trent.barbeler

Hi All, Yep. Thats Richard all right. To give you Americans a clue, Richard used to rely a lot on fishing a single hook bait (balanced pop up) over a bed of particles. Usually hemp seed. Having said that, he used to use corn a lot as well. If corn is cheap over in America, that would be a good bet. I bet he is like a dog with two tails now! And dont be surprised to see more of Richard chasing unknown big fish because if he thinks such fish are there, he just ain't going home to the wife. Regards, Lee.

Hi Geoff, and all, Quote from Geoff; "There is an argument that it is better to change things from the inside. In this thread you've mentioned that arguement in the context of the CA/NAA agreement". Answer; Yes Geoff, by being inside, or in this case, a member of something that took part in the drafting of this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA, namely the SAA, I might have had a chance to influence the decision to go ahead with this agreement. But as I have only just rejoined the SAA, I wasn't even aware of it all happening until after the event. Some have already asked for a copy of this agreement to be posted on this site. Bruno came in and gave two statements. Presumably on behalf of the NAA. There "may" be a major difference between the press release contained in the "press release" section in this site and the "whole" document of the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA. And if so, I would like to see the FULL document posted within this media so that everyone concerned can read it in its entirety given the obvious concerns and deapth of feeling over this. Surely, if this "Memorandum of Understanding" is harmless enough, its authors would have no problem revealing it. Quote from Geoff; "As, presumably, anyone who uses this argument should - to be consistent - also apply it elsewhere to any similar situation, I just wondered whether you personally would do so. (For example, as in the case of further EU integration)" Answer; I feel that if arguments retain the same consistency on every occasion within all issues being argued over, it wouldn't be long before there were no arguments to be made. I'm not sure whether I'd lke that. Anyway Geoff, from your question can I take it that you feel that if there is something we either dont like, or dont agree with, that is being done by organisations within angling, we should rush out and join them so we can change what it is that they are doing from the inside which we dont like. (phew, that was a gobfull) Well Geoff, I am not naive enough to think that I can change this understanding between the NAA and the CA by merely attending SAA meetings. Especially when on this issue, existing members of SAA knew nothing or very little of it at the time. This is obvious given that some have stated they have not read the full document to date AND have asked for it to be posted on this site. I actually DO want to be involved in the SAA because it WILL have some bearing on certain area's the RSSG will be working in. I also WANT to support some valuable work that the SAA have done and are doing. I also WANT to try and change certain SAA aspects that I DONT like. I have no chance of doing any of the above by being outside of the SAA. But inside, I can definitely try. Quote from Geoff; "The reason I ask is because I would say, with regards to the EU, that we should change things from the inside. Therefore, to be consistent, I should agree that - as regards the CA/NAA agreement, which I'm more or less against - it would be better, as you say, to change things from the inside". Answer; I cant comment on the domestic political issue of the EU because the more I read on this, the more puzzled I become. The whole thing seems like a forest of opinions coming from politicians that I dont trust anyway. As for the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA? Like yourself Geoff I dont agree with it. This is not because I dont agree with hunting because I have already stated that I am neutral on hunting. I am against it because I feel firstly that the majority of anglers are against it, and secondly because I am against anything that would portray angling in a bad light with regards to how angling is percieved by the general public. Yup! My previous post was very shorthand... My reply wasn't though Geoff so should make up for it. Regards, Lee. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Geoff, and all, Quote from Geoff; "There is an argument that it is better to change things from the inside. In this thread you've mentioned that arguement in the context of the CA/NAA agreement". Answer; Yes Geoff, by being inside, or in this case, a member of something that took part in the drafting of this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA, namely the SAA, I might have had a chance to influence the decision to go ahead with this agreement. But as I have only just rejoined the SAA, I wasn't even aware of it all happening until after the event. Some have already asked for a copy of this agreement to be posted on this site. Bruno came in and gave two statements. Presumably on behalf of the NAA. There "may" be a major difference between the press release contained in the "press release" section in this site and the "whole" document of the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA. And if so, I would like to see the FULL document posted within this media so that everyone concerned can read it in its entirety given the obvious concerns and deapth of feeling over this. Surely, if this "Memorandum of Understanding" is harmless enough, its authors would have no problem revealing it. Quote from Geoff; "As, presumably, anyone who uses this argument should - to be consistent - also apply it elsewhere to any similar situation, I just wondered whether you personally would do so. (For example, as in the case of further EU integration)" Answer; I feel that if arguments retain the same consistency on every occasion within all issues being argued over, it wouldn't be long before there were no arguments to be made. I'm not sure whether I'd lke that. Anyway Geoff, from your question can I take it that you feel that if there is something we either dont like, or dont agree with, that is being done by organisations within angling, we should rush out and join them so we can change what it is that they are doing from the inside which we dont like. (phew, that was a gobfull) Well Geoff, I am not naive enough to think that I can change this understanding between the NAA and the CA by merely attending SAA meetings. Especially when on this issue, existing members of SAA knew nothing or very little of it at the time. This is obvious given that some have stated they have not read the full document to date AND have asked for it to be posted on this site. I actually DO want to be involved in the SAA because it WILL have some bearing on certain area's the RSSG will be working in. I also WANT to support some valuable work that the SAA have done and are doing. I also WANT to try and change certain SAA aspects that I DONT like. I have no chance of doing any of the above by being outside of the SAA. But inside, I can definitely try. Quote from Geoff; "The reason I ask is because I would say, with regards to the EU, that we should change things from the inside. Therefore, to be consistent, I should agree that - as regards the CA/NAA agreement, which I'm more or less against - it would be better, as you say, to change things from the inside". Answer; I cant comment on the domestic political issue of the EU because the more I read on this, the more puzzled I become. The whole thing seems like a forest of opinions coming from politicians that I dont trust anyway. As for the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CA? Like yourself Geoff I dont agree with it. This is not because I dont agree with hunting because I have already stated that I am neutral on hunting. I am against it because I feel firstly that the majority of anglers are against it, and secondly because I am against anything that would portray angling in a bad light with regards to how angling is percieved by the general public. Yup! My previous post was very shorthand... My reply wasn't though Geoff so should make up for it. Regards, Lee. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Geoff, How are you? Geoffs Quote; " I take it you would offer the same 'change from the inside' argument to persuade the UK to further european integration then"? Could you please expand your question Geoff as I dont understand what it is you are asking in relation to angling. Or is this your sense of humour Geoff. Take your time in expanding Geoff because I may be some time answering. The wife is dragging me off into the deep dark world of the "garden centre". Regards,

