Win a Weeks Carp Fishing In France.......

[Fishmania]

I am just in the process of purchasing a carp water in France for myself and my family. I would like comments on what would make the ideal carp water fron size of lake to size of fish together with what you would expect the venue to offer and at what price. This is a massive step for my family and we want to get it right. We want to know also what you dont want to see. All responces will be much appreciated. You can send an email direct to me at claim1st@aol.com. The best responce will be invited to fish the lake for one week free with a freind next year. This is a genuine offer as we are relying on you to help us get this right.

[Polly]

I am just in the process of purchasing a carp water in France for myself and my family. I would like comments on what would make the ideal carp water fron size of lake to size of fish together with what you would expect the venue to offer and at what price. This is a massive step for my family and we want to get it right. We want to know also what you dont want to see. All responces will be much appreciated. You can send an email direct to me at claim1st@aol.com. The best responce will be invited to fish the lake for one week free with a freind next year. This is a genuine offer as we are relying on you to help us get this right.

 

 

 

http://www.milinderuchec.co.uk/

 

Dave, who runs this place has got it just about right for me. I had a fantastic week there at the end of February and would recommend it to anyone. Have a look a what Dave's doing and copy as much as you can. He's FULLY booked throughout 2006 which I think says it all. Fantastic venue and spot on host.

I'm sure Dave would be more than helpful, so why not contact him for a chat.

Hope this Helps

[Fishmania]

 

http://www.milinderuchec.co.uk/

 

Dave, who runs this place has got it just about right for me. I had a fantastic week there at the end of February and would recommend it to anyone. Have a look a what Dave's doing and copy as much as you can. He's FULLY booked throughout 2006 which I think says it all. Fantastic venue and spot on host.

I'm sure Dave would be more than helpful, so why not contact him for a chat.

Hope this Helps

 

Thanks polly had a look at the site and have picked up some very good points.

[Dick Dastardly]

Fishmania,try getting of your arse and visiting the majority of English run venues over in France.This will give you a good idea of the competition.Its what we did!

 

You also need to decide on what sort of carp fishing you want to offer as there are several distinct types.Some guys are quite happy for a big fish or bust scenario,but youve got to have the big fish! Others want a runs water where they can bang out 20's and 30's in numbers with a bit of effort on their part.Others just want to go get slaughtered but still get a few 20's/30s without having to put any effort in!

 

All of these are equally profitable areas BUT you must make sure you get the right clients for the right water! Get the wrong mix and its all over.

 

As you no doubt realise (by the fact that you are asking these questions) different things are important to different people.Ive all ready mentioned the type of fishing but there is also the "admin" so to speak to take into account.Some anglers just want the lake and nothing else! some want everything laid on for them from food to bait to having their backsides wiped! Once again not a problem to gear your self for anything but also once again important to supply the right thing for the right people.

 

There are more English run French waters than ever before but I really believe there is still room for many more such is the demand.Some of the ones I visited were dire but still eeked a living. Others were very good.

 

A good bit of advice is to follow the sound buisness basic of trying to identify a niche in the market and then filling it.Also you really need to be running a buisness in a way that you are happy with, remember this will be more of a way of life than anything you have ever done before.No good trying to play "Mein host" if this isnt your style or running a "thanks for the money theres the lake" set up if you like talking fishing and being one of the lads! Honest waters do vary this much and Ive seen several who just havnt got the right temperment to pull it off.

 

Have you a water or area in mind yet? If so see whats happening near to you and like I said visit your potential rivals as a customer.If you dont fish or are not that experienced with the French scene get some one who is to go with you.No need to look at this as a "sneaky" thing as most people over there who are established realise there is still room for more and in general will help you where they can.You do however get a better insight to their set up if you dont initially mention it.Helps if they dont know you (if you are well known or your "experienced mate" if you take one.This really just gives you a more balanced veiw of their customer relations and treatment.

 

A lot is made of "stroppy" bailifs/owners when it comes to enforcing the necessary rules to safe guard your fishery.Its all about attitude and of course ensuring that people are fully aware of the score before they pay their money.Even on an initial check of their tackle/rigs its easy eniough to steer them away from potentially dangerous set ups /practices etc with some gentle instruction and giving them the right bits and pieces.Get them on your side,make them feel special,get them excited about the fishing,get them loving you and the place and like I said above all supply them what they want and you will be on a winner.

 

I learned from my time guiding that anglers are creatures of habit they have a good time,become your mate and they will come back time and time again.

