I Resent . . . .

[Guest 'eelfisher']

Dear Peter

Are you not a member of any single specie group or of NASA....If you were, then you would be very welcome and for the record, the SAA meeting would be just as interesting if you came along to that as well.

Surely you have some connection to being entitled to come to the meeting, don't you.

I would have hoped so anyway.....

Yours With Respect....

PS...I don't for one minute think that the last post brought you back out to play...However, welcome back anyway.

We are only waiting for firm quotes from you as to the questions asked...I for one cannot find the answers in any of your posts...well not in the right words. Just say what worries you so that productive and constructive debate can take place and those you feel less than adeqate to represent specialist angler's can reply on their own behalf.

[Guest Peter Waller]

Hi Eelfisher, I was only away because of computer problems, nothing anyone said although Lees comments had taken the thread to a pretty low ebb. Basically I thought some of his comments were a load of purile ******** ! Much of my suspicion of those who wish to stand for the SAA is their apparent inability to accept that other folk might have an alternative opinion. Allen, especially, seems to have intense tunnel vision. I would ask both Lee & Allen, would either, or both of you, be able to promote, at the highest level, an SAA policy that you, personally, don't approve of? In my opinion, in Allens case, I personally doubt it.

Anyway, since you asked so nicely, honestly, here are my main worries.

The four rod rule is totally wrong where people are unable to use effective bite indication. It is not suitable for angling from boats. I think, as I have said before, that its use should be down to a fisheries management, such as with the close season. Used for pike and eels, fishing from a boat, it is bad news.

It worries me that 'carp techniques' are applied to pike. I feel certain that the relience on alarms and self-hooking that many carpers use is unsuited to the Broads and pike fishing in general. We have heavy boat traffic, for one thing, anattended rods can result in lines being picked up by boats and lost, later to be picked up by feeding fish and probably resulting in deep hooking. I am also concerned at the practice of ripping lures through shallow waters and weed beds by lure fishing pikers. I've done it myself, foul hooked and injured fish soon put a stop to that. I am also worried about pike matches. The pike is not suited as a match species. Apart fom anything else the angling, fish handling ability of many pikers, at the few matches I attended, was appalling. That & the fact that pike do not take kindly to being sacked up. I am also worried at the handling of big pike. Research is needed. To many thirty pound pike are never seen again. Is it that their internal organs can not take the strain of the fish being out of the water for long? I am also concerned at current match practices where such tiny fish are targeted. Fish so small that they have no chance to breed. Reserch is needed to see if this is why major match rivers have died in the past. I am also concerned that it is legal to remove two fish, so long as they reach a minimum length. In this day and age it should be an offence to remove a fish over a certain length. Will that do?

[Guest Pete B]

Peter,

As one of those sinning, devil worshiping,(carp) anglers that uses one to four rods, dependent on circumstances, waters I am fishing and nearby anglers I hope that your extremely bigoted and slanted views help you in your persuit of excellence

May you achieve what you want.. but as a spokesperson for angling.. forget it.. you have no idea whatsoever......

I know I'll get a pasting for this but just my opinion...

Happy Fishing

[Guest Peter Waller]

Originally posted by Pete B:

Peter,

As one of those sinning, devil worshiping,(carp) anglers that uses one to four rods, dependent on circumstances, waters I am fishing and nearby anglers I hope that your extremely bigoted and slanted views help you in your persuit of excellence

May you achieve what you want.. but as a spokesperson for angling.. forget it.. you have no idea whatsoever......

I know I'll get a pasting for this but just my opinion...

Happy Fishing

 

Peter, your comments show why it is not a good idea to post personal opinions. However, re-read what I had to say. I did not, in anyway, abuse carp anglers who use four rods. I said that the rule was unsuited in certain circumstances and I stand by that. I repeat what I have said before, whats good for carp anglers may NOT be good for other species. Allowing something for one species does not mean it should be allowed for others. If the owner of a lake wishes to allow four or even ten rods on his water, no problem. Allowing four rods on public waters where, effectively, there is no control, using unsuitable methods, e.g. unwatched floats whilst livebaiting in the summer for pike, is unfair on the fish and unfair on other pikers. Your reply has highlighted the problem. Would you, as a carp angler, be able to speak, via the SAA, on behalf of pikers, at Ministerial level? No, I don't suppose you could. Nor could I, as a piker, speak on behalf of carpers. This is exactly the problem I have with Allen as a prospective SAA committee member.

