Rolling Meat

[Rusty]

In my efforts to catch chub by different methods and baits I’ve now ticked off trotting maggots and ledgering cheesepaste (only 1 fish but it still counts).

 

My local river has a few swims which lend themselves perfectly to rolling a bait freeline along the bottom avoiding overhanging branches.

 

Such a simple method seems fraught with uncertainty though.

 

Is the idea to stay in contact with the bait and lift it occasionally allowing it go a few feet at a time and then settle (might be difficult with overhanging snags) or do you try to keep it constantly moving along? If the latter how do you know that your bait is actually moving and hasn’t been overtaken by reel line above it (the reel might still be feeding line)?

 

Is it a method that can only be used where the flow would carry a freebie bait a long way down river or can it be used in a gentle flow as well? Do hair rigged baits work with this method?

 

I have visions of thinking that my bait is perfectly positioned only to find that it’s just below my feet and twenty yards of line has drifted off downstream

 

Any experienced rollers among us able to help?

[chavender]

well its not exact

 

 

(W.T.F happened there then ? answers on a postcard !)

 

 

Please Ignor this phopah ,you never saw it ,it never happened

Edited February 4, 2009 by chavender

[chavender]

well its not exactly a free lined bait ,you see there's a few different ways of doing this ,bouncing ,trundling,rolling etc

 

 

bouncing:

this one is to simply use 1 or 2 ssg (swan shot) pinched onto the line about 6-8" from the hook (second weight/shot 4" further along) this will give both casting weight and just enough too slow the bait and hold bottom if needed .but if cast accross the flow will bounce & bump its way back towards the nearside bank in a arc and can be good for searching out the bottom in a wide area as the bait moves down and accross in steps controlled by the balance of the size of the bow in the water and weight

 

trundling (aka as trefer west does it):

trundling is very simular too bouncing but the casting weight is on the hook itself (leaving nothing too tangle) and can either be used too search accross the river bed or used too trundle the bait downstream in a steady pace along a single path .again controlled by the balance of weight too bow /slack line out .

 

rolling meat (aka ray walton way) :

is also simular too bouncing in that you have a casting weight on the line (a breakaway weight of either plasterzine/clay or heavy metal putty stuff) moulded around a former (swivel or bead) about 6-8" from the hook ,its fished to travel in a strait line down stream ,once cast out the angler follows the bait parrellel from the bank maintaining the bow in the line to keep a steady progress

 

ray rolling away:

 

Youtube Video ->

 

theres a new book out on barbel tactic's with rays guide too rolling meat in it .

A compilation of original CAT barbel articles/various methods//baits/anglers etc. 143 pages Hardback or Paperback. http://www.totalcoarsefishing.com/

 

 

 

Available in Softback

Barbel - A Handbook of Techniques £9.95 + £1.50 Postage

 

or Hardback

Barbel - A Handbook of Techniques £12.95 + £2.00 Postage

 

Available Here

all these methods require weight to retard the bait in the flow by slowing it down even too a standstill at times but prefably just inching along the bottom

Edited February 4, 2009 by chavender

[Worms]

In my efforts to catch chub by different methods and baits I’ve now ticked off trotting maggots and ledgering cheesepaste (only 1 fish but it still counts).

 

My local river has a few swims which lend themselves perfectly to rolling a bait freeline along the bottom avoiding overhanging branches.

 

Such a simple method seems fraught with uncertainty though.

 

Is the idea to stay in contact with the bait and lift it occasionally allowing it go a few feet at a time and then settle (might be difficult with overhanging snags) or do you try to keep it constantly moving along? If the latter how do you know that your bait is actually moving and hasn’t been overtaken by reel line above it (the reel might still be feeding line)?

 

Is it a method that can only be used where the flow would carry a freebie bait a long way down river or can it be used in a gentle flow as well? Do hair rigged baits work with this method?

 

I have visions of thinking that my bait is perfectly positioned only to find that it’s just below my feet and twenty yards of line has drifted off downstream

 

Any experienced rollers among us able to help?

I think you'll probably get a million different opinions on this but here's my tuppence worth.

