Guernsey Consulting on Bag Limits for Anglers

[Sharkbyte]

If any members are considering voting for the proposal they need their heads read!

 

This must rank as possibly the most vengeful piece of proposed legislation to come from the commercial camp yet. Ask yourselves why, despite a 3000 strong petition and numerous letters, the goings on at the Boue Blondel are set to continue until stocks have been exhausted without mention of a public consultation?

 

Channel Islanders are traditionally fiercely territorial, rightly so in many ways, the UK could do worse than to take a leaf out of their book on many issues. However do not let the 'them and us' inference contained within the proposal cloud your judgement quite yet! As has been said previously, bag limits are just part of a strategy to protect fish stocks from over exploitation, yet there are no indications contained within the document to suggest any measures to curb commercial greed will be implemented either now or later. It simply represents an amateurish attempt to divert both RSA attention and resources away from the real issues. If you have initially fallen for it, don't be embarrassed many have succumbed to the talents of a brazen street conjurer.

 

Toerag, while I appreciate reading your posts concerning Island fishing issues I cannot for the life of me reconcile your views on aspects of this proposal against some off your previously posted catch statistics and future plans.

 

 

I'd guess on 30m or thereabouts. If you wind them up slowly then you shouldn't have a problem because they don't seem as affected as pollack and ling which tend to inflate badly. Either way, cod is a good eating fish so you shouldn't feel guilty as long as you can find it a good home. As for me, I get annoyed when having to give a couple of boxes of pollack away for potbait when I go wrecking, so I'm in the process of licensing my boat to allow me to sell my fish.

Pfft, what a small catch! My mate and I had 432lb of pollack (gutted) earlier this year, about 75 fish. We started fishing at 10am, left the mark at 1:30pm and we'd stopped fishing twice during that time to gut the fish. We only stopped because we ran out of bait and we were knackered!

 

Our wrecking trip was pretty good, 336lb of pollack between 2 of us, 4 between 15 & 17lb.

 

 

 

 

 

Strangely enough I only read of the consultation the day I returned from a highly successful Alderney break myself. I will post a report soon enough as a separate thread.

[FishingGuernsey]

Thanks for that Andy. I have done the same kind of "back of a fag packet" calculations as Toerag, and come to similar conclusions, but i guess it will depend on what is actually retained as you say.

 

How are the local fisheries guys to know for sure though? even if most turbot are returned it would appear that UK charters have at least the potential to effect local stocks? ( given the recorded UK commercial catch from the entire English Channel is about 100 tonnes, perhaps even a wider effect, at least for Turbot anyway?) .

 

If they did implement it, could they enforce it effectively do you think?

 

If it was implemented would the UK charters reduce the number of visits to Guernsey and hurt local trade?

 

The UK charters do have the potential to make a difference to the stock but they don't. That's the whole problem that I and they have.

 

 

 

I don't think they stand a chance of enforcing it. They can't even respond to a call that theres a French trawler illegally working in our waters. Tried to call them yesterday and the answerphone was on saying no-one was in til tomorrow...

 

 

 

I think there is the potential to damage trade and there are a lot of businesses which rely on them, maybe 30 plus businesses in Alderney would go belly up. The guys who pay big money for these trips want to be able to live the dream and it isnt the same dream if they aren't allowed to keep that third fish. I know there is the conservation thing to think about but it is the dream of the anglers.

 

 

 

What do others think, those on here who have done those trips, would it affect your decisions? Would anyone else you wnt with decide against it in the future?

[Jaffa]

Andy,

 

If your right and they can't do the enforcement of bag limits then its hard to see the sense in introducing a new regulation fullstop. Are you right though? You give the example of a French trawler fishing in Guernsey waters and their failure to answer your call.

 

Sorting out that problem will surely require a 24/7 telephone presence, a boat, and either paid staff or RNLI type volunteers to go out and check it out? Not cheap or easy.

 

Would the same be true of enforcing bag limits on the charters? Do they come into a Gurnsey port every night?

 

On the issue of what the charters are or are not killing; the potential that they can effect some stocks as much or more than than the commercials is clearly there yet those charged with managing the fishery have no information on their catches? That seems a bad idea to me anyway....