Hi Geoff, How are you? Geoffs Quote; " I take it you would offer the same 'change from the inside' argument to persuade the UK to further european integration then"? Could you please expand your question Geoff as I dont understand what it is you are asking in relation to angling. Or is this your sense of humour Geoff. Take your time in expanding Geoff because I may be some time answering. The wife is dragging me off into the deep dark world of the "garden centre". Regards,

Dear Phonebush, Please send my crongratulations to Richard and his team. And my sympathies to the Americans that fished against them, and lost. Take heart though my American brothers. For you did face one awesome carp catcher. Tell Richard also, that whilst I sit in darkness starring at the stars, waiting for the barbel to come. I will wonder as I gaze high into the heavens if my brother angler far, far away, sits beneath those same stars, thinking the same thoughts that I think as he waits for a great American carp to surge away. Regards, Lee.

Dear Phonebush, Please send my crongratulations to Richard and his team. And my sympathies to the Americans that fished against them, and lost. Take heart though my American brothers. For you did face one awesome carp catcher. Tell Richard also, that whilst I sit in darkness starring at the stars, waiting for the barbel to come. I will wonder as I gaze high into the heavens if my brother angler far, far away, sits beneath those same stars, thinking the same thoughts that I think as he waits for a great American carp to surge away. Regards, Lee.

Dear All, Given the fact that Leon and others state that they have not read the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CAA, clearly indicates that they, as SAA members were not consulted on this document or the agreement. Or so it appears. Did the "Memorandum of Understanding" appear on any of the SAA meetings agenda's or within those meetings minutes for example? I do find it strange that people seem to be defending something that they admit to NOT having read themselves. Before I could comment on something as important as this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and CAA, I would have to read its contents for myself. Indeed, I have asked Mike Heylin for a copy only last evening. Leon mentioned Charles Jardine as being the spokesman for CAA. I recall in my last time of membership within the SACG, Charles Jardine appearing on a radio 5 programe where the sharp interviewer managed to brow-beat Charles into admitting that fish felt pain! Or am I mistaken? Leon and myself, indeed Steve Pope, know only to well that those working for angling are to few on the ground. Angling desparately needs more people coming into organisations to help out an already over-stretched tiny minority working against the tide for angling. And this lack of help, ultimately means that certain organisations become undermanned which results in their work being prioritised. People that work for angling mostly do it for free, in their own time which ultimately means much of their personal family and recreational time is lost to working for angling. Trust me here, with myself working late into the early hours night after night, and being up early to run my own business, I know what this effort entails. From my point of view, it seves no purpose continuing to criticise publicly those already working for angling unless one is prepared to get in there to bring about change either to those representing anglers or to help out from within. Is this another excuse from myself on behalf of organisations such as the SAA for example? No it is not. It is merely a statement of fact. Steve Pope recently told me that running an angling organisation is worse than running a business. Well, Steve is spot on and a lot of us do both! Now I speak the truth and will never lead anyone up the garden path. Clearly, angling is NOT happy about this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CAA. But clearly, some anglers ARE happy about joining forces with the CAA. What ever ones personal views are, anglers are free to form their own opinions and act, if they choose to do so, in any way they see fit. Anglers also have the right to voice their opinions if they DONT belong to anything. One does not have to become pidgeon holed within a organisation to still hold an opinion. Freedom of speech does not come with the condition to be a paid up member of anything. It comes with being born into a democracy. Now I dont believe that the SAA or indeed the NAA are perfect. I seriously doubt that anyone within these organisations do either. But unless I try and help out or try to alter what I see as short comings, I cannot be reasonably seen by angling generally to be defending my personal criticism's. That is why I have re-joined the SAA to help out and speak out at anything I either dont agree with or dont like. And trust me people, I can make a difference. But only if I'm in there, doing something. Frankly, I dont like the idea of having to form an "understanding" with anyone who seeks to speak for those who can speak perfectly well for themselves. And in the case of the CAA, the angling branch of CA, I would ask this; Would it have not been better for the CAA to be part of the NAA in the first place? At least that way the CAA would have been under the NAA umbrella and effectively outside of their own present umbrella the CA on angling related matters. I know that this probably would have not sat well with some at the time, but it might have prevented the present situation from occurring. I do know one thing for certain though. As Steve Pope says, angling governing bodies PR within angling itself leaves a lot to be desired. And probably contributes to anglers not wanting to join something. The plain fact is that angling governing bodies have to sell the idea of anglers joining them a lot better than they do at present. And to do that, angling governing bodies need more people coming in with new and bright idea's to put forward to make the workload of those who are already there a lot lighter. The plain fact is, they just cant do everything because there are simply to few of them. They need more help and they need some new idea's being tossed into the pot. The great house of British angling is being built brick by brick. Each person coming in to help out and contribute means its another brick laid towards the roof that will shelter us all. But we must work together. All of us in any way that we can. The RSSG has arrived to work for our river systems and the anglers who fish in them. I passionately believe that the RSSG will do good things and make a significant difference. But this does not mean that the RSSG will become an island with no bridge linking itelf to the outside world of angling. We are all stake holders in fishing. Each and everyone of us. The RSSG is here not only for our own members who fish within river systems, it is here to help out where it can. As an individual and secretary of the RSSG, I am passionate about river fishing and totally committed to the RSSG cause. As an individual and passionate angler, I have re-joined the SAA because I feel it is the right thing to do. I do this not merely to put my money where my mouth is. But to put my mouth where the money goes too. Inside, working to change what I dont like and working to support and help what I do. At the end of the day, thats the bottom line. History throughout the ages defines change and dictates direction. If enough want change and new directions for the greater good, you have got to become involved and speak out. Help out and do your bit for angling. I also passionately believe that actual act of pure angling should ride side by side with issues of angling environmental issues and politics. The actual act of going fishing and everything it entails should be promoted as vigerously as possible within angling governing bodies so as to fully promote ALL aspects of angling. This pure angling side would also go some way in encouraging more people to become involved. We can change what we feel isn't right and we can preserve and support what we feel is. Effectively and properly by being inside. Not out. Regards, Lee Fletcher RSSG secretary.

