The barbel handling code

[andy_youngs]

A certain Mr Walli s captured over 60 barbel at the Royalty fishery in September 1933 does that help a bit ?

He certainly didn't have any problems with access!!

No, that doesn't really help. I asked for the barbel stocking history of the Hampshire Avon to be made public (which I'm sure has been largely subsidised by the taxpayer). I could always make a freedom of information request you know .... Never heard of Mr Walli.

[andy_youngs]

I have found this link though :

 

http://www.southernfisheries.com/homethefi...altybarbel.html

 

And this one :

 

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/protectedsites/sa...ucode=uk0013016

 

The situation on the Hampshire Avon seems similar to the situation on the Wensum, They're both SAC rivers. In the case of the Hampshire Avon, this designation was made in order to protect indigenous stocks of bullhead, brook lamprey, atlantic salmon, sea lamprey and desmoulins whorl snail. And as we all know, barbel actively predate on all these species with the exception of atlantic salmon. Mostly, salmon are too big to be devoured by barbel. I understand that the barbel are very partial to eating the salmon eggs and the fry though.

 

Both rivers have been artificially stocked with non-native barbel. And then the barbel fishermen on both rivers have gone to extraordinary lengths to try and close "their" rivers down to canoe access.

 

And both rivers have recently received a visit from 'conservationist and Angling Trust Ambassador', Mr Hugh Miles.

 

Finally, my belief is that not only does this unfortunate situation contravene implied requirements of the Habitats Directive, it also contradicts section 2, paragraph 8 if the following meeting minutes held between the AT and the EA on the 11 October 2011 :

 

"The Angling Trust also reported that the Agency was considering giving consent to stock barbel in what would otherwise be natural trout rivers. Barbel could prevent trout from re-establishing. Adrian Taylor said the Agency would only give consent to stock barbel in rivers within its natural range and considered the balance between species’ abundance when consenting additional stocking."

 

The minutes can be viewed here : http://www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?secti...amp;itemid=1018

 

Quite frankly, I can only conclude from this information that the Environment Agency are lying, and the Angling Trust are being neglegently naive and cynically manipulated.

Edited April 5, 2012 by andy_youngs

[lutra]

I have found this link though :

 

http://www.southernfisheries.com/homethefi...altybarbel.html

 

And this one :

 

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/protectedsites/sa...ucode=uk0013016

 

The situation on the Hampshire Avon seems similar to the situation on the Wensum, They're both SAC rivers. In the case of the Hampshire Avon, this designation was made in order to protect indigenous stocks of bullhead, brook lamprey, atlantic salmon, sea lamprey and desmoulins whorl snail. And as we all know, barbel actively predate on all these species with the exception of atlantic salmon. Mostly, salmon are too big to be devoured by barbel. I understand that the barbel are very partial to eating the salmon eggs and the fry though.

 

Both rivers have been artificially stocked with non-native barbel. And then the barbel fishermen on both rivers have gone to extraordinary lengths to try and close "their" rivers down to canoe access.

 

And both rivers have recently received a visit from 'conservationist and Angling Trust Ambassador', Mr Hugh Miles.

 

Finally, my belief is that not only does this unfortunate situation contravene implied requirements of the Habitats Directive, it also contradicts section 2, paragraph 8 if the following meeting minutes held between the AT and the EA on the 11 October 2011 :

 

"The Angling Trust also reported that the Agency was considering giving consent to stock barbel in what would otherwise be natural trout rivers. Barbel could prevent trout from re-establishing. Adrian Taylor said the Agency would only give consent to stock barbel in rivers within its natural range and considered the balance between species’ abundance when consenting additional stocking."

 

The minutes can be viewed here : http://www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?secti...amp;itemid=1018

 

Quite frankly, I can only conclude from this information that the Environment Agency are lying, and the Angling Trust are being neglegently naive and cynically manipulated.

Didn't we have this one before Andy? And i don't remember you coming up with any convincing evidence that barbel haven't been present in the Wensum since the last ice age. In any case i seem to also remember that the powers that be use a 150 year rule which means if they have been there for the last 150 years they are native.

 

ps. How long have we had plastic canoes?