 

Conversely no matter how good your water,facilities etc etc if it doesnt "click" with your customers then you wont see them (or there mates) again.

 

Good luck.If I can be of any more help just ask.

[Fishmania]

Fishmania,try getting of your arse and visiting the majority of English run venues over in France.This will give you a good idea of the competition.Its what we did!.....

 

Conversely no matter how good your water,facilities etc etc if it doesnt "click" with your customers then you wont see them (or there mates) again.

 

Good luck.If I can be of any more help just ask.

 

Thank you, yes i have fished in france but as you mentioned they do seem to vary alot, from both price to facilities. We sold our carp fishing tackle shop in December in preperation of the move so I am used to dealing and helping carpers on all aspects of watercraft and rigs. We have got a water in mind and our offer has been accepted. The water contains mirrors to 52 and commons to 46 with a few large sturgeon above 50. I know that some people will be looking for a runs water but I am hoping from this reasearch that a good head of large fish together with good facilities will be more what people are looking for.

 

The water that we are buying has never been opened to fish before but the current owners have spent thousands getting it ready, family changes have forced them to sell. I am not going into this as a quick way to make a buck but more of a life change for me and my family. I would like to send you the website of the water so that you can give me your opinion.

 

Thanks

 

Gary

[Newt]

Even though some of the replies may be a little rough, there is good advice in them.

[Dick Dastardly]

Yes by all means Gary.Sounds like a nice stock of fish.Supplying a big fish water that provided a challenge certainly worked for us.

 

I think there are still quite a few guys out there who have "moved on" from the easier "runs waters" and are looking for more of a challenge.

 

I also like the idea of a bit of variety (even though at Brognon Luke decided on a carp only policy). I think being able to have a chance of something a bit different like a Sturgeon or Cat adds a bit more to the anticipation.

 

You sound like you have the right out look.On a financial note I think its really important to have enough cash behind you to be able to live on for at least the first year without having to rely on your buisness.Some of the early years we were guiding it was very much on a shoe string the constant worry of cars/outboards breaking down and finding the dough to sort it was extremely stressfull!

 

Im sure they wouldnt mind you putting up a link to your web site on here?Might be worth posting the sort of package/services you intend to offer for people to comment on?

[Fishmania]

Yes by all means Gary.Sounds like a nice stock of fish.Supplying a big fish water that provided a challenge certainly worked for us.

 

I think there are still quite a few guys out there who have "moved on" from the easier "runs waters" and are looking for more of a challenge.

 

I also like the idea of a bit of variety (even though at Brognon Luke decided on a carp only policy). I think being able to have a chance of something a bit different like a Sturgeon or Cat adds a bit more to the anticipation.

 

You sound like you have the right out look.On a financial note I think its really important to have enough cash behind you to be able to live on for at least the first year without having to rely on your buisness.Some of the early years we were guiding it was very much on a shoe string the constant worry of cars/outboards breaking down and finding the dough to sort it was extremely stressfull!

 

Im sure they wouldnt mind you putting up a link to your web site on here?Might be worth posting the sort of package/services you intend to offer for people to comment on?

 

Thanks again Budgie

 

The site is www.etanglesgranges.co.uk it is a good looking water with depth of 3 - 6 feet. Our aim is to extend the stock ponds to make a runs water keeping the main lake the specimen water. We will introduce new fish to the stock ponds to average 30lb and i have purchased 5 x 60lb+ mirrors for the specimen giving the water a good head of 40lb+ fish about 23 in total. The specimen does also contain 150 fish above the 20lb mark, we will remove some of these and put them in the runs water. I have all the stocking papers and signed statements from the vendors to validate this. I have made it a condition of sale that we have one month from the completion date to net and check the existing stock.

 

We will be offering several packages from drive and survive to full family package for the whole family. We are errecting two 20m2 interconnected wood cabins that have already had planning permission. The current vendours have already installed the bases and water etc. Their are three other outbuildings that need to be renovated. We intend to turn one into a cafe / bar with a pool table and big screen tv where we will be offering satalite tv.

 

On the land their is an old campsite that has never been opened but all of the power supplies and water is connected, again we intend to open this but we will build a new lake to cater for these customers. We can have 20 tourers on at any one time, I have checked with the local mayor and he is happy for the proposals that we have laid out. He has also pointed out that the one to take the longest will be the permission to build a new lake. We are very excited about this move and we do have enough resorces behind us to last a couple of years even after we have completed all of the work.

