satisfactory level of complience

[barry luxton]

all very well organising legislation to protect the stock, how about this one then, being bounced to and fro as to who's responsible, this one has been going on for 3 years apparently. Whats gonna happen with regards to mcz's for example. A load of bl@@dy rubbish, legislation that ain't worth the paper it's written on.

 

http://www.fishnewseu.com/index.php?option...h&Itemid=54

 

Community councillor Ian McConchie told the BBC that: "Gangs of illegal cocklers are coming down and raiding the cockle beds in the bay and this has been going on for approximately three years.

Edited July 23, 2012 by barry luxton

[Bob Shotter]

all very well organising legislation to protect the stock, how about this one then, being bounced to and fro as to who's responsible, this one has been going on for 3 years apparently. Whats gonna happen with regards to mcz's for example. A load of bl@@dy rubbish, legislation that ain't worth the paper it's written on.

 

http://www.fishnewseu.com/index.php?option...h&Itemid=54

 

Community councillor Ian McConchie told the BBC that: "Gangs of illegal cocklers are coming down and raiding the cockle beds in the bay and this has been going on for approximately three years.

 

But according to you on another site these gangs like the bait digging mob are the figment of a sick imagination.

[barry luxton]

But according to you on another site these gangs like the bait digging mob are the figment of a sick imagination.

 

Get it right sport, you have invented eastern europeon, cash in hand geezers and tom cobbley digging bait, don't know if you managed to mention gangs from china as well, yet you offer up no evidence what so ever to support your assumptions that you dreamed up. There is a huge difference between fact and fiction and i know just what you are expert in sport, facts please. Provide us also all the figment imagination payments made by the tackle shops you have claimed, or get off the pot. Hot air guesstimates or facts? You even claimed you went to one area to 'check it out'. Well, whats it to be then officer?

[Bob Shotter]

Get it right sport, you have invented eastern europeon, cash in hand geezers and tom cobbley digging bait, don't know if you managed to mention gangs from china as well, yet you offer up no evidence what so ever to support your assumptions that you dreamed up. There is a huge difference between fact and fiction and i know just what you are expert in sport, facts please. Provide us also all the figment imagination payments made by the tackle shops you have claimed, or get off the pot. Hot air guesstimates or facts? You even claimed you went to one area to 'check it out'. Well, whats it to be then officer?

 

North Western IFCA issued 400 permits for cockle pickers 2011 season and on day one 650 turned up mostly eastern Europeans and that came from the lips of the NW IFCA CFO and it resulted in an emergency bye law being made.

 

Where exactly have I accused any shop of cash in hand dealings Mr Luxton? Fact is I haven’t however we know it goes on and using the shops as a means of regulation would go some way to stopping the known black market, got a better idea have you?

 

I visited one of three Solent commercial bait diggers that I have known well for many years. I did so to get the facts first hand and I will share that with information with those who I know will respect it.

[barry luxton]

you clearly have short memory loss,here you spouted off the other day about all the illegal activity. Rallying your troups, what you did on this occasion was to wind them up. Put up the evidence to back up your claim shotter. A bloke in your position having the authority to effect legislation needs evidence to make any new bylaw credible as opposed to having one drawn up on a whim because it looks good on paper. Show us this huge impact then.

 

Quote You: Why you might ask well there are gangs of pro diggers and crab gathers, most work for cash in hand and some of their effort is having a huge impact. Why not have your say on this subject on what is a very big challenge to the new IFCA authorities.

[Bob Shotter]

you clearly have short memory loss,here you spouted off the other day about all the illegal activity. Rallying your troups, what you did on this occasion was to wind them up. Put up the evidence to back up your claim shotter. A bloke in your position having the authority to effect legislation needs evidence to make any new bylaw credible as opposed to having one drawn up on a whim because it looks good on paper. Show us this huge impact then.

 

Quote You: Why you might ask well there are gangs of pro diggers and crab gathers, most work for cash in hand and some of their effort is having a huge impact. Why not have your say on this subject on what is a very big challenge to the new IFCA authorities.

