Pike Patrol Routes

[Leon Roskilly]

Another question.

 

Where do you place your deadbait?

 

 

It's unlikely that you'll put it right on a pike's nose, or close by where a pike is likely to swim.

 

Much more importantly is to work out where the scent from your bait is going to drift too.

 

Cast it into an area of dead, unmoving water, however tempting that might be regarding pike location, and rather than creating a scent trail, the scent of your bait will stay very localised, only being picked up if a pike happens to pass right by.

 

But put your bait in a position where the scent is likely to be drifted into a wide area containing pike, then even though the spot you are fishing is in itself unattractive to pike, you could find yourself getting take after take.

 

Similarly a bait positioned in the middle of an area containing pike will only be scenting the half of that area 'downstream' of the bait.

 

Much better to put it 'upstream' of the entire pike holding area, so that the whole area gets covered by the scent trail. (Even on a lake, there is always a flow - maybe caused by underground spring(s) feeding the lake, or by undertow caused by the surface wind. Remember the undertow is moving in the opposite direction to the surface water).

 

 

So, having worked out where the pike are likely to be, the next part of the puzzle is working out where to place your bait relative to that.

 

It can be very annoying to be occupying a swim that you believe contains the pike, whereas the angler 'upstream' of you is doing all the catching, although their swim is devoid of pike attracting features!

 

Tight Lines - leon

[The Flying Tench]

Thanks, Leon, 2 really interesting posts. Out of interest, do you find it worthwhile injecting a deadbait with sardine oil etc to get a greater trail of flavour, or do you reckon the deadbait gives off enough flavour of it's own?

 

It occurs to me the points in the last post about where the scent is going applies to much bait fishing, not just pike, but I've never heard it mentioned before.

 

One small point. Is it necessarily true that the undertow is going the opposite direction to the surface? Might all the water just be going round and round the lake, with the lower layers going slower?

[Leon Roskilly]

I reckon that with millions of years of evolution (or in fact non-evolution, they have successfully been the same for millions of years!), pike are capable of picking up the unadorned scent of a dead fish.

 

That's not to say that I haven't experimented with various additives myself, or met many anglers who swear by them, it's just that I seem to do as well with them as without them, and I'm a bit mean with spending money that I don't need to.

 

That's why I tend to use small deadbaits, like sprats.

 

(It's impressive to see the area of wind-chopped water that the oil from a cast sprat can calm, or to see an area of calmness appear just before the bite alarm goes off! But remember oil just scents the surface water, pike are usually down deep. It's a non-bouyant scent trail you want, one that creeps along the ridges and gullies near the bottom - most flavourings are oil-based and so are pretty useless at doing that)

 

 

A scent trail just says 'dead fish' and gives no indication as to the size of the dead fish.

 

Having arrived at it's source, even the biggest pike may be disappointed that the meal isn't bigger, but it's going to take it anyway.

 

And as well as getting many more sprats to the lb/£ than (say)mackerel, it's easier to ensure that the hook arrangement ensures a hookup, no matter how the pike picks up the bait.

 

I'd only use a heavier bait when casting into wind (you can use various set ups to drift a bait a long way down/across wind, releasing the bait to sink when at the intended position).

 

What I will do is to 'refresh' a bait now and again by piercing it, to get more scent out, and occasionally inch it along the bottom a little, again releasing more scent, and sometimes the activity attracts attention. (Anyway, it's something to do when I'm bored!).

 

If the undertow is caused by wind, it's always going in the opposite direction to the surface water.

 

That's why there is an undertow.

 

As the wind drives the surface water to one end of the lake, water at depth must return back to the other end to compensate (otherwise all the water would end up at one end!)

 

If the undertow is driven by a stream entering and leaving the lake (or a spring entering the lake and water exiting at the lower end of the lake), in the absence of wind both surface and lower water will be moving in the same direction.

 

That's the reason why fish have a reputation for 'following the wind' on some lakes, but not others. (If a flow caused by water entering the lake is having a stronger effect than a return of surface water moved by wind, or the undertow is modified by the position of entering streams or hidden springs, then the fish will probably be moving in the direction of the modified flow, not necessarily swimming against the undertow in the direction the wind is going).