 

Please take a look at the site and give me your honest opinion budgie.

 

Thanks once again.

 

Gary

[Dick Dastardly]

Had a look at the site.Hard without seeing a bit more of the lake etc but I will gladly give you my first impressions.

 

First of all the main thing that I noticed was the size of the lake.At around 4 acres this is quite (in fact very!) small. I think you have turned this round a bit "promoting wise by saying about the "no need for long casting" etc.I can assure you that myself and many of my friends who fish regularly in France have gone through the "where shall we go this time? dont mind but it would be nice to go some where where we can fish normally" stage.After a lot of time spent on the bigger waters Chanty/Orient/Cassien etc it is really nice to have a relaxed trip to a water where you can indeed just lob a bait out rather than all the rigmarole of boats/"double spooling"/wading etc etc!Makes for a more relaxed trip.(Whats the water clarity and potential stalking like?) once again its the case of offering something a bit different.

 

Less experienced guys will also obviously find such a small water a lot less intimidating so would certainly apeal to first time travellers.

 

Fishing wise guests hopefully wont end up with the "they were all down the other end" common on several of the big waters where you are confined to a booked peg.

 

Size wise (and facility/package which I will mention later) it would certainly apeal to groups of guys who are looking for a "social" type trip.

 

My only concern with the size is purely from a fishery management veiw.Brognon is over 40acres but the fishing is limited to only 4 people (on the main lake anyway) a week.The reason behind this isnt a lack of swims I assure you! it is purely to keep the fishing pressure down and therefore allow the carp to flourish and hopefully maintain the high standard.A lake of your size obviously isnt going to be able to run like this.(I would advise getting alternative management advice,can reccomend several people if needs be) but at face value (without testing etc etc) I would be quite sure that you would seriously need to consider mannaging on a some what commercial "put and take" basis.As you obviously realise the standard of the fishing is ultimately the acid test for many.A good tip if you go this way is to keep the "air" of natural about the place as best as you can! Sad fact is that many of the anglers that your type of water will apeal to want "commercial" style results but like to think of it as "natural" if you understand what I mean?

 

The fish stock.The size of fish you have these days wont apeal to the real big fish or bust man.You honestly need 60lb+ minimum these days.However what you do have will still be seen as monsters" by most newish anglers.As said before a bit of variety will also apeal.Do your Sturgeon come out regularly? Having a stock/growing on pond is also a good asset as long as the fish can actually "been grown" on in it! The stock pond at Brognon holds fish to over 50lb! two anglers are often on it whilst their other four mates are on the main lake (some come over in groups of 6 and take turns on the main lake) Try not only to breed some big fish but be selective on "good looking" ones as well.If your stock pond is really rocking you will have trouble getting rid of your surplus after a few years! I dont know what you know about it but its worth swatting up on fish rearing,water management techniques.Its a nice little side line.

 

Talking of side lines you mentioned a caravaning feild? if so take a look to see if you are near any of the major Dutch carravaner "migration routes"! As you may know come summer Frances roads are rammed with Dutch caravanners heading South! Mainly looking for basic overnight stops.They pull in arond 4,5 in the afternoon and are all gone by 8 the next morning! The site I used to live on on the Saone was always rammed and it doesnt cost a lot to set up or run.Most Dutch speak English well so no language barrier.We were smack on the N6 so it might not be the same where you are (Ive not got round to looking it up on a map yet.)

 

The facilities you show seem fine.As long as they are kept clean,have hot water then most anglers are easy to please.Wives/girlfriends tend to be a bit more fussy! especially those who havnt been camping yet alone fishing before!

 

Ive always found that most anglers prefer to use their own tackle if they have it (with the catfishing it was a bit different as it was a bit specialised so most used the tackle we provided) Carp guys will have all the gear.Most arnt so fussy about things like Bivvies,bedchairs,barrows,chairs etc so if you supply them its a lot of space saved in the car.This can in turn help you.

 

Even though you dont actually earn anything from it it is a very good policy to try and help your customers keep their travel expenses down.They will certainly add these expenses in when calculating the price of a visit to you.When I was with European Catfish Trips we had an account with Sea France that enabled us to offer cheaper ferry fares for our guests.Not the extra work it may initially seem as once you have the account you simply notify your guest of the account number,password etc once they have paid their deposit.The actual booking and paying of the ticket being left to them.As mentioned supplying the "non personel" bits of tackle saves room in the car this means that rather than two cars a group of four can get often get away with the one saving them money and making paying your charges easier.