[chappers]

With regards to enforcement whilst you do obviously have to have patrols, all that is necessary ist to have stiff fines for non compliance and to be strict with their enforcement when offenders are caught.

 

With regards to fishing for dreams if things continue its going to be "oh we had a brilliant time in Alderney we brought back 200 Turbot it was graet and not one over 3lb, just the right size for my frying pan."

We should be thinking fish of a lifetime type dreams "look at the 25lb turbot I caught and I had to throw a bigger one back

 

On the basis of whether this is right or not it would be lovely if we could all take what we wanted from the sea, but we can't as even we as anglers can make a difference to fish stocks, and the fact remains that the Guernsey fishermen will probably get backed to some degree by the government on this one and we as anglers should be ready to negotiate a comprimise we are happy with, as this is going to become the norm before we know it, we need to educate ourselves and our fellow anglers that wholesale slaughter is not acceptable if we want an angling future. Of course the commercials need to take their share of the responsibility but simply one side blaming the other will leave us as anglers losing out.

 

As to 30 businesses going belly up I think that is a bit sensationalist, I am trying to rack my brains to think of any new bussineses that have set up in Alderney to cater soley for the charter fleet, admitedly some businesses may see a down turn in takings but they were all operating before the charter boom.

Who says the charters will stop coming anyway where else are they going to go to get better fishing, bag limits don't mean you catch less fish they just mean greedy individuals can't just take what they want and ruin a precious resource, lets all be a bit foresighted on this one and use the benefit of hind sight from other fisheries and look at what both angling and commercial pressure has done to them.

[Stoaty]

I go to Alderney quite a bit, usually twice a year for a 7 day trip each time. I find some of the statistics being banded about as way off the mark. A weeks boat fishing will probably consist of two half days on the turbot and brill, a day or half day on the bass, a day on the big blondes, a day on bream and triggers, a day on the tope and the rest of the time on the ground for conger and huss. Wreck fishing may be done coming and going from Alderney. Then again you might not get all your days fishing in due to poor weather.

 

I have heard occasionally of boats that have had a "good day" on the banks for turbot, over 10 maybe up to 20 fish, but I also hear of boats that have many "bad" days on the banks, just a couple of fish. Fact is you target the tide, get it wrong and you can catch very little for a days work. We normally take 2-3 turbot/brill home each for the weeks fishing.

 

I think many anglers see a CI trip as a once in a lifetime thing and they want to catch a few turbots, as many anglers will never get the chance any other way. I can't believe though that anyone would spend a whole week dragging the banks. It's not exactly exciting fishing is it?

 

You don't have to go far for turbot as they can be caught very close to the island. No need to go into Bailiwick waters. How would they tell if a fish was caught in Alderney waters or not?

 

On the subject of anglers selling fish. I know of no angler that has caught CI fish and sold it on. I do however know of fish caught off the south coast and sold in the CI to a restaraunt.

 

Personally I am not keen on bag limits. However it would not really effect me or my friends too much as we never bring that much fish back.

 

I think everyone should try and get some proper statistics on fish caught by CI charter trips. The guessing is way off the mark.

[Sharkbyte]

Stoaty you make some very good points. The one I would like to pick up on is the possible amounts of fish illegally sold by Bailiwick residents. How come there's no mention of this particularly sensitive issue in the consultation document and no guestimate figures attached. The UK now has regulation and enforcement in place designed to police the buyers and sellers of fish. If the alledgedly illegal selling of anglers catches, wherever they are resident, is such a problem to Fisheries, surely they have similar legislation in place?

 

Chappers, I really don't think you understand all of the implications and history concerning this proposal. I have absolutely no objection to bag limits per se, as long as they have been preceeded by stringent measures coupled to the commercial take. There is no mention of any possible compromise in the consultation document because it is designed to favour commercial fishermen to the detriment of all the Alderney residents that have successfully, off of their own back, built a world class angling destination in an era of otherwise dwindling tourism.

 

And as for sensationalism, well.......

 

With regards to fishing for dreams if things continue its going to be "oh we had a brilliant time in Alderney we brought back 200 Turbot it was graet and not one over 3lb, just the right size for my frying pan."

