Tropical problem

[bikenut]

Could anyone enlighten me please.

My stepson has a small (about 6 gallon) freshwater tropical tank, containing assorted barbs, one corydoras and a rapidly growing plecostomus. My worry is that the fish have always seemed to be struggling for breath. They show no other obvious symptoms, and don't seem to be particularly in distress. We have had problems with the filters clogging with decaying plant material and I added a second internal filter a while back, which resulted in both of them clogging in the outlet side and nearly causing a wipeout while we were away last week. Fortunately our friend who was feeding them noticed and changed some water. When I returned on saturday, I put the fish in a bucket of tank water, cleaned the sand which had turned black (in the tank water) then let it settle and syphoned out the muck. Refilled the tank using the bucketful of old tankwater that the fish were in, and fresh water with Aquasafe or similar. The fish were ecstatic, loved the clean tank and water and were breathing at a rate I considered normal. Its now 4 days on and 3 of the Pentazona barbs have snuffed it, and the others are fine, but breathing fast again. OK the deaths could have been from either damage caused by the near wipeout, or perhaps an ammonia or nitrate spike as a result of the drastic cleaning, but why the rapid breathing? The tank isn't overstocked, I added an external power filter at the weekend as extra precaution against the filtration problems and the water now is belting around and I'm sure they are getting the oxygen now that perhaps they lacked before. Could it simply be the temperature too warm. We have a glass thermometer, and it shows towards the top of the "green" zone, which I always assumed was OK. Could gill flukes or some other parasite cause the sympton, they dont seem to flick themseves any more than any other fishes. I'm stumped.

Thanks in advance, Bikenut

[NetFull]

Have you been using cleaning products polish etc near the tank?

 

I think it could possibly be the water temperature been to high, warmer water has a lower oxygen content hence the increased breathing rate. Pentazona barbs should be kept in water 23-26oC (73-79oF)

Decaying plant matter in a tank is not a good idea as it can foul the water, also are you overfeeding them (decaying food) both these can lower the oxygen content

It couldnt hurt to buy a test kit too for ammonia, nitrite, etc

[NetFull]

Taken from another site although for a different problem, still food for thought

 

quote:

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The fact that you mention that the barbs have suffered the worst confirms this to me as barbs are always the first fish in a community to suffer from low oxygen levels,

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[ 08. June 2005, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: NetFull ]

[Uncle Fester]

Thanks NetFull, will reply in my "alter ego" as I'm at home for a change. Wasn't aware that barbs suffered from low oxygen levels, although it certainly fits the symptoms. But with three filters pushing the water around, and now a low stocking ratio (a cherry barb has now gone also leaving 5 ruby barbs, 2 small golden barbs or Shuberti as I remember them, the plec and the cory),it's hard to imagine as the water is 2/3 new anyway. I guess the water is about 80oF by the thermometer, a little on the warm side, and allowing the fact that the thermometer might be pants, the water doesn't "feel" warmer than the thermometer suggests. They are all gulping fast, but they are not on the surface as lack of oxygen would suggest. The missus wanted me to put in new sand, and new plants, but I think what I did was less harmful than her suggestion. It was clear that urgent action was needed, and there was no way to get the water quality back from dead without some harsh action and risk. But I just can't understand the rapid breathing, the rest I can put down to the conditions. Perhaps I'll try cooling them gradually down to 75oF, but with the weather now on full blast, it might not stay there anyway.

Thanks for your reply,

Uncle Fester Bikenut

[NetFull]

Yes a strange one this. :confused:

Your right if it was a lack of oxygen or a ammonia/nitrite poisoning and many of the gill problems the symptoms are gasping near the surface.

Have you examined the lost fish for signs of parasites etc? dont forget inside gills

 

Hope you dont loose any more

 

Netfull

[UK-Fishing-Tackle.co.uk]

Water is quite warm at 80. Mines down at 74 and doesn't move much at all - fish are nice and happy.

 

Where do you live in the UK - I do some IT work for a water treatment company (domestic supplies) and it might be your in an area where Chloramine is added instead of Chlorine (which most of the tap-safe products won't touch or not as well). Your Nitrates could be high (some up at 50ppm when they should be below 15ppm for adding to a tank).

 

Do you have one of the curtain bubbler (diaphragm air pump type things fitted). I find it looks quite nice on my 4.5ft aquarium, and I think it must oxygenate the water a bit.

[Uncle Fester]

Hi Uk, I'm in Thames Valley, hardest water in the World. I must admit I haven't tested either tap water or tank water for Nitrate, must be the next step. I do have at my disposal some reverse osmosis water from work, but I'm reluctant to use it in case its got more poluted than the tap water. Don't have an air pump, but the water is circulated by 2 internal filters, and one external filter, which is now quite a lot for the size of tank.

[UK-Fishing-Tackle.co.uk]

Hmmm...I'll make two posts and cover the two points.

 

I fill my tank via a domestic water filter - plumbed in. The inline filter (IX250 from Pozzani - www.pozzani.co.uk) takes a bit of time at 2 litres per minute, but does remove heavy metals, chlorine, organic sediments etc. If you wanted a filter just for tank filling they do a little inline one in the Aquarium section of their site, but for an extra £15 it does improve your drinking water no end.

 

My filter doens't touch the scale forming minerals (i.e. the hardness) and living in Lincolnshire means my fish get very hard water, albeit chlorine/mineral free. My understanding is that this is virtually the ideal situation for tank filling and topping up.

 

Be careful with RO water - it is too pure for most fish tank setups and you need to add buffering products (effectively chalk!) to bring it back upto moderately hard water. RO water in fish tanks is used for things like Discus where the levels of hardness need to be exact (i.e. by buffering it up you can get it pretty precise).

[UK-Fishing-Tackle.co.uk]

Thames Valley Water Statistics

==============================

Thames Water adds Chloramine according the notes I have here. Chloramine is extremely stable in water unlike chlorine. A good activated carbon filter (for your tap water) combined with a specialised dechlorinating product is *probably* the safest way to go. Not sure wether a block carbon or Granular carbon cart is the best way to go but if you emai stevem@pozzani.co.uk (the technical chap) I am sure he will help you out (mention Ian sent you there).

 

Heres a quick copy and paste on Chloramine:

===========================================

"Chloramine is a more persistant chemical, and some water authorities use it because of its greater stability. If you know or suspect that the water authority in your area uses chloramine, check that your dechlorinator product removes it fully. Chloramine is a compound of chlorine and ammonia, which is more stable than chlorine alone. Traditional dechlorinators, based on sodium thiosulphate, will neutralise the chlorine part, but this releases the ammonia. With a large percentage water change, this could be dangerous or stressful for the fish, as the bio-filtration will need time to convert the ammonia. The solution is a product which deals with the chlorine part and also converts the ammonia into a non-toxic form.

 

Filtration through activated carbon will also remove chlorine and chloramine - if this method is used it should be done in a separate container for at least 24 hours, before the water is added to the tank."

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[Uncle Fester]

Thanks UK. I suspect the real problem is with some form of gill infestation. I will take advice from the local Aq shop, but I was thinking a doce of Myxazin might well be going the right way. Also a check on Nitrates would be sensible. I already have the additives to go with the R/O water, so a partial change with that would be good too.

I wonder if the Aquasafe neutralises Chloramine? And of course, if it does, what is the by-product?

Have lost all the other barbs now except the Rubys, and the Plec, and the Cory seems oblivious to it all, and happy as Larry.

Need to get them breathing properly before I can do anything else.

Thanks for all your help, I'll keep ya posted.

Unc F