 

On the subject of travel this can be one of the major "put offs" for many potential customer.A good "travel directions/reccomendations" package sent to them will definately help.On the same subject once they have paid their deposit send them a well put together "information sheet" on the venue,the water,tactics etc etc.A little bit more work but it makes the customer feel happy and stops countless " what size leads" "what size hooks" type of phone calls and emails.If you want I will send you a copy of the letter I used to send our customers.

One last thing on travel.When traveling down to you,even though it is only a relatively short journey,for many it will be the longest car journey they have made.Take into account that many may have also had a good drive in the UK to get to a port,so they could have had a very long day! Experience has shown me that when "Anglers" arrive they are normally on a bit of an adrenaline high despite the journey! They do seem to come down to earth with a big bump the next day and are normally knackered! Accompanying wives/girlfriends are normally more "tetchy" when they arrive,**** off with sat in a car for so long!

The better ie smoother,more welcoming,easier you make that arrival for them the better.A bit extra work but it will pay you back over the comming week and with return bookings.Little things like showing them to the lake,the accomodation or even the bivvies if you are supplying being ready are paramount.Even "little things" like making sure there is some fresh bread,milk a cold beer etc waiting for them goes down well.It really is like being more in the hotel game than fishing!

 

Reading your rules I would like to make the following observations.Once again due to the size of your water I would seriously consider the quantity and quality of bait that goes in.This will greatly affect both the quality of the fishing and the health/growth of the fish.If you decide to bring in bait restrictions the easiest way is to only allow bait supplied by your self.Dont worry the type of angler I envisage fishing your water will be easily persuaded that this is a good thing.Get a trade account with a bait manufacturer (I can supply contacts if you wish) you can then ensure that you are selling the bait at a cheaper rate than the angler could buy it for at home.Sell it to them by the fact that its cheaper,they dont have to bring it with them,and its of course what all the fish are comming out on! Cover your time and expenses obviously but the main reason is to have "control" over whats going in.

 

Tackle wise I think the best bet is to let anglers use whatever rig they want but check tactfully to ensure that they are safe.Rather than worrying about things like leadcore,barbed/barbless hooks my main concern would be the use of "standard French gear" ie long range 3lb+TC rods coupled with heavy braids.Most will not even own yet alone take into account the need for lighter tackle on a smaller close range water.I love braid and use it all the time but learned the hard way that combined with a heavy rod and lack of experience terrible damage can be done.Thats why the World Record Carp is called Scar! Got to cater for the idiot factor Im afraid.Also be aware that for many the fish they catch will be considerably bigger than anything theyve caught before.Good to initially keep a close eye.

 

Well Ive waffled on enough for now I hope my comments wether you agree or not have at least given you some food for thought.

 

Last thing is my initial impression of your water is that it would make an ideal " Introduction to big carp fishing" venue.You could try specifically targetting anglers regardless of exprerience who want to give the "French thing" a try for the first time.More of an angling course rather than a fishing trip maybe? certainly a gap in the market for it.More effort admitedly but once again supplying some thing different is the key.

[Fishmania]

Had a look at the site.Hard without seeing a bit more of the lake etc but I will gladly give you my first impressions.

 

....

 

Well Ive waffled on enough for now I hope my comments wether you agree or not have at least given you some food for thought.

 

Last thing is my initial impression of your water is that it would make an ideal " Introduction to big carp fishing" venue.You could try specifically targetting anglers regardless of exprerience who want to give the "French thing" a try for the first time.More of an angling course rather than a fishing trip maybe? certainly a gap in the market for it.More effort admitedly but once again supplying some thing different is the key.

 

Budgie once again you have made several good points, the lake size was one of my first concerns, but after we spoke to the local mayor he has informed us that we can extend this to just over six acres as the application made when it was extended before was to increase the size to this.

 

I have walked round the lake several times over the last few months as we have been going back and forth to sort things out, I can tell you that the stalking potential is fantastic, a few hit and hold swims, but also quite alot of hit and get them into open water.

 

The website of the lake was produced by the current vendours and i will indeed take all your suggestions and add them to the new site when we have it made. I also like the idea of bait restrictions and again we will be introducing this. The things like welcome packs etc is something that i hadn't thought about but again i will be doing this.

 

I believe that you are right in us aiming at new and family market as more and more wifes / girlfreinds are wanting to make the trip as well. We are wanting people that come to E