 

Pure freelining is difficult unless the water is perfect for the method. I find that the best baits for freelining are those that float or have neutral buoyancy. Heavier baits sink to the bottom and the slower flow of the water over the river bed tends to have a braking effect on them. Only when the line has been swept past the bait will it move again. If using a 'pin this can be after all of your line has been 'trotted' down the river, the bait as you have observed, staying obstinately at your feet!

 

If using a 'pin I therefore try and gently slow the reel so that the bait is not too far behind. One problem with this is that unless wading your bait usually ends up under the bank after about 10 yds.

 

If not wading I usually put a small piece of indicator putty (as used when nymph fishing) on the line. This acts both as a buoyancy aid to keep the bait off the bottom and as a bite indicator. The method has worked well with cheese and worms for me so it should work with meat. Before indicator putty I used a bit of cork with a slot cut in it. I generally put the indicator putty on at approximately water depth, maybe a bit less on very quick water. This method has worked for me in depths of from 6" to 3"+ and in water from 'gentle' to 'too fast to wade in'.

 

Line choice can make a difference but this is a case for experimentation and very water dependent. You may have to 'mend' the line frequently especially if fishing across a current. In these circumstances a floating line is better (IMO). Being a sad old git I use, err, let's say 'traditional' tackle and some very good freelining lines are old braided silk lines that can be greased to float high or left ungreased as a neutral buoyancy line. Another advantage of these old lines is that they are highly visble so allow you to mend your line before drag starts and in my experience they don't seem to put the fish off. Perhaps modern lightweight braids could be used in the same manner?

 

Rod choice can be important but I generally find a 'tippy' rod works better for casting and mending line.

 

I usually only freeline if the water is too shallow to float fish and/or repeated casting with weights would put fish off. Other examples include fishing from very shallow water into a drop-off to get those big chub on small streams that spook so easily and in dense weed beds again usually for big chub in the summer.

 

I've never tried hair rigs, I put the bait on the hook (Probably raise a stink here but IMO that's tantamount to foul-hooking. Again just my opinion and as a commonly accepted method I have no problems at all if other people do it).

 

I hope some of that might help you. If you find the right combination of line, bait water speed etc for your river and chub when you do catch one you'll be pleasantly surprised at the scrap even small fish put up. I frequently use the method with a very tippy 12' Spanish reed rod with a split cane tip for dace. Great fun!

[Andy Macfarlane]

Is the idea to stay in contact with the bait and lift it occasionally allowing it go a few feet at a time and then settle (might be difficult with overhanging snags) or do you try to keep it constantly moving along? If the latter how do you know that your bait is actually moving and hasn’t been overtaken by reel line above it (the reel might still be feeding line)?

 

Whether you wish the bait to pause..move...pause...move or remain static is up to you but basically it's the same as any touch legering type of method. You have to keep in contact with the weight, rolled bait or whatever is pinning your bait to the bottom. If you're rolling a bait, you should have a tight line and you should be able to feel the bait trundling along the bottom as it makes contact with whatever it comes into contact with, be it stones, rocks, weeds, sand, silt, detritus or a fish. Your line should never form a bow or you've lost contact with your bait, your weight and any possible bites, which completely defeats the point and may lead to deep-hooking or snagging. Deciding what is what is a matter of practice and you'll probably lose a fair amount of tackle in doing so but lead wire or lead for touch lech legering need not be expensive. If you're using less than the weight of an SSG (I think...is that right?) you'll need non-toxic shot or some kind of material that doesn't kill things that may eat it. If you are going to use more weight than that then lead soldering wire or flat roofing lead is what I'd probably go for. You don't mind losing it that way and you can be far more carefree about where you put your bait, rather than worrying about the possibility of snagging up. It's a bit like spinning. Once you start making your own, you don't care half as much about where you put them because they aren't putting a massive hole on your pocket. Don't bother with drilled bullets and all that stuff until you're fairly adept at deciphering what type of terrain you're bait is travelling through.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Andy Macfarlane

[mark100]

Gents,

 

This winter i have got right back into river fishing after 15years of carp fishingg. I have bought a J Wilson Avon rod and have been wandering the banks of my local river. All i have caught are roach and Dace. I know chub are in there. Up until now i have been trotting with maggots, bread and cheese.