Edited April 6, 2012 by lutra

[Fred Bonney]

Didn't we have this one before Andy? And i don't remember you coming up with any convincing evidence that barbel haven't been present in the Wensum since the last ice age. In any case i seem to also remember that the powers that be use a 150 year rule which means if they have been there for the last 150 years they are native.

 

ps. How long have we had plastic canoes?

 

It is thought that the Wensum had barbel from the post-glacial period, but ther's nobody still alive to confirm that!

 

I can only conclude that Andy is trying to flog his horse that has been put to rest by most many......many.....many times!!

Edited April 6, 2012 by Fred Bonney

[andy_youngs]

Didn't we have this one before Andy? And i don't remember you coming up with any convincing evidence that barbel haven't been present in the Wensum since the last ice age. In any case i seem to also remember that the powers that be use a 150 year rule which means if they have been there for the last 150 years they are native.

I don't understand Lutra. The link I posted about the Royalty Fishery asserts that barbel were first introduced into the Hampshire Avon in the early 1900's, and the first specimen was caught from the river in 1911. Under the Environment Agency's 150 year rule, they are therefore deemed non-native. Perhaps someone from the Environment Agency might like to confirm / deny?

 

And yes, we did have this one before. Unfortunately, this is what happens when people who live in glass houses start throwing stones. And so now, we're having it again. You may not recall me presenting any convincing evidence that barbel have been extinct in the Wensum since the end of the last ice age, but I don't recall you pointing out to anyone that the last ice age ended approximately 428,000 years ago, whilst just 12,000 years ago there was a land bridge between England and mainland Europe, and sea levels were some 120 metres lower than they are today.

 

And all the scientific evidence suggests that there have never been barbel in any of the westerly flowing rivers such as the Hampshire Avon.

 

And so far, nobody has offered any visibility over the stocking history of the Hampshire Avon. Why the secrecy?

 

ps. How long have we had plastic canoes?

Dunno, and you really seem to have no idea how little I care

Edited April 6, 2012 by andy_youngs

[andy_youngs]

Andy is trying to flog his horse that has been put to rest by most many......many.....many times!!

This horse has certainly been put to bed by you many, many times ...... and has then been resurrected by me many, many times ....

[Anderoo]

Andy, I reckon if they were happy to let you paddle through every bit of the wensum you wouldn't care less how native the barbel were. Some parts of the country are private. Best learn to live with it.

[Phone]

Fred Bonney,

 

Vagabond is still alive. Perhaps he'll step up on issues with regard to convincing evidence of barbel in the ice age?

 

The thread topic is of interest. While we don't have barbel - fish handling is always an interest since C&R is pretty much in it's infancy. I'll be looking forward to a copy making the States.

 

Phone

[andy_youngs]

Andy, I reckon if they were happy to let you paddle through every bit of the wensum you wouldn't care less how native the barbel were. Some parts of the country are private. Best learn to live with it.

Come off it mate, that ain't gonna happen. As long as there are anglers and landowners out there resisting canoe access, then there will be campaigners kicking against it.

 

And they ain't just going to roll over you know.

 

They want to see a formal moratorium placed on all further barbel introductions into rivers which have no natural record of a barbel presence within the last 150 years. I think this case is particularly acute on SAC rivers like the Wensum or the Hampshire Avon.

 

I agree that some parts of the country are private. But that doesn't extend to landowners applying an access ban on these public navigations.

 

In any event, the canoeists will just continue to paddle down these rivers anyway, and stick two fingers up at you. And the conflicting interests will continue to fester and grind out more friction and hard feelings. That's the reality. I know that for a fact, because I'm one of the protagonists. If you seriously want to try and stop the cycle, then please don't mess around with unrealistic suggestions like 'best learn to live with it'. I guarantee you, that ain't gonna happen.

 

If you really want to move this matter forward, take out a court injunction against someone.

Edited April 7, 2012 by andy_youngs

[Phone]

Andy,

 

How about a compromise? All canoes built in the ice age have free reign in the UK. Would that work? I'd even push Lutra "plastics". New canoes built in the manner and of the same materials as the ice age canoes could tag along. (Ohh, I guess the canoest would have to dress period too).

 

Phone