[Guest 'eelfisher']

Dear Pete

Thanks for the reply as such..Your concerns over all aspects of pike fishing is shared by most careing Pike anglers and the PAC along with other concerned organisations, one of which will be the SAA, should work towards these issues being resolved in time, if this is not being addressed as we speak.

I am going to assume that the Allen you refere to is Alan Pearce. Given that that is so, your reply appears to say that you only feel that Alan is not suitable to represent anglers in the SAA.

I would suggest, that if this is the case, that the worries over the proposed committee set-up have been greatly distorted....I for one was thinking that there were others as well that were of concern to 'those out there'. I am pleased that we have established this fact, if indeed this is the case.

I believe that Alan and Lee will answer for themselves the question you ask.

I would like to say though that I have sat in SACG meetings with both Alan and Lee and have been in debate with both on certain issues. Some that we agree on and others where they thought I was talking rubbish (Quite often) but I have always been able to debate fully and have been listened to by the others in attendance on the day. Some of the people whom others have problems with, have come to my defence and gotton me out of a hole or two...some of them have sided with my case. None of them have done a moody and not accepted my position when they have ended up being out voted come the time for decisions to be made on certain issues.

There is to be a committee set up to carry the political fight forward on behalf of those who are represented within the SAA set-up. This structure is to be very diverse and there are to be many people in responsible positions who are going to be expected to support the majority decision of any debate that comes up. I hope that the structure will work in harmony. I will be there to represent the eel angling club that I am a member of....I know that there will be debates that go against my true feelings on certain subjects. No one agrees with me anyway!!!!

The one thing you can be sure of is that I will not tolerate any ego posturing or attitudes of 'power'...I am, if nothing else, well known for my desire to be heard. However, I have no desire to be 'known'.

I would welcome people like yourself attending meetings and being involved in the debates and movement forward on behalf of specialist anglers. My desire for politics is governed by my understanding that is vital for us to be organised to some level in being able to take forward our worries and concerns to higher offices.

As I have said before, the voting section in a democracy is the key to eventually getting things right, personell right and attitudes right.

I use three rods regularly....the E.A. wanted me to use three rods because it was they that suggested we be given the opportunity to use four.

I fish rivers for pike....I use one rod for 99% of my fishing. This is because I know that if I am in the right swim on a river that I can catch more Pike from it than any lake swim. (I have taken 34 pike from one swim in a mornings fishing...that is what river pike fishing can be like.) Likewise when I am eel fishing I use three rods...I have been known to use four on certain waters. I have blanked all season using four rods every weekend I have fished the place. (40 sessions)

I carp fish in the winter with two rods and three rods. In the summer I have been known to only use one in certain swims.

I have taken two rods onto the river Dove in the winter...one for stick-floating for Grayling and chub during the day and the other for sitting down and legering over the area of river I have fed all day in the hope of a bigger Chub or the hoped for Barbel come the evening/night.

I have rowed all round lake Bala with two rods but found using the oars much easier....and just as productive.!!!

I have always been aware that the use of four rods was down to every fisheries management policy. You cannot legally use four rods on the Trent, Derwent or Dove. I fish one lake that allows four rods, one that allows three and two that only allow two. Surprisingly, the two rod water is the most productive...maybe, just maybe, because you can only fish two rods.

I have fished the four rod lake with only two rods because I once fished a swim on another lake where I fished three rods in a swim and lost the biggest eel I have ever hooked due to there being too many snags (lines) in the way for a sensible netting. Eel 1... Steve 0.......lesson learnt, and I still cringe now at my lack of foresight as to the state of play if I had ever received a take to any of the rods. (Mind you, they looked fabulous in the daylight...loads of room as well.)