Dear All, Given the fact that Leon and others state that they have not read the "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CAA, clearly indicates that they, as SAA members were not consulted on this document or the agreement. Or so it appears. Did the "Memorandum of Understanding" appear on any of the SAA meetings agenda's or within those meetings minutes for example? I do find it strange that people seem to be defending something that they admit to NOT having read themselves. Before I could comment on something as important as this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and CAA, I would have to read its contents for myself. Indeed, I have asked Mike Heylin for a copy only last evening. Leon mentioned Charles Jardine as being the spokesman for CAA. I recall in my last time of membership within the SACG, Charles Jardine appearing on a radio 5 programe where the sharp interviewer managed to brow-beat Charles into admitting that fish felt pain! Or am I mistaken? Leon and myself, indeed Steve Pope, know only to well that those working for angling are to few on the ground. Angling desparately needs more people coming into organisations to help out an already over-stretched tiny minority working against the tide for angling. And this lack of help, ultimately means that certain organisations become undermanned which results in their work being prioritised. People that work for angling mostly do it for free, in their own time which ultimately means much of their personal family and recreational time is lost to working for angling. Trust me here, with myself working late into the early hours night after night, and being up early to run my own business, I know what this effort entails. From my point of view, it seves no purpose continuing to criticise publicly those already working for angling unless one is prepared to get in there to bring about change either to those representing anglers or to help out from within. Is this another excuse from myself on behalf of organisations such as the SAA for example? No it is not. It is merely a statement of fact. Steve Pope recently told me that running an angling organisation is worse than running a business. Well, Steve is spot on and a lot of us do both! Now I speak the truth and will never lead anyone up the garden path. Clearly, angling is NOT happy about this "Memorandum of Understanding" between the NAA and the CAA. But clearly, some anglers ARE happy about joining forces with the CAA. What ever ones personal views are, anglers are free to form their own opinions and act, if they choose to do so, in any way they see fit. Anglers also have the right to voice their opinions if they DONT belong to anything. One does not have to become pidgeon holed within a organisation to still hold an opinion. Freedom of speech does not come with the condition to be a paid up member of anything. It comes with being born into a democracy. Now I dont believe that the SAA or indeed the NAA are perfect. I seriously doubt that anyone within these organisations do either. But unless I try and help out or try to alter what I see as short comings, I cannot be reasonably seen by angling generally to be defending my personal criticism's. That is why I have re-joined the SAA to help out and speak out at anything I either dont agree with or dont like. And trust me people, I can make a difference. But only if I'm in there, doing something. Frankly, I dont like the idea of having to form an "understanding" with anyone who seeks to speak for those who can speak perfectly well for themselves. And in the case of the CAA, the angling branch of CA, I would ask this; Would it have not been better for the CAA to be part of the NAA in the first place? At least that way the CAA would have been under the NAA umbrella and effectively outside of their own present umbrella the CA on angling related matters. I know that this probably would have not sat well with some at the time, but it might have prevented the present situation from occurring. I do know one thing for certain though. As Steve Pope says, angling governing bodies PR within angling itself leaves a lot to be desired. And probably contributes to anglers not wanting to join something. The plain fact is that angling governing bodies have to sell the idea of anglers joining them a lot better than they do at present. And to do that, angling governing bodies need more people coming in with new and bright idea's to put forward to make the workload of those who are already there a lot lighter. The plain fact is, they just cant do everything because there are simply to few of them. They need more help and they need some new idea's being tossed into the pot. The great house of British angling is being built brick by brick. Each person coming in to help out and contribute means its another brick laid towards the roof that will shelter us all. But we must work together. All of us in any way that we can. The RSSG has arrived to work for our river systems and the anglers who fish in them. I passionately believe that the RSSG will do good things and make a significant difference. But this does not mean that the RSSG will become an island with no bridge linking itelf to the outside world of angling. We are all stake holders in fishing. Each and everyone of us. The RSSG is here not only for our own members who fish within river systems, it is here to help out where it can. As an individual and secretary of the RSSG, I am passionate about river fishing and totally committed to the RSSG cause. As an individual and passionate angler, I have re-joined the SAA because I feel it is the right thing to do. I do this not merely to put my money where my mouth is. But to put my mouth where the money goes too. Inside, working to change what I dont like and working to support and help what I do. At the end of the day, thats the bottom line. History throughout the ages defines change and dictates direction. If enough want change and new directions for the greater good, you have got to become involved and speak out. Help out and do your bit for angling. I also passionately believe that actual act of pure angling should ride side by side with issues of angling environmental issues and politics. The actual act of going fishing and everything it entails should be promoted as vigerously as possible within angling governing bodies so as to fully promote ALL aspects of angling. This pure angling side would also go some way in encouraging more people to become involved. We can change what we feel isn't right and we can preserve and support what we feel is. Effectively and properly by being inside. Not out. Regards, Lee Fletcher RSSG secretary.

