reason had a lousy internet connection. Its only really barbel and dace on this stretch - the odd very large chub ( I have only had 3 in 4 years fishing - 7lb PB) and a reasonable head of some cracking perch. There are lots of trout, had em up to 5lbs but when they're hooked its usually right at the back of the throat and they don't shake their head - they shake everything! The only large fish that these bites could have been I think were barbel - it was too bright and the water too fast for the perch. I agree with you that foul-hooked fish will scoot off and you normally can't do much with them - but I have never foul-hooked a barbel - so i can't really speak from a great deal of experience on that. They did feel to me that they were hooked in the head area - and I think you are right that a bigger bait would have given them a bigger/better target to engulf - I am still thinking that the fish were lightly hooked around the mouth area but not in it - checked the hook and it was sharp. Let you know how I get on this week - but you know what its like - you never ever get the same day twice when you're fishing! M

Hi Nicepix - thanks for the replies - I think maize is a very underused bait - its really good for tench when its been cooked and then left for a couple of days and starts to ferment. But I never thought of it for barbel. It will also pick out the better dace I would think - and its dirt cheap! I was also intrigued by your previous post which I meant to reply to last night but for some reason had a lousy internet connection. In this particular swim it would be impossible, but I read an article some time ago about fishing for barbel Czech nymph style - I think it was Bob James who wrote it. And I filed the idea away for another day, but you've got me thinking now about getting my long sea trout rod out and the chesties and giving it a go. It would need some baiting up the right swim first, and maybe I should leave the kit in the back of the car for a day such as saturday when they seemed to be really 'having it' - but I can think of a couple of swims on the Kennet where this would work with room for a cast and a good runthrough. The thought of a barbel on a 10' seven weight ..... Maybe I should concentrate on one thing at a time and get the trotting thing cracked :-) M

Actually Redfin - sad but I am quite happy catching dace to 10oz! So I'll go with the larger bait as a change every 10 or casts and meat is good value - and my local store has the garlic spam by the bucket load! Had very mixed results with Sonu baits though on the lakes - not totally convinced yet. M

Ken yes I can see how the loafer would work on that type of swim and I have found the chub on the Loddon very readily come up in the water even in the winter. Love the sight of barbel pushing the other fish out of the way - if you can find a spot like yours at a bridge its really instructive to see a feeding hierarchy in action - I am guessing that these fish are not within reach of a cast? M

Hi Chris, Thanks for the link - I did in fact find it I think a couple of years ago when I got the 'pin. It was really useful and given that I know we share some venues it gave me the confidence to keep persevering - it was only last autumn that I really started to click on the Kennet. I did replace the hook because I thought that it might have got damaged - as you say it often happens over gravel. Anyway I will give it another go on Wednesday evening with my head buzzing with ideas. M

Indeed it is a nice problem to have Redfin! I am trying to imagine how much caster I would need to feed off the Dace - I think you mistake me for someone really wealthy ;-) M

Lutra and Avjay -good advice - thanks. I think that was it - my recollection is that the barbel were hitting the bait 'earlier' in the swim than the dace. I think the hemp sinks faster than the maggots and it would definitely make sense, given the number of dace (and the odd brownie) I had in the swim that most maggots would be mopped up way before they got to the barbel. Thing is that I was actually targeting the dace - and I got that dead right for a change! The barbel were a real bonus and rather unexpected because those that have targeted them this summer haven't done that well. Need to rethink the feeding and also try running a bit of meat through every so often. Thanks guys Matt

Thanks Ken - did try caster every 10 run throughs - but the dace only really wanted maggot this weekend. It was a caster only the 2 weekends before - go figure! Good idea about small cubes of meat - I've got a stack of it at home ready for the autumn. Maybe it would also give the barbel a better target - smellier. I was running about 6 ins over depth as I find that it helps with the dace when I hold back - in fact I think I could get further over depth and hold even harder. Would you go for a loafer because it carries more shot and therefore hold back longer and deeper for the barbel? Although I find that if I go with anything with a bigger tip than the goose quill Avon on this stretch I find I can't see the dace bites - on other less pacey swims I'd use a 8x4 lignum stick shot right down. Cheers Matt

Thanks Addicted, Its is indeed a great way to catch em - and he was a beautiful little fish. That's the sort of lines along which what I was thinking. I think with their long snout, picking up a small moving bait would be quite difficult - and if you look carefully at the pic you can see the the red maggots right in the corner of the mouth. Perhaps I was hooking them just outside the mouth area. I do feel the tackle was balanced - I fooled around with floats and shotting for 30 mins to get the presentation where I wanted it and after all 50 or so Dace can't be wrong! But should I slow it all right down to give the barbel more time? Regards Matt