Peter Gowman

As posted by Yoxer quote: Im sayin attacking Iraq for the purpose of stopping terrorism is a complete waste of time if you consider Iraq a source of weapon grade " stuff" , the stuff is all over the place. Terrorist dont need WMD , weapon grade " stuff " or even planes. A trip to your local hospital can supply you with enough plutonium to bring absolute chasos/destruction to any large city, if you know what your looking for. I don't think that you have got your facts right there. But I still don't understand what effort it is that was lost on me. You haven't answered my question. I absolutely disagree with you about attacking Iraq, for the reasons previously stated. Your argument regarding WMD being currently readily available to the terrorists in question is not credible in any way. Your arguments against attacking Iraq are, frankly, non starters.

As posted by Yoxer quote: yes , those aeroplanes , but I see the effort was apperently lost on you. Please clarify, cos I'm fik and I don't understand exactly what it is your saying here. Are you saying that the effort Al Quaeda put into that terrorist act is lost on me, or what?

As posted by Yoxer quote: Your confusing my fear with amusement Peter . If this matter amuses you, then you are an extremely sad person.

Yoxer Is that the aeroplanes that they didn't need on 9/11?

quote: A school in Batley, West Yorkshire has banned under sevens from reading the story of The Three Little Pigs in case it offends Muslims. Good grief, what is this country coming to.

Your nearest friendly tackle dealer. If they are any good, they will give you enough help and advice to keep you busy for a while. I'm sure that you will get lot's more and better advice from other good people that use this forum though.

Your nearest friendly tackle dealer. If they are any good, they will give you enough help and advice to keep you busy for a while. I'm sure that you will get lot's more and better advice from other good people that use this forum though.

As posted by Yoxer quote: please allow me to introduce myself . I am Satan , or if you prefer the Devil, Lucifer, The Prince of Darkness, The Evil One , Old Nick ....I answer to all these although Im not too happy aboot the last un . Nick I maybe but old ? I've come across delusions of grandeur before... but this is ridiculous. Yoxer, what is it you'd like us all to do then mate? I know the name of a good exorcist...

Yoxer With the extreme likelyhood that this post will be removed..... you freely insult the greatest free power in this world. A country that time and again has offered the lives of their young warriors to help us remain free. You see Yoxer they have a spine and some bo**ock* to go with their brain.... [ 04. March 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Peter Gowman ]

Yoxer the 'stuff lying around in Iraq' has been designed as weapons. It is 'weapon grade', it is designed to be easily delivered. It is the anthrax, smallpox etc, the method of easily delivering virtually invisible agents that would cause mass hysteria and truly terrorise people. We cannot just sit back and allow the fear of it happening to prevent us from taking positive action to prevent it. You appear to be so afraid of something it prevents you from seeing all options. You cannot appease terrorists, the only way to guarantee a world free from terrorism is to eradicate them.

Yoxer Hypothetically - Iraq may not now have huge stocks of biological/chemical weapons. However, nobody denies that they did have. In all probability some stocks still exist. Saddam may not be a devout Muslim, but some of his people quite probably are and also quite probably carry anti American feelings. Sooner or later Saddam's regime will end. What happens in the vacuum? I believe that this is where the fear of western governments lye. They require access to that land to ensure that these substances are not passed to fundamentalist elements. The only way to guarantee access to that land? So in a way I agree with you, the whole truth is not being spelt out by the powers that be. But I feel that it is ultimately the threat of the terrorism that makes this war necessary. It is a strong case, but not one that would gain a UN mandate.

Yoxer - try . If you believe everything you read on the web (and you do appear to), you should get the point.

quote: He specified that they could be used "where there are enemy troops in a cave [and] you know there are women and children in there with them". Having a little experience in these matters, a perfectly valid solution to a probable scenario. Better than lobbing a few explosive charges in. The real problem with our society is that there is far too much influence exerted on political powers by profit making conglomerates where the pound/dollar rules. It is the managers/owners/investors in these institutions that are the shameless in our society, not the ordinary average folk. Regardless of this, I still don't see why we should comply with the wishes of external foreign powers. If these persons (I would have preferred an impolite adjective) confined their protests to civilised debate, I may have more time for them. But I'm damned if I should modify my thoughts and actions just because some bigot tells me that I'm an infidel and then carries out an act of terrorism that breaks a few more laws than using a bit of CS gas. I live in a free (relative) country, where, within the law I'm allowed my own thoughts and actions. If these people had their way, I wouldn't be, and fear of them won't stop me from defending my freedom. I find it intolerable that some people that enjoy these freedoms prefer the ways and views of those that would remove it from us. "Your either with us or against us", is a pretty far reaching and simplistic statement, but it's about right.

Yes Newt, it's similar to that four letter anlgo-saxon word for sexual intercourse. Apparently it's the most versatile word in the english language.....

quote: I have no doubt he is Well if you agree, there must be some credibility in his case. I don't think that any British Prime Minister would willingly send young service people into the theatre of war without good reason. Furthermore, I can assure you that senior military commanders do not undertake tasks that they feel are ill conceived. Yoxer, doesn't your conscience bother you residing in such a despotic, dishonest society (from your perspective, not mine).

Yoxer, I for one have a lot more respect for what Tony Blair has to say than what you have to say. The chances are that he is in possession of rather more pertinent and current information than you are.

Well said Nightwing. As with most of that ilk, the only interest yoxer is operating in, is his/her own.

You miss the point Chester's. The atmosphere of abject terror that existed. The fear and intrusion into everyone's everyday life. regardless of the perpetrator the anthrax issue was magnified in the minds of Americans because of the 9/11 terrorist strike. This still dwells on the minds of many Americans (you only have to look at recent newsreels and the panic buying), this is the pressure that President Bush is under. It stems largely from the fear of the ordinary American citizen and their desire to lead their lives in peace. I'm sure that 9/11 is the catalyst for the current situation, but it has only focused the attention, not changed the facts.

quote: What a pity there is no such concern for the equally threatened Anglo-Saxon human. Partly my fault, I'm good old anglo saxon stock and there's never been a necessity for a pretty face to have blonde hair on top and blue eyes in the front on my part, and I can assure you my approach has been absolutely worthwhile.

quote: all the so called proof of this statement coming from both blair and bush has been PROVEN to be a crock of ####. Proven? If you had experienced the atmosphere in the US, (or had any contact with somebody who had) during the post 9/11 anthrax problem, you might have a small insight into where bush and blair are coming from. Yoxer, you state that you don't give a fig for Iraq or the Iraqi people. So where does your problem lye then? Is it just a straightforward hatred for the western democracies? Or just the US? Just a thought, but what is your background? What is it that leaves you with such a distaste for our free countries and those that have sacrificed their lives to keep them free and the actions that they are willing to take to keep them that way?

That's being cruel to dumb animals!!!

Well said Tinca. I wasn't going to bother pointing out to Yoxer that the intelligence gathering systems of the US/UK/Nato etc were in some way inferior to his (assumed, could be her of course). I enjoy the floundering of those that accuse and knock but have no tangible solutions or evidence to support their point of view.

The difference between democracy (which you appear not to support) and dictatorship.

quote: At least 100,000 people have attended an angry rally against any war with Iraq at a stadium in the Egyptian capital, Cairo. "With our blood, with our souls, we will sacrifice ourselves for you, Iraq," the crowd chanted as they brandished thousands of placards backing Baghdad and denouncing US President George W Bush and Israel. And your point is? We should be afraid of this? We should conduct our policy on the basis of this protest? I'm a bit lost....

Try practising your freedom of speech in Iraq and you'll find out precisely the difference between democracy and dictatorship.