Mark7

No, not at all. I refer to anglers who are unaware of the threats that affect eel stocks, and the importance of the eel as a keystone species. There will be many anglers who do not agree with our views, and that's fine. The free speech that you mention in your last post ensures that we can debate the issue. In fact, Dan's article has a positive effect, as it promotes debate on the plight of the eel. There are some interesting, and mostly very supportive, comments on the other forums. In my original post I forgot to mention the non human influences on eel recruitment, namely climate change and North Atlantic Oscillation (affecting North Atlantic Drift), so you are right, it's not all our fault. As regards deep hooking, it is possible, by using small barbless hooks, effective rigs, braid and very sensitive bite indication, to reduce this to a minimum. More eels are deep hooked by accidental capture than by dedicated eel anglers, if only due to the fact that so few of us deliberately target eels.

An interesting response, and one that has been debated on here before. As an organisation, we are confident that very few eels die as a result of capture, and our activities have little, if any, impact on the species. In any event, NAC members giving up eel fishing would result in no NAC, and consequently no one to fight the eels' corner, unless, of course, you plan to take up the cause? As for Dan's comments "not doing anything to speed up their extinction": any unenlightened angler reading his editorial might be inclined to agree, and thus not support eel conservation. His ill judged remarks certainly don't help! Finally. we are not telling anyone what to do or think, merely making our views known, as you have.

In the January edition of Coarse Angling Today, Dan Williams, Assistant Editor of Pike and Predator Magazine, writes a guest editorial about the decline of the eel, and how a foreign parasite has damaged eel stocks. He then writes : “Some things evolve and some things become extinct, that's just a fact of life. We can possibly help to improve future eel stocks, but do we need to ? Why not let nature take its course, which may see that parasite evolve and the eel become extinct ? Why spend money in this day and age on something that may only help a few anglers ? Future generations just may not have the eel to catch so they will have to focus on another species. Just like we watch meerkats at the zoo instead of panda's......” This is an irresponsible and very limited comment, ignoring the importance of the eel in our waters. He has completely overlooked the importance of the species to our fisheries in a wider context. On behalf of the National Anguilla Club, I will be contacting the magazine and the journalist involved, and ask for a retraction in the next issue, and an attempt at an intelligent analysis of the eel’s situation. The eel is a "Keystone" species, which means that: "it has a disproportionately large effect on its environment relative to its abundance. Such species play a critical role in maintaining the structure of an ecology, affecting many other organisams in an ecosystem and helping to determine the types and numbers of various other species in the community". Consequently, apart from the fact that some of us like to fish for them, eels are critical to the health of our waters and fish stocks. An example of this is the theory that otters are turning to alternative food sources in areas where eels are no longer plentiful. As for some waters having good stocks of mature eel, then that is most certainly true, Equally, however, there are many waters where eels were once commonplace that are now sparsely stocked. The complicated and extended lifecycle of the eel and the threats facing it mean that we will not see a real decline in mature eel numbers in some areas for a few years yet. The Anguillicola crassus parasite is only one of many factors affecting eels stocks: commercial fishing, barriers in rivers, predation, pollution and loss of wetlans being but a few. The EA and conservation organisations are making inroads into the barriers and obstruction issues facing both migrating eels and returning elvers, and that will have an impact. Sadly, all attempts at limiting eel exploitation have had little effect. What we would like to see, however,is the angling publications supporting the effort to conserve the eel, and not encouraging a "let them go extinct" attitude. Angling Times and Anglers Mail have both adopted a very supportive role in the past, and it is unfortunate that a publication such as Coarse Angling Today cannot take a more responsible conservational stance. __________________ Mark Salt

There you are Budgie, a suitably Neanderthal response from Mr Coppolo, proving my point exactly.