 

You are the champion at taking things out of context so you are so let’s first go back to where this started. The Angling Trust announced that they had been invited to take part in talks with the Southern IFCA byelaw working group and to help with ‘Bait Digging’ now what these groups recommend to the committee will be the basis on which the new or reviewed byelaws will be drawn, so obviously very important and a feather in the cap of the Trust. Setting aside how that all happened as that has not been discussed Peter Jennings asked me what would I do about the ‘Bait Digging gangs working in Poole Harbour’ My first response was to ask was there a problem?

 

The thing is other areas are talking about this and there are some serious problems in both the north east and north west. There have also been some attempts to stop bait digging in Fareham Creek which is a part of the Solent so before I said anything I found out what I could. Then offered a suggestion to PJ which is all it was and you have jumped all over it like you do and I’m the one who is supposed to be dangerous.

 

There are problems in the bait digging world with legit diggers suffering as a result of the gangs that supply bait that is simply black market bait changing hands for cash no accounts, no tax paid and a huge impact on the stock where ever they work. (See Eastern IFCA Northumberland IFCA and North West IFCA) Bit like the black market trade in Bass that the Southern IFCA has so far failed to sort out.

 

You have rightly said this requires legislating so how would you do it and I suspect you might find that harder than slagging off folk who try.

[barry luxton]

No you are swerving again, you clearly stated that there is a problem with illegal digging, you offer up no evidence to that fact that you have stated, you told others on the recreational facebook page's that you will go to hampshire to access the serious situation as you have made out and report back, subsequently you confirm that you have met just one bait digger, with no reporting back as usual. I not slagging you off, i'm asking you to quantify your comments that there is a problem according to you, yet you cannot back it up. In addition you made the claim that tackle shops are 'in' on this conspiricy, offer the facts or get off the pot.

 

This quote from you on a facebook page clearly shows that at that time you don't know what the situation re baith digging, you also point out that you will make it your business to find out.

At the same time you claim that there is a serious issue with illegal bait diggers. What is it going to be, you are aware or not? How serious or not is it, evidence? Is it out of hand? how many people did you speak to, according to you it was one.

 

 

Quote you:

 

My suspicion is the bait digging issues are about Poole Harbour and more importantly Gosport, well I’m off to Gosport next week to find out what the situation is as I have no idea how things are at present. We all know how this has been argued about for a long time and if there is evidence that things are out of hand then guess what I will personally support action just as I did over the illegal Bass fishing in Langston, further more I will ask the members of RSA-UK to support it to. What I will oppose however will be any restriction on local anglers digging bait other than say for a daily quota but closed areas or the need for permits, which is not and never will be up for negotiation. Again that is a personal view and not official RSA-UK policy given the matter has never been aired.

Edited July 28, 2012 by barry luxton

[Bob Shotter]

No you are swerving again, you clearly stated that there is a problem with illegal digging, you offer up no evidence to that fact that you have stated, you told others on the recreational facebook page's that you will go to hampshire to access the serious situation as you have made out and report back, subsequently you confirm that you have met just one bait digger, with no reporting back as usual. I not slagging you off, i'm asking you to quantify your comments that there is a problem according to you, yet you cannot back it up. In addition you made the claim that tackle shops are 'in' on this conspiricy, offer the facts or get off the pot.

 

This quote from you on a facebook page clearly shows that at that time you don't know what the situation re baith digging, you also point out that you will make it your business to find out.

At the same time you claim that there is a serious issue with illegal bait diggers. What is it going to be, you are aware or not? How serious or not is it, evidence? Is it out of hand? how many people did you speak to, according to you it was one.

 

 

Quote you:

 

My suspicion is the bait digging issues are about Poole Harbour and more importantly Gosport, well I’m off to Gosport next week to find out what the situation is as I have no idea how things are at present. We all know how this has been argued about for a long time and if there is evidence that things are out of hand then guess what I will personally support action just as I did over the illegal Bass fishing in Langston, further more I will ask the members of RSA-UK to support it to. What I will oppose however will be any restriction on local anglers digging bait other than say for a daily quota but closed areas or the need for permits, which is not and never will be up for negotiation. Again that is a personal view and not official RSA-UK policy given the matter has never been aired.

