Pike cull

[Sportsman]

I think the same thing Gerry. (BTW we didn't blank, we just failed to catch ) Having said that, the reports came from pike anglers rather than the keepers. I have to say that i expected the pike to take anything we threw at them, given that they don't seem to have much natural food. They should be starving!

I'll try again with the fly from a float tube

Whilst we were fishing I had a long chat with the keeper about the advisability of trying to remove all of the Pike. It appears that he is getting pressure from his bosses as there are Salmon which run to the spawning grounds through the Loch and they are worried about the Pike taking the Salmon smolts. That makes more sense as there are no shortage of Lochans full of wild brownies in the area, and I couldn't really work out what they were worried about.

Dave

[StuMac]

I think I know this loch, if not I know one like it. I actually think the pike have been there for a while, Queen Victoria is supposed to have commented on them (That gives a big clue as to where the Loch I'm thinking of is!).

 

Although a lot of the pike caught get killed, the walk up from the road really does deter most people and the amount of angling pressure is very low. I know a few people who fish it, and eat most of what they catch. The biggest they've had is a 12 lb. As a peacful and tranquil spot (on a good day) it can hardly be bettered, but I have heard that some guy who was on big brother made a film up there, which was to be shown on TV. The crowds may well descend if he gives the location away.

 

For what it's worth, I think that the water is just too high, cold and unproductive to produce anything really big. Winter is a very long season when you are nearly 2000 ft up in the North of Scotland, and summer can be pretty grim too.

 

Whilst it is generally true that pike populations sort themselves out in the way described by the PAC, the links above are to studies which are very heavily biased. Winifred Frost's work which underlies the 'Jack Explosion' idea is quoted. She was probaly the best authority on pike biology in her time, and I don't think that there's anyone of her stature around now.

 

However, not all of Winifred's ideas are as popular with pike anglers, and these tend to be just ignored. She did, for example, always maintain that pike predation drove the average size of prey fish down. Her view was that waters with good heads of pike would produce fewer specimen sized roach, bream etc. and that, from the perspective of anglers interested in these species, pike removal would be beneficial.

 

With respect to this loch, the conventional wisdom in the USA / canada is very different. They feel that the intoduction of pike into cold and unproductive waters can have very severe effect on the natural populations of trout and char - in some casses causing local extinction.

 

There have been lots of studies of the effects of pike introductuions into lakes high up in the rockies / sierras (particularly lake Davis). The 'end senario' they depict is not a balanced water, but a water dominated by large numbers of small, under fed pike that prevent trout char populations re-establishing themselves(hammer handles as the call them in the US).

 

Whilst all big pike are female, not all female pike are big. It is perfectly possible to have a functioning pike population with very few fish weighing more than a few pounds.

 

Not sure who's right, but I think it's imprtant and interestnig to look at both sides of an issue like this.

[Sportsman]

Your on the right Loch StuMac

Thanks for an interesting post. I feel that the USA pattern may well hold here. The trout would have been struggling, it's a marginal water on a good day and I can see that the pike wouldn't help. I am still surprised that given the apparent numbers of stunted / starving pike we didn't get some interest.

Interesting to hear about the Queen Vic connection.

The pike have obviously been there a lot longer than I was aware of and the "balance" between predator and prey doesn't seem to have been established over the last 100+ years. I am doubtful whether removing them at this stage will make any difference.

I agree about the walk up, if I couldn't drive, I wouldn't go, but I do think it will be a great place to drift around in a float tube for a few hours, when the weather permits

Dave

[StuMac]

May have huge potential if global warming kicks in!!

 

Send me a PM and I can advise of a better hill loch, that does doubles / twenties, also a fantastic spot to fish in!

[Steve Walker]

StuMac:

Winifred Frost

Funded my PhD, Winifred did.

[StuMac]

Did she!!!

 

I am not worthy!!! (Grovel Grovel)

 

Wjat was she like? I did a degree in Zoology but left the field, ended up in phamacology but always had the urge to get back into real science and study fish!!

 

[ 27. September 2005, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: StuMac ]

[Steve Walker]

(Winifred Frost)

 

Ah, I'm afraid I never met her; when she died, she left some (possibly all) of her assets to the Freshwater Biological Association which were used to set up the Frost studentship. I spent three years at the Windermere lab working on otoliths.

 

Unfortunately, while I loved working in fisheries science, one of the things I learnt while doing it was how lousy the career prospects are. Poorly paid with senior scientists spending too much time managing staff and filling in forms, and stressed out of their minds.

 

I now write computer software for a living. I enjoy it for much the same reasons I enjoyed science, and at least it pays well, but if I won the lottery, I think I'd go back to fisheries science and do it for free.

 

[ 28. September 2005, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Steve Walker ]