 

(As well as pikers setting up scent trails, anyone tossing groundbait into a lake also needs to understand the underwater flow, and its causes, to ensure that it doesn't end up feeding fish several yards away from the fishing area).

 

Once again, knowing what's happening, and why, will give you that edge that the guy who turns up, plonks down and casts into the usual swim won't have, and won't have a clue why either!

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 05. November 2004, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[The Flying Tench]

Extremely interesting, but it brings another thought to mind. You clearly rate the power of smell to bring a pike from a reasonable distance. This raises the question of groundbaiting a number of swims with bits of sprat. I'd assumed this was only worthwhile if you did it with a lot of chopped fish over several days, but if the smell of one sprat can attract it must be worth baiting up a few swims when you first arrive with a few chopped up sprats, on the basis that the pike they attract are reasonably likely to stay around?

 

On the matter of temperature, which you mentioned earlier, I assume it is vital to check this in the winter and maybe in the spring when the margins are warming up, but it's not really an issue in June to October?

[Leon Roskilly]

Hi John,

 

I'll often throw out a few scraps into the swim I'm fishing, but as far as other swims go I believe that if a pike has no other reason for being there, they may come into a swim to collect the dead fish, then move on.

 

Especially, when a fish has had a meal, they are then likely to move to warmer (maybe shallower, sun kissed) water to speed digestion.

 

Consistent pre-baiting over a period means that pike/eels are likely to form the habit of visiting that area to see if there is a meal available, but remember they may not hang around there if they have no reason to.

 

And if the swim is being cleared by the pike at night, you may never find pike there when fishing during the day.

 

One reason that pike anglers find pre-baiting such a patchy experience.

 

You have to time your visit to the pre-baited area with the pikes' schedule!

 

Regarding temperature, yes it's irrevlevant once the warm weather comes.

 

Then the pike's metabolism is comfortable wherever it is, and anyway thermal mixing of the water layers during the long days means that there is unlikely to be a significant variation in water temperature at any one place.

 

Tight Lines - leon

[Steve Burke]

I'd vote this as one of the most informative topics we've had for some time! I especially like Leon's point about thinking out the reasons why you catch or you don't. There's no doubt in my mind that thinking anglers catch many more fish - and have more fun!

 

There's much sound advice here and certainly little I can add. However, there are a few points I'd make.

 

Firstly, if you're fishing a spoon don't let it sink on a slack line as is commonly recommended. Sure, you'll lose a bit of distance, but not as much as many think. More importantly, you won't be fishing the lure properly all the way down - which is an even greater distance! I get so many takes on the drop, and without the reel engaged you won't connect with very many at all.

 

This brings me onto the second point. Patrolling pike are often well above the bottom, especially on deeper venues. You've therefore got to think in 3 dimensions. On shallow waters it doesn't make much difference. But it certainly does on deeper ones like trout reservoirs.

 

Thirdly, undertow is a very complicated issue. For instance, on small featureless circular waters especially, there isn't always a conventional undertow. In many cases at

such venues there is indeed a circular flow as well.

 

By the way, these waters don't often hold pike but many contain perch. I've found that perch don't seem to like strong undertows. Instead they're often where the undertow peters out. Rather like being "just off the pace" in a river perhaps?

 

Fourthly, I agree that lure fishing is an excellent way to both explore a new water and find feeeding pike. Having found a productive area you can then fish it more slowly with baits, either on the same day or a subsequent one. You can also do the same when bait fishing as well of course.

 

Fifthly John, there are days that the small pike are tight to marginal cover. This is often when the big girls are on the prowl and the jacks don't want to be their next meal! Pike change their colouration as they grow, replacing stripes with spots that are better camouflage in open water. Here they rely not just on ambush tactics but stalking and superior speed.

