Nicepix

Different species have different abilities to survice out of water. Carp can be kept out of water, as long as they are kept wet, for several days. The Dutch used to hang them in sacks from hooks in their cellars, feeding them milk pobs to cleanse their guts before they were eaten. I return trout straight away by unhooking them in the water wherever possible. I also hold them facing the current before release, same with barbel, another hard fighting species that become exhausted on being caught. Carp and other species are kept in the landing net and unhooked straight away wherever possible. Lay the fish down, unhook it, place the wet netting over the fish, get the camera from my pocket and it is a quick process to record the image and return the fish still in the net. If I need to weigh a fish I will either do it in the net or put it in a carp sack, back in the water for a few minutes, then weigh it and return it. On the subject of killing salmon and trout in excess of your catch limit. Legally, you should kill any fish that you believe to be in distress and beyond help. That does not mean that you are able to take it home. Kill it, leave it and if anyone challenges you use the Animal Welfare Act to justify your actions.

In the UK the Animal Welfare Act 2006 deals with this issue. If you believe that an animal is suffering then it is your duty, no one else's, to minimise that suffering. That could mean treating it yourself in an emergency, calling a vet if applicable, or in the extreme putting it out of its misery. Killing an animal in that case would be a defence against allegations of cruelty. It is a grey area though and there are all sorts of scenarios that might lead to challenges, but if you are sure of your position then legally there is no reason not to kill an injured fish and quote the Act as your reason; i.e. minimising distress or suffering with no logical options. Those who fish for the pot should take some means of killing their catch. Letting it suffocate isn't acceptable, legally or morally. A priest is the traditional and acceptable option. But, if you find yourself in a position with an injured fish and no priest, then as Barry has suggested, a knife through the brain is a good option. That is the one I use. A second option is to lance the gills. This might be easier with bigger fish and is something American kayak anglers do with fiesty fish such as halibut before bringing them aboard.

If it did Darren then well done. The last reply was eight years ago!

I use frozen groundbait an maize / sweetcorn as I keep baits frozen ready for use and sometimes they haven't thawed out by the time I arrive at the location. Sometimes it helps to keep the loose bait together when it is in a frozen block. Never noticed it sinking, but as has been said, frozen hemp does float, so keep the hemp content to a minimum if you are going on a river. You haven't said why you are using frozen groundbait. If it is just to keep it solid then try mixing fine clay in with the contents. That makes it sticky until it dissolves in the water, and has a neutral effect on the fish, other than in clear water / sunny days when it sometimes has a positive effect.

Phone, We'll agree to differ. I get the science and if all things were equal then carp and any other species would choose the best food possible and all species other than man appears to be able to know what is required. What you are not factoring in is the psychology. Any fish that lives on natural food works hard for its living. Put an inferior, but more readily accessible food source in front of it and you can throw all the chemistry out of the window. If you made a living panning for gold and someone came to you and told you that a truck load of nickle coins had gone into the river a short distance away what would you do? Continue panning for a small amount of precious metal or hike up there and fill your saddle bags with money? That's why 16% protein chicken pellets get hoovered up by wild carp.

Strangely enough, little wife and I have used SSS for years in England and Cyprus and never been bitten by mozzies or midges while using it. We have given loads of bottles away to friends who have all benefitted from it. Then, a couple of months ago we went to Marais-Poitevin in France, the French fenlands, and were bitten to death despite lathering on SSS. I now have the Avon SSS Expedition Sunscreen / Repellant and that works fine.

Phooey! If that was the case, then there would be no market for fruit flavoured boilies or maize or nuts................. Most fish are predominanately predatory;- insects mainly, but at this time of year many insect eaters will harvest the fry as they emerge from weedbeds. That doesn't stop carp taking a boilie if it is tasty and available.

That sums it up for me too. The lake I've been fishing is over 3 mile long and a quarter of a mile wide in places. At any one time there might be a maximum of twenty anglers on it, thankfully none within 400 yds of where the shoal of carp are that I'm targetting. The carp get by without me. But every now and then they get a little treat. The choice of grubing about in weeds, doing work for little return, or hoovering up groundbait that might not be as wholesome as a caddis grub or roach fry, but it is more easily harvested. That's how nature works; balancing dietary input against expenditure of effort.

I don't go fishing to offer the fish a balanced, healthy diet. I have no responsibility morally or otherwise to do so. I put ground bait in to attract fish without over feeding them. The idea is for them to take a hook bait, not look and feel better after a visit to my swim. Taste, that's what matters, not protein.