Hi Phonebush, Yes, I know Richard extremely well seeing as he came from Muston a village a couple of miles away from mine and we fished together on many occasions. Richard married an American girl and consiquently left old England to live with his new wife in America. I last spoke to Richard about three Christmas's ago when he came home and we had a drink in our local village pub. Apparently he had endless amounts of carp fishing in America with hardly another angler over there fishing for them. A major change to his local water where there was a carp angler behind every bush! Keep an eye on Richard Phonebush because he is an excellent angler who has the knack of catching big fish. He also has extensive knowledge of modern carp fishing tactics as well as predator fishing methods. Regards, Lee.

Hi Phonebush, Yes, I know Richard extremely well seeing as he came from Muston a village a couple of miles away from mine and we fished together on many occasions. Richard married an American girl and consiquently left old England to live with his new wife in America. I last spoke to Richard about three Christmas's ago when he came home and we had a drink in our local village pub. Apparently he had endless amounts of carp fishing in America with hardly another angler over there fishing for them. A major change to his local water where there was a carp angler behind every bush! Keep an eye on Richard Phonebush because he is an excellent angler who has the knack of catching big fish. He also has extensive knowledge of modern carp fishing tactics as well as predator fishing methods. Regards, Lee.

Dear All, One thing to remember concerning the reintroduction of Otters is the "Tarka Syndrome". No chaps, this is not a medical problem but a very real perception that the general public have concerning one of their favourite animals. EVERYONE, well, almost everyone, love Otters. "Ring of Brightwater" and Tarka the Otter have seen to that along with countless films made and shown on TV over the years depicting Otters as the lovable character along the rivers edge. This public perception that the Otter undoubtedly has, makes the problem of addressing Otter predation on behalf of anglers that much more difficult. It is very much like walking a tight rope over an abyss. One wrong move or word said within negotiations and the whole process of tenuous and careful negotiation is lost. Now there is no question that very expensive fish stocks have been lost to Otter predation. These expensive fish stocks are not in monetary terms alone. It takes an awful long time for a carp to grow to be over twenty pounds in weight which of course, makes them so very expensive to replace. Otter predation is also not merely limited to commercial fisheries. Ordinary angling clubs with already stretched finances are effected to. As are ordinary river angling clubs facing the same financial problems. Apart from stillwater environments placed under threat from Otter predation which can at least be offered protection via expensive netting if funding can be found, what about our rivers that will, undoubtedly come under a similar threat sooner or later. How the hell would one go about protecting river stocks? Protective netting on rivers just isn't an option so what are river clubs going to do in order to protect fish stocks along their stretches? Chris Burt and his team have worked extremely hard in order to address what is, undoubtedly, a very worrying problem. Chris has also knocked on many doors, and is knocking still, in order to get protective Otter netting properly finaced so that stillwaters under threat from Otter predation can receive some financial help in protecting their fisheries. I am certain that in the fullness of time, our rivers fish stocks on some rivers will come under the same threat from Otter predation as certain stillwaters have. And when they do, we had all better to be ready to follow Chris's example on how to deal with the Otter groups and the mighty general public so that we as river anglers, manage to retain the publics general support whilst striving to protect river fish stocks as well. No easy task, but one we will almost certainly have to face sooner or later. Regards, Lee.