I have to be honest and say that most of your concerns are solved by education....something that is frustrating when you are the educator and not the couldn't care less 'being educated' bunch out there...but we must continue to stand and keep trying to educate via all means and utilise the support of others in our quest.

Most of that which you have so kindly written about has nothing to do with the people who shall hold office and positions within the SAA as far as I can tell.

If there are others whom you feel are 'not up to it', then please come forward again....if not, then say so. That way we can all see the true picture.

Sorry for going on so long...I felt that you deserved an honest and well meant reply to your posting Pete.

And not an attack in sight...

Thanks for your post Pete.

Yours With Respect....Steve.

PS...I am off to bed now.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by 'eelfisher' (edited 21 April 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by 'eelfisher' (edited 21 April 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by 'eelfisher' (edited 21 April 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by 'eelfisher' (edited 21 April 2001).]

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Peter and Steve,

 

Steve first,

 

Dont ever tell me again that you cant write or say that no-one listens to you. Your reply to Peter Waller was one of the best I have read. You are a credit to your old and respected club and the political arena you debate in. Well said Steve.

 

Peter,

 

I feel now that you have gone as far as you can in answering my questions. I thank you for that and for your honesty.

 

In return Peter, I shall now myself try and answer some of your questions and concerns.

 

Firstly, I shall put aside your opinion that I have been talking purile whatever. I am not going to go down that road but respectfully hear your opinion of my views.

 

To begin with, I shall firstly state that I have only experience of fishing from boats in a game fishing capacity. Then as now, I only use one rod at a time obviously because of the method used. Fly fishing.

 

It does however seem to me, that the use of four rods from a boat especially if employed by a lone angler appears to be over the top. But as I say, I am certainly not best guy qualified to give an opinion. Obviously, you as an angler in that environment is, as are others who fish such places.

 

After reading your last posting Peter, I am pretty sure that the idea of you guys holding a meeting whereby these issues of concern can debated by anglers who fish in your environment is a great idea.

 

The code of conduct you spoke of is also a good idea if not a hard task to undertake. I sincerely wish you all well in your efforts.

 

The boat traffic is also a viable question. In years gone by I have holidayed on the Norfolk Broads and have myself wondered how on earth one fishes amid so many boats.

 

Now that it is clear to me anyway, that your concerns seem to be based around boat fishing and the Broards environment generally, I shall not comment further but surfice to say that I understand what you say.

 

Now on to the political stuff.

 

I cannot or will not, speak for Alan here. I shall only speak for myself and give you an honest opinion of how I see my political hopes and aspirations.

 

First and foremost I am the elected SACG/SAA rep for the BCC. I am also intent of becoming an individual member of the SAA as are many from our old and respected club.

 

Also, I have been proposed for a position in the SAA rivers group if it goes ahead.

I am not prepared to name that position because that would be wrong at this stage.

 

I will though, give you and others my perception of that role if I am elected.

 

Like all caring river anglers, I am greatly concerned for the rivers environment. Not just the species in it but the habitat of the rivers fauna and flora as well.

 

For example.

 

I am worried about the DETR waterways schemes. I do not agree that building canals to transport water from one river to another is a good practise. I believe that we should be finding better ways of conserving water not moving it.

 

I am also concerned about the slash and burn mentality we have all witnessed when the EA drainage department undertake their work.

Apart from destroying the beauty that makes a river, a bad enough reason in itself, how can we ever see the revival of rare species at the waters edge if we continue to destroy their environment every four or five years.

What we need is a Standard Practise to stop this. Chris Turnbull of NACA has some very good ideas in this area.

 

Eels are on the decline in this country and I like the eel groups are very concerned about this. The rivers group should take this problem on board and working under the umbrella of the SAA work towards addressing this.

 

Also on the fishing front, once again if I am elected, I will work towards the hopes and aspirations for ALL river anglers.