Morning Budgie I see no point in posting anything on here just to feed the ravings of Messrs Copollo, Luxton and McCully. Maybe I would if they learn to at least respect the views of others and develop basic levels of courteousy and politeness, but I fear that that's a lost cause. Regards Mark

Not at all, it is good news, but a sight that is less and less common.

You are a rude man, evidenced by your posts in response to any opinion that does not coincide with your own. Your last but one effort "The bulls***ers guide to the universe" endorses this. At least Sportsman chose to cloak his ridicule in humour. I cannot see why I should bother to justify why I continue to fish for eels to one so crass, but for the record: The EA, DEFRA, AT or any scientist that I have met or read have no problem with catch or release, and there is no evidence that it has a negative impact on eel stocks. We (the NAC) have not campaigned for an end to eel fishing for the pot, although I personally am not distressed that it has been banned. We have, however, politely asked anglers not to use eels as bait, because there are many sustainable alternatives. Why anyone should wish to intentionally kill a member of an endangered species is beyond me. Responsible catch and release is completely different to fishing for the pot. We continue to supply catch data to the EA to assist their monitoring efforts, and we constantly seek to reduce the incidence of deep hooking in our pursuit of eels. If you were to put the same effort into composing a civil post then you might find more anglers willing to post on this section of the forum. As it is, the aggressive and pompous bluster of you and a few others seems to have driven out all but those who are of a similar ilk.

Written by you?

I think that sums it up rather well. Where did you get your inside information from? We try to keep our regimen secret

Yes, it's returning elvers that are reduced by a huge proportion. Reporters that don't understand the eel seem not to make a distinction between the elver and the adult eel. In some areas the adult eel population is still reasonable, and in others it has collapsed. The major concern is the reduced elver runs, hence the elver passes that are being installed by the EA and Rivers Trusts, and the focus on allowing as many silvers to return by reducing entrainment (chopping up in pumps and turbines) and bypassing tidal flaps etc. The reduction in elver numbers has worsened alarmingly, and I believe is estimated to have reduced by 95% in the last year. The mature eel population will take longer to show such a dramatic reduction due to the long lifecycle.

The eels that are being used after being trapped on their way out of the river systems on the way back to the Sargasso as silvers for the Eeliad project are over 4lbs, as anything smaller would not support the tag that is being used. They have tracked one for a considerable distance heading in the right direction. I used a similar argument to this a few years ago (eels over 2lbs don't go back as silvers) during a presentation at an eel "conference" and was quickly and I now believe correctly put right by Alan Walker from CEFAS. It would seem that given the right conditions eels will silver up and return to the Sargasso at any size. I have caught large eels (5lb+) in completely encllosed waters in the autumn that have silvered up, with larger eyes and changed pigmentation. These eels would have no way out of the water, and are obviously responding to a cue to migrate. Scientist seem to think that the process can reverse if the eel cannot escape. Onc again, as with most things eel, there is little solid evidence for a lot of this.

Well said Leon, and unerringly close to the truth, and yes, I suppose it will seem pretentious to those it applies to!!

If you have deduced that from my comment earlier referring to a meeting with the AT and EA regarding the eel, then once again you are reading into a post what you want to believe. The meeting I am referring to took place last week, and was to discuss the progress made toward implementing the Eel Management Plans, focusing on localised restocking with elvers, removal of barriers, bypassing of obstructions, improving habitat and monitoring results. We did not discuss stopping you catching them to stuff down your craw, but we did discuss the regulation of the elver fisheries, and how they might assist restocking. I was in two minds as to whether to bother responding to your post, as it just perpetuates what has turned into another attack on the AT, men in suits, and any other organisation that doesn't behave as you would like, but I gave in to temptation. Before you now jump in and tell me that all the initiatives mentioned above are not tackling the issue of the decline in glass eel and elver recruitment, then I would suggest that you find out a little more about the likely causes of the problem. As an example of the good work that is being carried out, the bypassing of a barrier on a west country river which was completely impassable to elver passage prior to the EA installation of the pass, resulted in the upstream passage of 10,700 elvers in the first 6 hours, and 47,000 for the year. Allowing elvers to move upstream into suitable habitat that is currently unavailable to them is a critical part of the solution, and the EA have been quietly installing these passes for some time now, but there are an awful lot more that need doing as a priority, and the EMPs are designed to make it happen. I am not interested in who is responsible for lack of action in the past, but am very interested in what happens in the future, and that's where my energies go. I will post a summary of the meeting and the ZSL lecture featured in the BBC report as soon a s I get time to write it, as I am sure that there are anglers out there who want to know what is happening. As usual, I guess yourself and Mr Luxton will want to have the last word.....