Dear All, One thing to remember concerning the reintroduction of Otters is the "Tarka Syndrome". No chaps, this is not a medical problem but a very real perception that the general public have concerning one of their favourite animals. EVERYONE, well, almost everyone, love Otters. "Ring of Brightwater" and Tarka the Otter have seen to that along with countless films made and shown on TV over the years depicting Otters as the lovable character along the rivers edge. This public perception that the Otter undoubtedly has, makes the problem of addressing Otter predation on behalf of anglers that much more difficult. It is very much like walking a tight rope over an abyss. One wrong move or word said within negotiations and the whole process of tenuous and careful negotiation is lost. Now there is no question that very expensive fish stocks have been lost to Otter predation. These expensive fish stocks are not in monetary terms alone. It takes an awful long time for a carp to grow to be over twenty pounds in weight which of course, makes them so very expensive to replace. Otter predation is also not merely limited to commercial fisheries. Ordinary angling clubs with already stretched finances are effected to. As are ordinary river angling clubs facing the same financial problems. Apart from stillwater environments placed under threat from Otter predation which can at least be offered protection via expensive netting if funding can be found, what about our rivers that will, undoubtedly come under a similar threat sooner or later. How the hell would one go about protecting river stocks? Protective netting on rivers just isn't an option so what are river clubs going to do in order to protect fish stocks along their stretches? Chris Burt and his team have worked extremely hard in order to address what is, undoubtedly, a very worrying problem. Chris has also knocked on many doors, and is knocking still, in order to get protective Otter netting properly finaced so that stillwaters under threat from Otter predation can receive some financial help in protecting their fisheries. I am certain that in the fullness of time, our rivers fish stocks on some rivers will come under the same threat from Otter predation as certain stillwaters have. And when they do, we had all better to be ready to follow Chris's example on how to deal with the Otter groups and the mighty general public so that we as river anglers, manage to retain the publics general support whilst striving to protect river fish stocks as well. No easy task, but one we will almost certainly have to face sooner or later. Regards, Lee.

Dear All, As the RSSG secretary, please allow me to clarify; I have most of the relevant documentation/paperwork regarding the SACG/SAA efforts regarding Otter Predation. I can tell you all absolutely and without question, that Chris Burt has done some extremely vital and important work regarding this issue that has resulted in consultation with Otter Bapps and various other Otter Conservation Groups that is truly bearing fruit. Chris and members of the Otter Groups have worked very hard to fully appreciate each others concerns that now see's all sides working closely together. This is the major step forward to seeing the reintroduction of Otters into sustainable environments safe gaurding the Otters future whilst at the same time, trying to maintain what clearly are, valuable fish stocks at the same time. This has been no easy task for both sides but both have clearly demonstarated that through careful and patient negotiation, with a willingness to move forward together, Otters and anglers can once again, live together in harmony. Yes, there is still more work to do. But the RSSG have full confidence that Chris, his team, and the Otter Groups will gain more ground on this vital issue. Regards, Lee Flecher RSSG secretary.

Dear All, As the RSSG secretary, please allow me to clarify; I have most of the relevant documentation/paperwork regarding the SACG/SAA efforts regarding Otter Predation. I can tell you all absolutely and without question, that Chris Burt has done some extremely vital and important work regarding this issue that has resulted in consultation with Otter Bapps and various other Otter Conservation Groups that is truly bearing fruit. Chris and members of the Otter Groups have worked very hard to fully appreciate each others concerns that now see's all sides working closely together. This is the major step forward to seeing the reintroduction of Otters into sustainable environments safe gaurding the Otters future whilst at the same time, trying to maintain what clearly are, valuable fish stocks at the same time. This has been no easy task for both sides but both have clearly demonstarated that through careful and patient negotiation, with a willingness to move forward together, Otters and anglers can once again, live together in harmony. Yes, there is still more work to do. But the RSSG have full confidence that Chris, his team, and the Otter Groups will gain more ground on this vital issue. Regards, Lee Flecher RSSG secretary.