 

Having said that, I've yet to fish a water where the margins haven't been a productive area for the big pike. In my experience, many pike anglers rely too much on long range fishing. Sure fish at long range when you need to, but don't ever neglect the margins.

 

Finally, don't just cast a deadbait in a good spot and leave it there. Doing so it'll take you ages to find the most productive spots!

 

Additionally, time after time recasting to the exact same spot can immediately result in a take. The same goes for regularly moving a bait a few feet. I nearly always fish at least one rod like this to find out what the fish want on the day.

 

A classic example of this occured just this week. As the light faded at the end of the session I hadn't moved the baits for a while due to packing all but the rods away. I then began to slowly wind the first rod in. Bang! I failed to connect, but 30 seconds later the line started to trickle out. This time I got the fish, the best of the day. Of course I might have caught her anyway, but this has happened so many times over the years that I doubt it.

[The Flying Tench]

Thanks, both of you.

 

Another query for Leon. Your approach is more scientifically based than that of many anglers, but I suspect much of what you are saying at least doesn't contradict the conventional wisdom. But there is an exception. You seem to be saying you nearly always use sprats, 'cos it doesn't make a lot of difference and they're cheaper! I see the logic, but a lot of deadbait enthusiasts would say there is a 'bait for the day'. Your or anyone else's comments on this would be welcome.

[Leon Roskilly]

I don't always use sprats for deadbait, just most of the time, especially when I'm fishing sink and draw.

 

(For sink and draw, having set the hooks into the flank of the sprat, I pass the swivel at the end of the wire trace through the gills, from the back, and out of the mouth (I use a pair of small long nosed pliers to do this) before clipping it to the mainline. A small elastic band around the sprat, helps to keep it in place)

 

I'm also a fan of smelt and sardines (but not for sink and draw!), and sometimes self-caught mackerel and gar-fish (if I haven't eaten them all by the time the pike season comes around, as I seem to have done this year!)

 

I used to use eel-sections, but now that eels are in such deep trouble, no longer.

 

But I find that sprats do the job most of the time and when I'm fishing two rods, with one baited with something else, its just as likely that I'll catch on the sprat as any other bait.

 

IMO, a pike presented with an easy meal isn't going to turn up it's nose if it is at all hungry, whatever that meal may be.

 

(I'm deeply sceptical of claims that pike go off a bait that is overused on pressured waters. They aren't carp, and on many occasions now, I've had fish come off, even after minutes of being played, only to have the pike grab the bait again immediately, when I've re-presented it to them! I think it may be more of a case of misinterpretating what's happening. For instance, pike stop feeding because of falling pressure (say) and anglers convince themselves that their usual bait is blown, they switch to another bait as pressure rises and hey presto!)

 

And it's easier to set the hooks on a sprat so that if the pike has taken the bait, it has also taken the hooks.

 

(Like Steve I also make the top set of trebles sliding, so that if the top hook engages, the bottom fixed hook is drawn away from the back of the pike's throat to where the first hook has found a hold.

 

This also has the advantage that the second hook may reinforce the hold of the first hook in what must be soft flesh.

 

If it is the bottom (fixed) hook that has found a hold, the sliding hook can be removed from the pike's mouth by sliding it along the wire toward the swivel, allowing easier access to the remaining treble that has engaged.

 

But the main reason for doing this is so that any trace can be adjusted to the size of the bait to get the best position for hooking and for presentation.

 

When making up a trace, I'll pass the trace wire through the eye, then one turn around the shank, before pulling a piece of silicone tubing over the eye and ont the shank).

 

But it's important that the sprats are frozen when fresh and not too old, and those in packets from the angling shop are often a disappointment.

 

Instead I find out when my local fishmonger gets them in fresh (Tuesdays) and buy that day, freezing them as soon as I get home, using them within a couple of months of freezing at most (otherwise they get eaten by me!).

 

One interesting aspect is that pike seem to have no aesthetic sense at all with regards to bait presentation. A smelt cast and retrieved a couple of times or more, and slit on each cast to allow more juices to flow, bent double and a very sorry sight with it's stomach gone and now looking nothing like a fish, still gets taken readily!