Hello again Barry I will post an update during the course of the next week or so, but not for your benefit. You will continue to rant and rave no matter what I, or anyone else, says. There are, however, anglers out there who have an open mind, and that is why we keep at it. And I always hook eels in the mouth, by the way, these days invariably in the scissors with a barbless size 10 that falls out in the net. Small hooks, hair rigged baits, off bottom rigs, braid and sensitive bite indication make all the difference. Have a good weekend and watch that blood pressure!

Good evening Barry and Colin W Always entertaining to read one of your rants, Barry, aimed at the "men in suits" that you seem so frightened of. Did you have a bad experience with a man in a suit as a child Steve, the reporting on the ZSL lecture is not very accurate. I attended, and when I get a chance I will summarise that, and a subsequent meeting with the AT and EA regarding the eel. I will leave it for a few days to allow poor Barry's apoplexy to subside

You are very skilled, Steve, at highlighting issues that displease you, and ignoring those that you cannot rail against. I recollect that your previous posts have objected strongly to the fact that nothing was being done to stop commercial elver/eel fishing, whilst stating that anglers had been singled out as a "soft target". The remainder of the press release, that you have chosen not to comment on, clearly states that they are now asking for a ban on commercial fishing: "The Angling Trust representing recreational anglers, is demanding the rules go farther by asking European lawmakers to stop all eel catching. “Our members want a total ban and for those catching and processing eels commercially to find new ways to earn their living,” said the chairman, Mike Heylin. ”Consumers can help, too, by not buying eel products.”" It seems to me that the AT are now doing exactly what you suggested they should do. Perhaps a "well done" to AT might be in order?

I don't think that there has been a run of elvers into the Kennet for many years, which explains the lack of small to medium eels. The pits along the kennet still produce some big eels, obviously from historic elver runs. I suppose (no scientific evidence for the Kennet specifically) that this is due to the numerous barriers to passage along the canal and river. Modern weirs and sluices are virtually impassable for elvers, and are believed to a major contributor to the lack of eels in some river systems. As part of the Eel Management Plans, the EA will be building elver passes to surmount these barriers starting this year. I have a meeting with the EA and Angling Trust on 20th January to discuss the implementation of this and the stocking of elvers, amongst other things, and I will post an article summarising this on the forum shortly afterwards. Mark Salt National Anguilla Club

Thanks Sharkbyte Chris Daphne, the NAC Environment Officer "sank his teeth into" this (in the nicest possible way, of course)a while ago, with the result that any recreational eel angler can apply for a license, and it will be granted for fishing on a C&R basis. I understand that the minister responsible has also undertaken to change the wording of the instrument to allow recreational C&R angling. As for your comment "you and your ilk are the challenge facing angling today" then I think you are over reacting a little. This post started out as a plea for anglers not to use eels as bait, and has been seen by the angling anarchist contingent as an attack on their right to fish. More than a little ridiculous, I think!