Don't get blinded with protein content David. It does matter, but it is not the be all and end all. Having the groundbait stay on the bottom rather than floating away downwind matters more in my opinion. If the pellets are attracting fish, and you have seen like me, that they do, then why does the protein content matter? Getting fish in your swim and feeding is critical to success. You can add crushed or micro halibut pellets or crushed boilies to try and make the fish selective once they are there. Then you hit them with the high protein option if that's what you want to do. Personally I find that in many cases maize or sweetcorn is worth trying over chicken pellets unless you are trying to exclude nuisance smaller fish. Then the Sensas Poisson boilies I mentioned are a good bet. I think for casual anglers, as opposed to those doing long sessions in the same place, attraction is more important than protein especially in France where many fish are to all intents wild and feed on naturals day in and day out. Fish that are used to browsing the weedy shallows will see your groundbait as a high energy / low effort alternative.

Brilliant! Now THAT's how carp fishing should be done. None of ths sleeping in a bungalow waiting to be woken by the scream of an alarm on one of your three identical rods after the fish has hooked itself.................... If you do go the boilie route though, have a look at the Sensas shelf life 'Poisson' flavoured boiles from Decathalon and other outlets. They seem to be accepted readily by carp feeding on the layer's pellets. They might have common ingredients.

That would work. just make sure there is enough line between the hook and the weight so that the carp isn't spooked by the verticle line up to the float. Buying pet products can be a cheap and useful addition to your bait armoury, but be warnd, a lot of pet food floats. Try the stuff Phone recommends or get a small sample bag of chicken layers pellets and try them. If the sink then they are a cheap groundbait mix that attracts carp. Whether to use them dry or wet depends on all sorts of things. I prefer to use layers pellets dry because that way they are working in the water, i.e. breaking down and releasing scent slowly. The problem is you have to introduce them by bait dropper, PVA bag or catapult whereas a wet mix, left to soak overnight won't be as active when you introduce it, but can be moulded into balls and thrown further.

Phone, There is nothing unsporting about mullet fishing. If I had to choose only one species to fish for then it would be the mullet. They are infuriating, addictive and fight harder pound for pound than any other fish I have hooked. They also have relatvely small and soft mouths so you really do need to think about balanced tackle. Catching them on float fished bread flake is easy once you suss the method. They mooch around harbours, creeks and go well into fresh water. My biggest one, just over 6lb was caught in fresh water a mile from the sea. Here in France they come up a canal and become landlocked for four hours when the sea gates close. Getting them on an artificial 'fly' can be a challenge, unless you chum and fish a bread imitation 'fly'. I have been there when it has been done, but not tried the bread fly myself. I tried for a couple of seasons fishing small worm and other types of bug imitations without success. To cast to a 3lb fish 6" from the bank and in 6" depth of water and see the fly inches from its mouth being ignored is a quite unique feeling of frustration. I finally got one an a fry imitation around this time of year when they were feeding on roach fry. In Denmark some anglers fish weed imitations in the sea for mullet. That is the path to insanity. I've tried it, seen fish caught this way, but haven't enough years left in my life to continue with this method.

That highlighted sentence alone places you as a troll or someone with little experience of mullet. And as for the last sentence; Perhaps you have different barbel down there - a lot smaller perhaps?

Aldi and Lidl also sell small packets of snack sized Chorizo and Pepperami sausages for around £1. They are a perfect size for hair rigging for carp and barbel.

You are right. In the UK I reckon mullet are pound for pound harder fighting fish than barbel. My experience of fly fishing for barbel was however carried out in snag pits for the simple reason that the density of barbel in my local rivers was such that I never ever saw shoals of them feeding over gravel glides as I had years previously when fishing the Wharfe. Local barbel were mainly solitary or in very small groups. To find barbel to cast to in the Dearne or Don meant finding weed and that was the snag - literally. But when fishing the gravel glides of the Wharfe for trout and grayling I never had a barbel take my fly. The only barbel I ever hooked by accident was on the Don an a Klink'. The 3lb leader didn't stand a chance. If you could find an open area where barbel shoal and can be approached from downstream then you are in with a chance. But who wants to go Czech nymphing with an 8 weight? Personally I like to cast. Can't do with that short line stuff.

Kirstute; Thanks. I've already got some of those twist on strike indicators. I use them when fishing tiny stream for trout using a 7 foot whip and small artificial nymphs. They might not be visible enough for what I'm intending here though. It will be either a sacrificial length of peacock quill held on with two rubbers or half a wine cork with the line between a split in the cork. Either will come off in weed. I've just ordered some 'cheesecutter' 30lb braid. I think that straight through with a foot or so of anti-tangle tube fixed to the hook to protect the fish, a small piece of putty 18" from the hook to keep the hooklength down, and the sacrificial float a foot overdepth from that should do it. Rob; I agree. There is a small farm pond at the back of the house that holds carp to around 10lb although most are much smaller than that. I call it my laboratory. When float ledgering conventionally there are a lot of dropped bites whereas when just ledgering with a wind blown bow of line on the surface or from the rod top the bites are far more positive.