 

As I mentioned before, I'll use a whole mackerel or herring when I want to put out a bait a long way, but when I don't want to use a lead that may pull it down into weed or silt.

 

I'll also use a large bait when I've rigged it to 'spin' in the flow of a current, as it is then the noise/vibration that draws in a pike, as much as smell.

 

(A three-way swivel is attached between a sliding float and a bottom weight with the baited trace attached to the swivel. I'll set another trace above the swivel to cope with the situation where the pike moving foward to engulf the bait also takes into its mouth the line above the swivel, or the baited trace gets tangled with the mainline. Without a trace above the swivel, you risk getting bitten off and leaving hooks in the fish).

 

Tight Lines - leon

 

[ 07. November 2004, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Leon Roskilly ]

[The Flying Tench]

Once again interesting stuff, and I'll certainly try sprats more often for static deadbaiting. But I'm a bit surprised on wobbling. I've got more experience of this than static deadbaiting, though I'm sure less than yourself, but in my experience of wobbling a bigger bait means bigger fish. I started with sprats, soon moved up to sardines which I found a bit soft, then tried smelt which were effective but I only got pike up to about 8 lbs, I then tried herring and I've had them up to 14lbs. Admittedly this is all based on a couple of hotspots on the Kennet, and it's been autumn mostly rather than real winter.

 

Wobbling has been successful on the Kennet but hopeless on gravel pits. Doubtless that's partly a confidence thing, as I never really believe I'm going to catch. I've met a couple of people who assure me that if you 'go round a lake' you'll pick up a few pike! The idea is that, on a lake with about 30 pegs, you spend about 5 minutes at each and bingo, you're bound to come across a pike somewhere. I do it for about 8 pegs and convince myself that, if it hasn't worked on them it won't on the others, and go and do something else!

 

After your advice, and a post by Peter W above on spinning, I think I'll spend more time thinking where to fish, particularly going round with a thermometer, and maybe my newly aquired depthometer - though whether I'll have time to map the lake as carefully as you suggest I'm not sure. Thanks, though, for setting my sights in a more interesting direction.

[Leon Roskilly]

John,

 

Yes you will probably get bigger fish with a bigger bait when wobbling.

 

Most predators have to instinctively balance the amount of energy they are likely to use in chasing prey, taking into account how many chases are unsuccesful, with the amount of energy they are likely to attain from a succesful chase.

 

In this calculation they also have to take into account subtle factors such as closing distance, cover, risk of injury etc.

 

So, in general, a predator is most likely to go after a prey that is around 10% of their bodyweight.

 

Too small, and it's not worth expending energy chasing, too large and it will probably get away anyway.

 

(Pike are fast 'pounce' predators, but are unable to sustain long chases, though they will chase bigger baits for longer in warm water, when their energy levels are higher).

 

So, when pike are in chasing mode, a 2lb herring is going to be a much more attractive proposition for a 20lb pike than a 2oz sprat, and they are likely to be drawn to the wobbled bait from some distance away.

 

Whereas a small pike will give it a miss, and vice versa, the small pike will go after the sprat.

 

However, when in scavenger mode (usually as the water becomes colder), a sprat wobbled right past the nose of a large pike is going to get taken, and a sprat will nail the smaller pike as well.

 

So, knowing where to present your baits also comes into the equation.

 

I've had a lot of gravel pit pike to wobbled baits

 

The thing to remember is not to fish them like a lure. Make a bit of noise with the bait, then leave it for a while to sink (or just float there), give it a few twitches then wait some more, then give it a good tug to get it back high in the water and make more noise, and let it sink again (maybe stopping altogether while you eat a sandwich).

 

Too many anglers throw the bait out, and retrieve it in a serious of sink and draws, then recast a couple of times, before moving on to the next swim.

 

That's fine for rivers, but you've got to move much more to the deadbaiting end of the sink and draw method, rather than the lure fishing end, for still waters, giving pike the time to decide to come and investigate what's going on over there!

 

See next post

 

Tight Lines - leon