Dear All, Fishing or angling, is as we all know, contains within it a rich tapestry of disciplines. It also contains within it, anglers that hunt and shoot as well. Is it any wonder then that there are many oppinions arise when this subject comes up. I like to think that in all issues, I look to the facts for my opinions and inspiration. Whilst I fully accept that my opinion is all it is, my opinion, here it is for what its worth. There can be no doubting that the situation regarding foxhunting and the present situation it finds itself in, has come about because of two main reasons which are; A low public opinion of foxhunting via press reports of certain hunt activities in the past, and a unhealthy government majority in the House of Commons that appears to be exploiting what it see's as public opinion at every opportune moment for its own ends. I have been a labour voter all of my voting life but I am growing very concerned about the direction this administration is taking. Now we see the issue of foxhunting being used as a political spin tool as the issue dies down only to be seemingly re-lit to appease back bench politicians that would otherwise, be making loud noises about other issues that some want kept quiet. I have no view on foxhunting. I am neither for, or against. But I am concerned how this issue is appearing to be used for political ends. Given the supposed fact that so many of the general public want to see foxhunting banned, why was there such a historically low turn out at the last General Election to support this governments views. One would assume if so many voters wanted a ban on foxhunting, they would have voted for this government in their droves. But they did not. Or at least a massive amount of voters stayed away from the polling booths which does say something at least. Phil has mentioned the effect illegal coursing/hunting of hares has had on the effect of the hare populations in his area. Whilst this is typical in some area's where hares used to be abundant, hares also suffer from a disease that irradicates their numbers in certain area's. Although I dont remember this diseases actual name, some countrymen call it "scab". Add this natural phenomenon to hares being illegally hunted, and it becomes easy to see hares disappear from habitats in which they once were prolific. Another reality to understand about hares and rabbits, is the fact that landowners and farmers are duty bound in law to keep their numbers down. They are classed as a pest by the Ministry of Agriculture (DEFRA) and as such MUST be kept down. The loss to agriculture in this country through hare and rabbit damage is MASSIVE in terms of money and these figures are very alarming. Also, if one attends the organised hare shoots in some areas then one would clearly see just how many hares there are out in farmers fields. Literally hundreds are shot over a two day period in some area's. Not my cup of tea admittedly, but something which is deemed necessary by farmers and is a legal duty they have to perform. David Bellamy has gone on record publicly as stating that without pheasant shooting, we would loose thousands of highly important sites, (woodlands) that harbour some of our countries most threatened species of fauna and flora. Also, take away pheasant shooting and we take away many country estates vital income. And with it would eventually go many of our countries woodland and scrub area's making any drive through beautiful countryside a thing of the past as woodland is cleared or harvested piecemeal as another crop. Country sporting estates also offer tremendous amounts of fishing that is either open to the public, leased to angling clubs or syndicates. River stretches for course anglers, river beats for game anglers, stillwater venues. Whether anglers like it or not, it is a clear fact that we ARE entwined already with shooting and in some cases hunting because we obtain a lot of our fishing rights from landowners who enjoy these pursuits. Take a lot of river fishing for instance. An awful lot of the fishing that we all take for granted is leased through land agents who are, acting on behalf of country estates who are the riperian owners. The same owners that enjoy hunting and shooting on other estates they own. Then take the large gravel companies. Exactly who, sits on their boards of directors? None foxhunters or none shooters? And just how much fishing in this country of ours comes directly from these large companies? I absolutely gaurantee that angling is more entwined with hunting and shooting via indirect fishing leases than most realise. I repeat. I have no views on foxhunting either way. I do not shoot although I used to. But still, I am not opposed to shooting. What I am against though, is the continuous erosion of our liberties as Englishmen and Women. It has almost become fashionable amongst certain individuals of the rich and famous to be along side those who want to ban something. Or to donate money to organisations that want to either ban or change the way the majority lives because the majority way does not sit well with their minority views. To make matters worse, the tabloid press, jump on these minority views elevating there minority profile because it sells copy. And whilst all this is going on, the majority stay silent. Who would have thought it. Englishmen and Women with all the traditional and historical fire in their bellies, bowing to crackpots telling them how they should be living their lives. And all the time, make no mistake, these minority crackpots are laughing at us because we wont unite in the powerful army that angling really is by joining something, anything, that will increase our collective voice. I honestly believe that angling can stand on its own provided all anglers stand up together saying; "We are Englishmen, this is our sport, we are keeping it and we will not yeild on inch of ground to anyone who seeks to deny us our sport". Whether you agree with foxhunting or not, learn the lesson that clearly stares us all in the face. Foxhunting through its powerful and rich participants thought mistakenly, that they could stand alone. Indeed, it is only their "connected" participants that have saved them from this government for so long. For God sake, I implore you all. Dont leave it too long like the foxhunting fraternity did. Unite by joining something, anything that represents anglers NOW. Regards, Lee.

Hi All, Today I made the 80 mile round trip looking at my shortlist of venues for the second and last of the RSSG formation meetings to take place. I am pleased to say that I have made a final decision and booked the venue and all RSSG members will be notified shortly with the relevant details. Happily, the venue is a hotel in rural surroundings and can easily accommodate up to 40 RSSG members that may wish to attend the meeting and stay overnight for the social evening. I like the idea of the social side to this because the last one was very enjoyable even though the next morning brought with it a severe headache for some. Well, namely me. The RSSG is for everyone no matter what you fish for so, come on. Make a rivers day and join the RSSG today. Regards, Lee.

Hi All, Today I made the 80 mile round trip looking at my shortlist of venues for the second and last of the RSSG formation meetings to take place. I am pleased to say that I have made a final decision and booked the venue and all RSSG members will be notified shortly with the relevant details. Happily, the venue is a hotel in rural surroundings and can easily accommodate up to 40 RSSG members that may wish to attend the meeting and stay overnight for the social evening. I like the idea of the social side to this because the last one was very enjoyable even though the next morning brought with it a severe headache for some. Well, namely me. The RSSG is for everyone no matter what you fish for so, come on. Make a rivers day and join the RSSG today. Regards, Lee.

Dear Guys and Galls, Some more developments. Leon Roskilly, a RSSG member, has offered to be the RSSG Catchment Officer for the Medway area. For those out there who do not know who Leon is, he is one of the most active and caring anglers out there working for angling on many fronts and is highly respected in the world of angling. Leon is also an expert angler and one hell of a angling writer. Leon is one busy guy so his offer to help is immensely appreciated. My personal thanks and the thanks of all RSSG members goes out to Leon. As an added bonus for myself, Leon has offered to take me Mullet fishing shortly. Perks of the job I'm glad to say! Elton Murphy on our behalf, has contacted James Holgate concerning the RSSG and James has offered to place something about the RSSG in Course Angling Today. I have contacted James myself thanking him and also offering to do an article on Trent barbel fishing by way of grateful thanks for what he will do on behalf of the RSSG. Indeed, future relations the RSSG has with the angling press in my opinion should take on the form of the RSSG working in partnership with them just as we all do on angling websites. Added to which we all know that the RSSG membership contains some wonderful angling writers who have, for to long remained in the shadows. Perhaps Dick and Graham and others might like to keep their pencils sharpened? Now we all know who Elton Murphy and Andy Frances are. We know them as really caring guys who are always willing to help out angling in any way they can. They have certainly proved that to the RSSG in recent months. It is nothing short of amazing how far we have come with their help and the help of other fishing website owners. Therefore, I am stunningly pleased to announce that Andy and Elton have both agreed to become Honorary Officers in the form of Presidents etc of the RSSG. Amazingly, they are both honoured to be asked! Of course, the reality here is that the RSSG is extremely pleased and honoured to have them. Elton has conditions however, he is adamant that before he takes up any role, he wants to get 200 RSSG individual members on board first. So come on galls and guys, lets give these blokes a hand by coming together each and everyone of us by posting on all the RSSG threads on all sites to spread the word in one massive concerted effort to tell everyone that we are RSSG members and what that means to us all. Regards, Lee.