Funningly enough I got thinking about this very subject yesterday. My situation is different in that the area of the lake I fish is very, very weedy, shallow and has a mud bottom. Conventional ledgering with heavy leads results in losing fish in the weed when the tackle becomes clogged up. I lost a really good fish first thing yeterday when the carp buried itself into weed. The lead did not slip off the clip even though it ws not secured and I ended up weighing in 50lb of weed rather than 30lb of carp. The other thing I noticed over the last two sessions is how many times the fish will pull line off when there is no resistance then drop the bait. During the last two sessions, when the wind has dropped in the evening I have switched off the bite alarms, taken the bobbins off and allowed enough free line between the reel and lead to allow any fish to get to the end of the bolt rig stop without resistance. Time and time again line would go out then stop suddenly. Eventually one took the whole thing and shot off as expected, but I can't help wondering if less resistance and watching for bites rather than relying on an alarm is the way to go. I'm sure that bobbins offer more resistance then people imagine as often the rod top will often twitch well before the bobbin moves. I have decided to experiment with float fishing. This will hopefully solve both problems in that there will be no lead to get caught up in weeds and the float will be only held on by rubbers. And, of course I get a visual indication on what is going off with minimal resistance felt by the fish. Next week, when I go back I'll have a hair rigged bait, one AAA shot about 18" from the hook to keep the leader flat and the float about 12" overdepth fixed top and bottom so it lays flat and drifts with the wind.

The deviation to fly fishing came about because I suggested using a fly fishing nymph instead of bait when trottinginresponse to the question about barbel baits to avoid small dace. The OP then asked about Czech nymphing. Simple if you take the trouble to read the thread. I have caught barbel on the fly, both trotted under a float and by deliberately fly-fishing for them. I have never caught a barbel on the fly whilst trout fishing, although I once hooked and lost one. How or why more fly-fihermen don't hook barbel could be down to where and how they fish. I can't answer that. Trundling a heavy nymph in the narrow gap between streamer weed was the best method of hooking barbel, if not landing them. Trying the same method in more open water usually resulted in chub, grayling or trout.

Give it go and report back. The reason I stopped fly-fishing for barbel in the conventional manner;- upstream nymph fished between the streamer weed resulted in too many hooked and lost fish. I felt undergunned. Maybe Czech nymphing in relatively weed free areas might be the way forward.

I rent a cottage on a working farm. They have sheep pellets, cattle pellets, soya flour, maize, milled maize and they have just filled the hoppers with wheat. The reason I use chicken pellets is because they are small enough to make the fish have to work for their food. It's the nibbles before dinner.

One could never be accused of chumming for trite if one always fished upstream could one?

In some places you are not allowed to wade let alone shuffle. This ban is far more likely on trout rivers, rarely on coarse waters. Coarse fishermen have shuffled in one form or another for years. Even to the extent of raking gravel shallows in preparation to barbel fishing or raking weeds and / or the muddy bottom when tench fishing. I used to troll a lure from my kayak with a length of chain trailing the sea bed hung from the downrigger. The chain kicked up silt that attracted flat fish. In the same vein I tied a fly specifically to kick up silt when being retrieved along the bottom. One place I used to fish on a river always fished best after the cattle had been in for a drink and stirred up the bottom. Shuffling to dislodge insects is nothing new and only banned in a relatively few places in the UK.

No disrespect mate, but salmon and barbel are different prospects. A barbel will know the river like the back of its hand and bury itself in any weed or snags. Salmon are strangers to the river. The biggest problem is that fly line is a lot thicker than mono or braid and easily gets stuck in streamer weed or round stones. By all means try it, but prepare yourself for wading to the fish to free it rather than bring the fish to you to land it. I found the better prospect was to trot a nymph down under a float. The Avon rod and braid line is far better able to handle this type of situation. I suppose you could forget the fly line and use braid or mono as there is no necessity for a fly line when Czech nymphing. That might work. In fact, now I have thought of it, I might give it a go myself.

I have just checked the bag I have and it is 'La Basse-Cour' - a yellow bag with 10kg of pellets in, so better value than I though. They will be a lot better than rabbit pellets as the latter contain almost 100% vegetation. You might also like to have a look at Lidl as they have some small packets of four or five Chorizo type snacks at 99 cents. They are perfect for hair rigging and you can supplement them as loose feed with chopped samples from the bigger Chorizo sausages. For glugs and flavourings Super-U have some fruit concentrates in the bakery aisle. The red fruit syrup is made up of strawberries and raspberies and is ideal for glugging the fruit type boilies. In the same place you will find Vanilla Sugar at about 99c for five satchets, it is a bit cheaper at Lidle. I use that in my maize after it has been simmered and going through the fermentation process. Vanilla is an important flavouring in the French roach groundbaits and carp seem to like it too. Incidentally, when I went into the local tackle shop to buy some bait for barbel he wouldn't sell me any. He said the best bait for barbel in blue cheese paste that has gone off a bit. It reminded me of Dame Juliana Berners recommendation of cheese for barbel all those years ago. p.s. Try some sheep or horse pellets. Not particularly attractive as a bait on their own, but the dissolve far more slowly than chicken pellets.