 

Im gonna give legering a go this weekend probably with meat and worms. I was gonna use a snap link with perhaps a 1oz leger free running on the mainline.

 

Do you think rolling/moving the bait along the bottom is better than holding bottom and using a more static bait? I guess both have their day!

[Rusty]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

 

Andy, your point about the tight line is an issue that's confusing me. In the Ray Walton video the other guy is casting to the far bank and rolling the bait downstream, if he keeps a tight line then the bait/lead must travel in an arc towards the near bank (mustn't it?) albeit going downstream as well.

 

In his recent post about the PB Chub Anderoo said that he had to allow a bow in the line to ledger the far bank of a fairly fast river. Why would a bow in the line allow the lead to remain static? More line in the water means more drag surely.

 

Think I need to experiment and understand the effects of flow and line drag. It seems straightforward enough but I'm always amazed at how even a gentle river can shift a lead which I think ought to be rooted to the river bed.

[chavender]

In his recent post about the PB Chub Anderoo said that he had to allow a bow in the line to ledger the far bank of a fairly fast river. Why would a bow in the line allow the lead to remain static? More line in the water means more drag surely.

 

i'm not sure (perhaps anderoo can confirm this) but anderoo might of been upstream ledgering ! where a critically balanced feeder/ledger hold bottom (only just) by the fact that the bigger the bow in the line the more the water pressure on it is spead ,so lessening its effect on the weight making it very sensative & responsive ,done correctly it'll still put a bend in a quivertip untill a hooked fish dislodges the weight

 

its a killer method

[Worms]

well its not exactly a free lined bait ,you see there's a few different ways of doing this ,bouncing ,trundling,rolling etc

 

 

bouncing:

this one is to simply use 1 or 2 ssg (swan shot) pinched onto the line about 6-8" from the hook (second weight/shot 4" further along) this will give both casting weight and just enough too slow the bait and hold bottom if needed .but if cast accross the flow will bounce & bump its way back towards the nearside bank in a arc and can be good for searching out the bottom in a wide area as the bait moves down and accross in steps controlled by the balance of the size of the bow in the water and weight

 

trundling (aka as trefer west does it):

trundling is very simular too bouncing but the casting weight is on the hook itself (leaving nothing too tangle) and can either be used too search accross the river bed or used too trundle the bait downstream in a steady pace along a single path .again controlled by the balance of weight too bow /slack line out .

 

rolling meat (aka ray walton way) :

is also simular too bouncing in that you have a casting weight on the line (a breakaway weight of either plasterzine/clay or heavy metal putty stuff) moulded around a former (swivel or bead) about 6-8" from the hook ,its fished to travel in a strait line down stream ,once cast out the angler follows the bait parrellel from the bank maintaining the bow in the line to keep a steady progress

 

ray rolling away:

 

Youtube Video ->

 

all these methods require weight to retard the bait in the flow by slowing it down even too a standstill at times but prefably just inching along the bottom

 

That river in the Ray Walton video looks nice, where is it?

 

My favourite chub and barbel river doesn't have nice neat banks like that, too many trees and steep banks to fish that style. I suppose that's why it's such a good chub river!

[Andy Macfarlane]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

 

Andy, your point about the tight line is an issue that's confusing me. In the Ray Walton video the other guy is casting to the far bank and rolling the bait downstream, if he keeps a tight line then the bait/lead must travel in an arc towards the near bank (mustn't it?) albeit going downstream as well.

 

If your standing at the head of a run for instance then you'd be right, the bait would arc towards the the near bank but fishing from the head of a run is, in my opinion, the worst possible place to be standing. If you're standing at the tail of a run, where you're less likely to give yourself away, you'd be constantly taking up slack, thus keeping a tight line.

Even if you are put in the position where you have no choice but to fish from the head of run, then some contact with the weight must still be had but then you'd be feeding line as the weight trundles or makes it's way downstream. It's a case of giving when required.

A slack line or a bow just creates drag and you lose contact with everything that is happening on the bottom.

Does that 'elp?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Andy Macfarlane