Dear Guys and Galls, Some more developments. Leon Roskilly, a RSSG member, has offered to be the RSSG Catchment Officer for the Medway area. For those out there who do not know who Leon is, he is one of the most active and caring anglers out there working for angling on many fronts and is highly respected in the world of angling. Leon is also an expert angler and one hell of a angling writer. Leon is one busy guy so his offer to help is immensely appreciated. My personal thanks and the thanks of all RSSG members goes out to Leon. As an added bonus for myself, Leon has offered to take me Mullet fishing shortly. Perks of the job I'm glad to say! Elton Murphy on our behalf, has contacted James Holgate concerning the RSSG and James has offered to place something about the RSSG in Course Angling Today. I have contacted James myself thanking him and also offering to do an article on Trent barbel fishing by way of grateful thanks for what he will do on behalf of the RSSG. Indeed, future relations the RSSG has with the angling press in my opinion should take on the form of the RSSG working in partnership with them just as we all do on angling websites. Added to which we all know that the RSSG membership contains some wonderful angling writers who have, for to long remained in the shadows. Perhaps Dick and Graham and others might like to keep their pencils sharpened? Now we all know who Elton Murphy and Andy Frances are. We know them as really caring guys who are always willing to help out angling in any way they can. They have certainly proved that to the RSSG in recent months. It is nothing short of amazing how far we have come with their help and the help of other fishing website owners. Therefore, I am stunningly pleased to announce that Andy and Elton have both agreed to become Honorary Officers in the form of Presidents etc of the RSSG. Amazingly, they are both honoured to be asked! Of course, the reality here is that the RSSG is extremely pleased and honoured to have them. Elton has conditions however, he is adamant that before he takes up any role, he wants to get 200 RSSG individual members on board first. So come on galls and guys, lets give these blokes a hand by coming together each and everyone of us by posting on all the RSSG threads on all sites to spread the word in one massive concerted effort to tell everyone that we are RSSG members and what that means to us all. Regards, Lee.

Hi Peter, Collins says that the definition of an angler is one who fishes for sport. Strang how I like the label "angler", probably due to the mystery of going fishing as a lad reading all the magical stuff one reads as a child. On the other hand, when someone in my village see's me loading up the car with tackle on my drive and asks, " off for a spot of fishing then Lee", I reply yes and never think twice about myself accepted as "going fishing" by others or even myself. Angler? Fisherman? Oops, sorry Lyn, "fisherperson". Who really cares. Surely it is the pleasure we all derive from the pure act of going fishing/angling that really counts at the end of the day. And; Who amongst our number ever thinks of labels when the rod is bent over and the fish in our dreams surges away? Thats angling. Or er, fishing. Best regards Peter. We speak soon. And thats angling er fishing as well. Lee.

Hi Peter, Collins says that the definition of an angler is one who fishes for sport. Strang how I like the label "angler", probably due to the mystery of going fishing as a lad reading all the magical stuff one reads as a child. On the other hand, when someone in my village see's me loading up the car with tackle on my drive and asks, " off for a spot of fishing then Lee", I reply yes and never think twice about myself accepted as "going fishing" by others or even myself. Angler? Fisherman? Oops, sorry Lyn, "fisherperson". Who really cares. Surely it is the pleasure we all derive from the pure act of going fishing/angling that really counts at the end of the day. And; Who amongst our number ever thinks of labels when the rod is bent over and the fish in our dreams surges away? Thats angling. Or er, fishing. Best regards Peter. We speak soon. And thats angling er fishing as well. Lee.