 

 

There are known bait digging problems around the country Barry The EA are looking at it as are the IFCAS

 

In the North West the problem is mainly cockle collection but as the new emergency restrictions bite so the effort moves to bait collection at least that is what the CEO has told me personally. In Northumbria the deputy chair of their IFCA has said there are some serious problems both in impact on the stock but also some disputes resulting in violence and he has told me he is aware that they have the same problem in parts of the North Eastern IFCA area.

 

In the Southern District PJ has said there is a problem in Poole Harbour as for the Solent there a professional digger who supplies many shops in the south and south west and he has a dozen diggers to supply his customers. He told me gangs do show up on occasions and hammer an area for a few days which hits the stock in those areas. Fortunately as far as he is concerned the Solent is made up from a huge number of different grounds and the ones the gangs hit are probably going to affect the hobby anglers who dig their own bait more than it will affect him, however it is worrying because the gangs seem to be turning up more often and he pointed out that this bait must be going somewhere.

 

If you look on Peter’s page that is what I told them and one would expect this to be true given the interest in the debate and the fact that the trust has got involved. Sorting out how to regulate this is not going to be easy either issuing a licence is one option but policing that would be a nightmare as it is imposable to prevent Joe public free access to the resource. Making shops account where they get their bait may help if licencing is introduced but there will still be the question of regulating the effort on the stock. What is generally agreed is that the problem has arisen because anglers are believed to have shunned farmed bait to such an extent that most shops now refuse to stock something they can’t sell so it is obvious that some are using black bait to overcome that.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Bob Shotter

[barry luxton]

quote you: If you look on Peter’s page that is what I told them and one would expect this to be true given the interest in the debate and the fact that the trust has got involved. Sorting out how to regulate this is not going to be easy either issuing a licence is one option but policing that would be a nightmare as it is imposable to prevent Joe public free access to the resource. Making shops account where they get their bait may help if licencing is introduced but there will still be the question of regulating the effort on the stock. What is generally agreed is that the problem has arisen because anglers are believed to have shunned farmed bait to such an extent that most shops now refuse to stock something they can’t sell so it is obvious that some are using black bait to overcome that.

 

absolutly 100% assumption, guesstimate's, possibles, hearsay and pub talk. Absolutly no evidence, facts what so ever that this problem exists and you are advocating licences legislation on tackle shops etc etc. Yet when licences are mentioned re anglers you advocate the reason why not. You have spoken to one commercial bait digger and on his hearsay you have worked all this out for yourself.

[Bob Shotter]

quote you: If you look on Peter’s page that is what I told them and one would expect this to be true given the interest in the debate and the fact that the trust has got involved. Sorting out how to regulate this is not going to be easy either issuing a licence is one option but policing that would be a nightmare as it is imposable to prevent Joe public free access to the resource. Making shops account where they get their bait may help if licencing is introduced but there will still be the question of regulating the effort on the stock. What is generally agreed is that the problem has arisen because anglers are believed to have shunned farmed bait to such an extent that most shops now refuse to stock something they can’t sell so it is obvious that some are using black bait to overcome that.

 

absolutly 100% assumption, guesstimate's, possibles, hearsay and pub talk. Absolutly no evidence, facts what so ever that this problem exists and you are advocating licences legislation on tackle shops etc etc. Yet when licences are mentioned re anglers you advocate the reason why not. You have spoken to one commercial bait digger and on his hearsay you have worked all this out for yourself.

 

If you are not prepared to take the word of IFCA officers or IFCA members or the reports the IFCAs produce then I see little point in discussing anything with you Barry.

 

Before closing the door however I would say ‘one’ at what point have I suggested regulating sea anglers right to dig or collect their own bait, fact is I haven’t. ‘Two’ this was a question asking “what would I do” not what I ‘am going to do, if the Cornwall IFCA debate this with a view to regulation I will enter the debate with an open mind and vote on the evidence, fact is we are not about to do that so any view posted is my own personal view based on what I know at present.

 

If anyone is drawing assumptions here then dare I say that has to be you and yet again you avoid any question like what would you do? I turn it around simply to see if you have any good ideas of your own because believe it or not as stated above I have an open mind and please note I have no wish to try and pee higher than you or appear to be better than you or anyone else in any way.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Bob Shotter