No, Steve, not a joke, and the fact that commercial fishing continues does not, in my opinion, justify the catching of an endangered species by a recreational angler for the pot. I have more sympathy with commercial angling, as it is someones livelihood, than I do with a recreational angler who could choose to help conserve an endangered species, albeit in a very small way by not taking them to use as food or bait, but chooses not to do so. It is always a long, slow process to restrict or limit any commercial activity because the individuals who make a living from it will obviously be disadvantaged, which is why you will not see a ban on commercial elver/eel fishing tomorrow. However, I do not believe that you, as a recreational angler, will suffer any fiscal disadvantage from not taking eels for bait or the pot. As for Budgie's comments regarding the possible banning of eel fishing due to C&R mortality rates, then I would hope that we (National Anguilla Club) will be able to demonstrate that mortality rates experienced by our members will not impact on the survival of the eel. By working with the organisations that are shaping the future we will be in the right position to do this. I guess that this post will now result in the usual flurry of requests for evidence of low C&R mortality rates, demands to know what we are doing to achieve a ban on elver fishing, accusations of being condescending and patronising, and a generally negative comment on the AT, men in suits, NGOs, specimen groups and single species clubs. This is always an interesting forum to post on, but I wonder how much more would be achieved if the "cup half empty" regular posters on here put their huge amounts of energy into a more positive approach to the challenges facing angling today.

Afternoon Steve Leaving aside the commercial fishing issues for a moment, perhaps you might consider this statement, sent to me a while ago by a fellow Anglers Net member. It echoes my sentiments perfectly, and illustrates why I feel that the ban on taking eels is correct: "Why someone living in a society with abundant food would want to hunt and eat a creature listed on the IUCN Red List as 'critically endangered' and thus remove the chance of any particular eel making it back to breed beats me!" Regards Mark

Some of are you are very good at reading into posts what you wish to hear, and interpreting it as a slight. I did not say that most of the members are impolite, only that Jaffa is one of the more polite ones. You do seem to enjoy correcting people. The new bye laws have been arrived at through consultation with anglers, scientists and organisations. I am not saying that I agree or disagree, but we (the NAC) certainly have not played a major part in the formulation. I wish we were that powerfull. We all have until 20th January to influence and comment on them. Will you? As for stopping fishing for eels, I covered that on page 4, post 3, and also page 4 last post, and on page 5.

Good morning Jaffa You are right when you state that we do not know why the eel is in decline, but not when you state that we are experts or that we think that there should be “more law and regulation”. We (the NAC ) are just enthusiastic amateurs that fish for many different species, but are serious about eels. I cannot see much point in bringing in rules and regulations that are unenforceable, and all our original post did was politely ask anglers not to use eels as bait. I don’t think any of of our posts on here have asked for more regulations or laws, and we are concentrating our efforts with Angling Trust and the EA on the stocking of elvers above estuarine barriers, and the removal or bypass of barriers and obstructions to passage, not on passing laws affecting recreational anglers and eels. We would like to see the end of commercial eel fishing, and continue to press for that, at least until stocks recover. It is because we do not know exactly why the elver is in decline that we tend to try to work on lots of different issues. We may get it wrong at times, but at least we try! As for the life cycle of the eel, although the oldest recorded eel reached age 85, it would seem that the length of life cycle from a Leptocephalus leaving the spawning ground to a mature eel returning to the Sargasso to spawn could be as short as 15 years, although I am ready to stand corrected if someone has a more informed opinion. I am as guilty as anyone of having a closed mind at times, and I take your point regarding opening up my view. I’m delighted that you refrained from calling me an ignorant green urban-you must be one of the politer members on here

We stand, heads bowed, dispirited, in the face of such mature, intelligent and articulate comment. The sight of a tub of jellied eels has sent us running for cover. I hope that Santa brings you Lego for Xmas Steve, so that your mind remains occupied Merry Xmas to all thinking anglers!

Us "eel club boys" have better things to do, and as you pointed out, you know it all anyway I will continue to read your posts, however, if only to marvel at your ability to criticise everything, and offer nothing by way of a constuctive solution.

Yes Dave, I believe I mentioned North Atlantic Oscillation and climate change as well. The factors affecting the eel are daunting, to say the least.