 

You posed the question whether I could promote any SAA policy that I did not agree with. Well Peter, if any SAA policy was formed it would come via debate either by consensus or a democratic vote. As such any policy agreed or voted on would have my utmost support. Whether I approved or not would be irrelevant. Politically I would represent democracy and NOT my personal opinions but that is what democracy is all about as you will know.

 

In the fullness of time if the SAA rivers group goes ahead and if I am elected to serve on it, there may come a time when you yourself Peter ask it for support. If that day ever arrives, my door will always be open. At the same time, it will stay open to those who may be opposed to the views you may hold.

 

What more can I say but just that.

 

Once again Peter,

[Guest Pete B]

Peter,

That is not how your first, or subsequent posts read... before you question my omprehension of this thread I suggest you have a recap yourself.. You do tend to come across as a carp angler hating, rather sad individual who is too set in his ways to accept anothers opinion (whether right or wrong)

As an aside ., I fish mostly in what was the Southern Water Authority region.. whose limit on rods used was governed by the number of licences you held!!! The SACG limited me to 4!! (I fully support them & now the SAA by the way)

Happy Fishing (however many rods you use)

[Guest Peter Waller]

Pete B, I don't hate carp anglers, their antics keep me smiling! Joking aside Pete, what I don't like about carp anglers is the minority who use 'carp' angling attitudes and methods for species that perhaps are unsuited to such methods. I always remeber watching two well known local carpers swop their boilies for dead baits. I watched with interest as they cast out, set their rods up on their buzzer bars and then proceeded to set up their bivvies, relying on buzzers for bite indication. Due to lack of attention, whilst they set up camp, the pike that took their bait was deeply hooked, much to their obvious surprise. The poor fish then went through the obligatory photo-shoot. The result, a dead fish. That is not fiction to enhance my arguement. I'll say it again, what is good for carp is not always good for other species. Pete, I'm not sad, unless I see the unnescessery killing of any fish, then I am very sad. Perhaps my sense of humour is not everybodies cup of tea. I do take my angling very seriously indeed. It was, I think, Nev Fickling that commented that the carp anglers made poor pikers due to the culture shock of having to adapt to a different attitude, not a straight quote but that, as I read it, was the guist of his comments. Basically I think he is right. Conversly I doubt I could adapt to the waiting game type of angling that appears to be carp angling. Angling is all things to all men. Carp angling, at the top end is a skilled sport that deserves admiration. At, as Budgie calls it, the crap yob end, it is pretty sad. And before you say it, the same applies to pike angling. As for me being set in my ways, ha, thats a joke! I'll try anything atleast once when it comes to piking, its the only way to keep catching. Take care, enjoy your angling, I enjoy mine. Peter.

[Guest Ian Cresswell]

Hi,

 

I agree with a lot of what is being said here however (there's always one of those eh? )I have a few observations to share.

 

I enjoy all of the kinds of fishing that I've tried ... techniques vary enormously from species to species let alone from style to style.

 

What Budgie referred to as the 'crap yob' isn't just down to the carp fishing fraternity. It's a plague that's present in all kinds of fishing. Perhaps the carp based idiots are more numerous and visible than other non-carp anglers merely because carp anglers are more numerous and visible.

 

Idiots are always much more visible than non-idiots anyway.

 

FWIW & IMO each new style that I'm shown gives me more insight into my sport. Having such diversity can really help to advance our sport ... polarised standpoints IMO do not. Techniques can and do cross style/species boundaries.

 

The "crap yob" (homocrappius anglercyprinidae) is merely a subspecies of the minority group "bleedin' idiot with a rod"(homocrappius angleridae).

 

It's rumoured that the wider and much more prevalent "completely inconsiderate idiot" (homocrappius crappius) is distantly related to the human race (homo sapiens).

 

It is also worth noting that crappinidae are known for their propensity to blindly criticise others for no reason, to be immune to comment or criticism themselves and to do bad things at inappropriate times. Fortunately they are not capable of adapting and are therefore firmly seated at the bottom of the food chain.

 

They are however spreading and appear to be able to use the Internet.

 

OK jet lagged silliness over ...

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[Guest Alan Roe]

Ian congratulations on a wonderfully entertaining post!!