DILEMMA or changing values?

[Guest Peter Waller]

Jim Gibbinson, a well respected angler and writer, wrote the following in his book, 'Modern Specimen Hunting':-

 

'No less authority than Fred Buller has expressed total satisfaction with Tommy Morgan's 47 lb 11 oz Lomond pike and has made it clear that he regards it as the rightful UK record. I don't doubt that Tommy Morgan caught a pike weighing 47 lb 11 oz but I am not 100% happy that it was taken in a manner that entitles it to record status.

It was, by Morgan's own admission, caught on a rod lashed to a tree on an island while he and a friend were amusing themselves catching perch from a boat. In my opinion this constituted a dead-line and the capture does not, therefore, fall within the catagory of fair angling.'

 

This was first published in 1983. So here is the dilemma. And I am aiming fair and square at the carp and bivvy boy sector of our sport! Where is the difference in lashing a rod to a tree and leaving a rod in a rod pod? Granted a degree of sophistication is involved with the pod. Morgan was amusing himself perch fishing. Now, is it not true that many anglers leave their rods out fishing whilst they 'amuse themselves' by watching their T.V. whilst in their bivvy, amuse themselves with their girl friend (!), or even nod off? A difference, to a degree, but sufficient to ask that, in principle, is it so vastly different? My feeling is that in practice it is pretty much the same. Morgan was relying on the pike hooking itself. Sounds rather similar to the self hooking of carp! So what's changed? Morgan thought it acceptable in the 1940's, Jim thought it unacceptable in the '80's, angling society appears to think it acceptable at the turn of the centuary. So does this mean that Tommy Morgan's claim should now be reconsidered in the light of changing values?

Before anyone jumps down by throat, the only reason I am posting this thread is one of curiosity, my gibes at carp anglers should not be taken with more than a pinch of salt! Having always regarded Morgan's fish as the record and then having picked Gibbinson's book up at a car-boot sale, I read his words with a degree of amusement, seeing how opinions appear to change over the years.

 

[This message has been edited by Peter Waller (edited 21 March 2001).]

[Guest Elton]

Not jumping down your throat, Peter, but I remember fishing at a PAC get together and at least three televisions could be heard in bivvies. Leon Roskilly and Ray Farrell will probably remember it.

 

Why not open the question up a bit?

 

Tight lines,

 

Elton

 

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Anglers' Net

Keeping It Virtual...

[Guest Peter Waller]

Fair comment Elton, consider it opened up! I did mention 'bivvy boys' in the initial posting, a breed that is not confined to carp fishing, some would say regretfully!

[Guest andy jack]

Is a rod pod not just a free standing multiple rod rest? Indeed some carp Anglers use single rod rests, prefering them for stability. So what is the difference between a pod, and a normal rod rest? Certainly my rods are no more teathered than any other anglers. If I was to forget to put my bait runner on, I could kiss the rod good bye if I was to recive a fast take. The same could applie to any other angler who takes his eye of the ball. It is not the status of the rod i.e. teathered or un teathered, that allows a carp angler to engage in other activities, whilst fishing. This stems from the method of bite indication, in the form of electronic bite alarms. Rules covering unattended rods are quite clear, 10 yards if I am not mistaken. Electronic alarms only indicate line movement, just like a float or a quiver tip, because you do not have to sit staring at them does not in turn suggest you are not paying any attention.

How any one could compare a rod lashed to a tree, to be fished with no form of bite indication, to a modern carp set up, is beyond me.

Just another excuse, for another round of carp angler bashing, if you ask me.

A common passtime wich gets right up my nose.

[Guest Newt]

To give a slightly different perspective to this - In the US, we probably do a great deal more catching of fish with fixed rigs than you in the UK. Not uncommon to tether your line to a springy tree branch and rely on the branch to hook and keep the fish. Catches on these type set-ups are NOT canidates for any of the rod&reel records. I would have to liken a rod tied to a tree in the same category.

 

OTOH, we also cannot use a hair rig to catch if we intend to compete for many rod&reel records as they specify the bait must be attached to the hook or you must be using a lure. I haven't a clue why this is the rule but it is. Go figure. The largest carp caught in this country on rod&reel was taken on a hair and is therefore not the record fish. Disallowed.

 

If you think a rule is stupid, get it changed. Until then, you just gotta live with it.

 

Peter - I am curious about your disdain of people who use bivies (unless "bivvy boys" has another meaning than the literal) and why you say

a breed that is not confined to carp fishing, some would say regretfully!

.

 

If the term strictly refers to folks who use a small tent to provide some comforts as they stay out for several days, that seems a reasonable practice to me. Maybe I'm missing something. Otherwise, this does look like a "cheap shot" as we would say over here.

[Guest mpbdsnu]

I'm not just a carp angler, I enjoy all forms of fishing, but perhaps need a little more experience in some. I often - depending on the venue - will have one rod set up legering for carp and one rod I'll float fish for - whatever!

 

I set up my rod-pod for convenience and use one bite alarm obviously with the leger rod so that I can concentrate on the float. I will screw an old fashioned rod rest top in to the rod pod near side and fish that way.

So why the following?:

 

"And I am aiming fair and square at the carp and bivvy boy sector of our sport! Where is the difference in lashing a rod to a tree and leaving a rod in a rod pod?"

 

I along with a number of others on this site are becoming increasingly tired of comments made from certain quarters aimed specifically at carp anglers!

 

I use a rod pod, I like to fish for carp, I own a bivvie! So what? Live and let live!

[Guest Gaffer]

Originally posted by Peter Waller:

So here is the dilemma. And I am aiming fair and square at the carp and bivvy boy sector of our sport! Where is the difference in lashing a rod to a tree and leaving a rod in a rod pod?

 

'Aiming'????

 

C'mon Peter, I thought you had enough intelligence to work that out or is a dig?

 

Oh, and what's the dilemma?

 

Gaffer

 

http://www.BivvyBoyz.com

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Gaffer (edited 22 March 2001).]

[Guest Steve Burke]

Peter,

 

Tommy Morgan's fish was caught whilst he was out in a boat - very different to being in a bivvie next to the rods!

 

However, I have a certain amount ot sympathy for your views about fishing whilst asleep overnight in a bivvy. It's not for me, but I wouldn't dream of knocking anyone else for doing so, especially as I've never tried it.

 

Sportsmanship is a personal issue, and where the dividing line is drawn seems to be ever changing. Fifty years ago there was a heated debate in the angling press about fixed spool reels. Some considered them cheating on the grounds that even a beginner could cast a long way and no apprenticeship was required to learn how to cast with a centrepin. I suspect that something similar was said about reels themselves in the first place!

 

Something has certainly been said about fishfinders. Yet by your own admission you use one! No, I don't consider them unsporting either! But one man's meat.......

 

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Wingham Fisheries

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/fisheries/wingham.htm

[Guest Gav Walker]

What dilemma?A rod on a rod pod is no more tethered than one one two rod rests,or two V-shaped sticks for that matter.The only difference is about 60 quid.

 

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Gav

[Guest Scott]

As far as I can see the rod was tied to the tree to prevent it being pulled in.

You can now buy rests, pods etc that are advertised as preventing the same thing.

We have all seen anglers that have to run from someone else swim back to their own when the alarms goes (notice I said anglers, no mention of carp/pike).

The question is how far away from your rods do you have to be before it does'nt count?

 

Scott.

 

Andy Jack when you put things like

 

"that allows a carp angler to engage in other activities, whilst fishing".

 

Dont complain when people start carp bashing if you want to engage in other activities why bother carrying all your tackle with you.

I go fishing to catch fish.