Re: RSSG Hi All, To all RSSG members please be aware that; The RSSG logo is finished and available in a jpg word document to those committee members who will be needing it. Paul Whiteing has done a sterling job with the logo done so quickly and so professional as well. Next time Paul, you pay for NO Guiness OK. I have done a RSSG flyer to go into tackle shops etc and is available to download as a word document for use NOW by emailing me and I will send it on. Once I get other tasks out of the way, I will set up a printing base and these will be available by sending an email to myself when I will send them on in the post to anyone who can place them in their local tackle shops etc. Lyn sent me an idea for a RSSG membership application form which I played with and is now available for those who are not on-line and for those RSSG members who want to give them out to friends. This is available to download by contacting me on-line and there again, will be available when the printing base is set up. I have done the RSSG headed paper and that is available to RSSG officers who are going to need it for RSSG correspondence. I have managed to get a major computer paper and inks company to sponsor the RSSG for all paper and inks (colour) needed for the task of contacting all the clubs and groups within the next few months. This is a massive task that the company are aware of so nice one to them. By next weekend, the drafted RSSG constitution will be done ready for agreement at the next RSSG meeting as will the proposed scale of RSSG affiliation fees for clubs and groups. Four weeks prior to the next RSSG meeting (in the rivers close season) I will be sending invitation details of the date and venue to the RSSG membership. Please reply as quick as you can so that I can confirm those wanting to attend. In the meantime, I can announce that over 200 fishing clubs have confirmed their interest in joining the RSSG as affiliates to myself and are awaiting confirmation from the next meeting of RSSG affiliation fees. Certain angling groups have expressed similar interests as well. Until a media officer is elected, Ray Wood and myself have taken over the joint roll as media officers for the RSSG. A RSSG media statement have already been prepared and will be sent out directly to all angling press sections after the next RSSG meeting. Further to the next RSSG meeting, a third meeting is also being planned for the RSSG committee officers and officers of fishing clubs/groups to attend to discuss widening the RSSG structure quickly and effectively. Even further to that, I am presently talking to others who are actively involved in a European rivers group to establish contacts for the RSSG there along with other major contacts in global conservation groups who have similar conservation interests to our own concerning river related issues. Now I have been noticing Ian Jobling, Andy Thatcher and Bob Gill with a few others, who have been keeping the RSSG threads on other fishing sites going. Well done guys. BUT! We need EVERYONE posting on these RSSG threads banging on so the RSSG message hits home. Remember everyone, the RSSG is the ONLY rivers group that is open to all and is open to every sort of angler. So, please post and keep posting to bang the RSSG drum. Very soon, the rivers close season is here and with that, comes more bums on seats in front of their computers. We have a golden opportunity to reach these "cant go fishing" anglers very shortly so lets get out there and grab um. I like the message that some of the RSSG guys are using after their posts namely; I am a RSSG member. Are you? So come on everyone, lets get with it cos we are starting to move. Start posting and start to do our rivers a real favour. Regards, Lee. I am a RSSG member. Are you?

Re: RSSG Hi All, To all RSSG members please be aware that; The RSSG logo is finished and available in a jpg word document to those committee members who will be needing it. Paul Whiteing has done a sterling job with the logo done so quickly and so professional as well. Next time Paul, you pay for NO Guiness OK. I have done a RSSG flyer to go into tackle shops etc and is available to download as a word document for use NOW by emailing me and I will send it on. Once I get other tasks out of the way, I will set up a printing base and these will be available by sending an email to myself when I will send them on in the post to anyone who can place them in their local tackle shops etc. Lyn sent me an idea for a RSSG membership application form which I played with and is now available for those who are not on-line and for those RSSG members who want to give them out to friends. This is available to download by contacting me on-line and there again, will be available when the printing base is set up. I have done the RSSG headed paper and that is available to RSSG officers who are going to need it for RSSG correspondence. I have managed to get a major computer paper and inks company to sponsor the RSSG for all paper and inks (colour) needed for the task of contacting all the clubs and groups within the next few months. This is a massive task that the company are aware of so nice one to them. By next weekend, the drafted RSSG constitution will be done ready for agreement at the next RSSG meeting as will the proposed scale of RSSG affiliation fees for clubs and groups. Four weeks prior to the next RSSG meeting (in the rivers close season) I will be sending invitation details of the date and venue to the RSSG membership. Please reply as quick as you can so that I can confirm those wanting to attend. In the meantime, I can announce that over 200 fishing clubs have confirmed their interest in joining the RSSG as affiliates to myself and are awaiting confirmation from the next meeting of RSSG affiliation fees. Certain angling groups have expressed similar interests as well. Until a media officer is elected, Ray Wood and myself have taken over the joint roll as media officers for the RSSG. A RSSG media statement have already been prepared and will be sent out directly to all angling press sections after the next RSSG meeting. Further to the next RSSG meeting, a third meeting is also being planned for the RSSG committee officers and officers of fishing clubs/groups to attend to discuss widening the RSSG structure quickly and effectively. Even further to that, I am presently talking to others who are actively involved in a European rivers group to establish contacts for the RSSG there along with other major contacts in global conservation groups who have similar conservation interests to our own concerning river related issues. Now I have been noticing Ian Jobling, Andy Thatcher and Bob Gill with a few others, who have been keeping the RSSG threads on other fishing sites going. Well done guys. BUT! We need EVERYONE posting on these RSSG threads banging on so the RSSG message hits home. Remember everyone, the RSSG is the ONLY rivers group that is open to all and is open to every sort of angler. So, please post and keep posting to bang the RSSG drum. Very soon, the rivers close season is here and with that, comes more bums on seats in front of their computers. We have a golden opportunity to reach these "cant go fishing" anglers very shortly so lets get out there and grab um. I like the message that some of the RSSG guys are using after their posts namely; I am a RSSG member. Are you? So come on everyone, lets get with it cos we are starting to move. Start posting and start to do our rivers a real favour. Regards, Lee. I am a RSSG member. Are you?

Hi Leon, I have an electronic type writer in perfect working order yours for free if you want it. Somehow or another, I cant find the plug that links it to the internet but I'll keep trying. Nice to read that you are coming in with RSSG as an individual member Leon. It matters not for what or where we fish. It is the fishing that counts together with the various environments where we all do our fishing. So, go on, go on, go on, go on, go on, gooo oon. Give us your three quid and like Leon, make a rivers day. Regards, Lee.