We should be thinking fish of a lifetime type dreams "look at the 25lb turbot I caught and I had to throw a bigger one back

[chappers]

I fully understand where the commercials are coming from on this one and realise its totally a selfish proposal on their part, I also totally agree they need to be restricted too, but we as anglers need to do our part too and through this negotiation and doing our bit we can bargain, through our own comprimise for the commercials to be restricted too. We give them in some way what they want and in return they give us something back.As to the history as I said previously I was told many years ago of the disquiet within the guernsey fishing fleet concerning this matter and that something similar to this or even worse may be in the offing.

 

As for what you call my sensationalism that was an hypothetical situation but my point was that in the modern angling world we should think more of quality and less of quantity.

 

As for the Alderney residents building a world class angling destination that isn't quite how it has happened, they have taken advantage of a natural resource, it is mainly the mainland charter skippers who have opened this up, there have been no extra facilities etc provided to attract anglers (well not in the 20 years I have been going there). I say this in no way being derogatory to the people of Alderney but basically the island has continued pretty much in the same way as it always has, in my opinion one of the major attractions of the place.

Edited September 1, 2006 by chappers

[alderneyangling]

I go to Alderney quite a bit, usually twice a year for a 7 day trip each time. I find some of the statistics being banded about as way off the mark. A weeks boat fishing will probably consist of two half days on the turbot and brill, a day or half day on the bass, a day on the big blondes, a day on bream and triggers, a day on the tope and the rest of the time on the ground for conger and huss. Wreck fishing may be done coming and going from Alderney. Then again you might not get all your days fishing in due to poor weather.

 

I have heard occasionally of boats that have had a "good day" on the banks for turbot, over 10 maybe up to 20 fish, but I also hear of boats that have many "bad" days on the banks, just a couple of fish. Fact is you target the tide, get it wrong and you can catch very little for a days work. We normally take 2-3 turbot/brill home each for the weeks fishing.

 

I think many anglers see a CI trip as a once in a lifetime thing and they want to catch a few turbots, as many anglers will never get the chance any other way. I can't believe though that anyone would spend a whole week dragging the banks. It's not exactly exciting fishing is it?

 

You don't have to go far for turbot as they can be caught very close to the island. No need to go into Bailiwick waters. How would they tell if a fish was caught in Alderney waters or not?

 

On the subject of anglers selling fish. I know of no angler that has caught CI fish and sold it on. I do however know of fish caught off the south coast and sold in the CI to a restaraunt.

 

Personally I am not keen on bag limits. However it would not really effect me or my friends too much as we never bring that much fish back.

 

I think everyone should try and get some proper statistics on fish caught by CI charter trips. The guessing is way off the mark.

 

 

 

To get accurate stats should have been easy which is why I find the Guernsey Sea Fisheries here very puzzling. There are two paid officers in Alderney that have never boarded a boat in the time I have been here to inspect stocks (been here three years nearly) and as the boats come in to port and radio permission from the harbour office to berth the opportunitys have been there to find out exactly what is aboard these vessels.

With regards to growth in business' there have been at least two new B and B's (before Harbour Lights closed!), and at least one new taxi company. Restaurants, pubs thrive and of course a fantastic tackle shop has emerged

[chappers]

and of course a fantastic tackle shop has emerged

 

Can't argue with that Mark but as far as I can see you are the only one actually putting in the extra effort to take advantage of the increase in visiting anglers, long may it continue that way.

[Jaffa]

Andy,

To get accurate stats should have been easy which is why I find the Guernsey Sea Fisheries here very puzzling. There are two paid officers in Alderney that have never boarded a boat in the time I have been here to inspect stocks (been here three years nearly) and as the boats come in to port and radio permission from the harbour office to berth the opportunitys have been there to find out exactly what is aboard these vessels.

How would boarding the odd charter boat be useful if the charters are highly unlikely to be breaking any laws ? (as i take it would be the case at present).

 

If its accurate statistics for stock management then they need returns from every boat every trip surely? Could they hand you a logbook to you and let you be the "returns officer" ? ( im not joking either; so many of these things boil down to mundane practical matters). Getting good catch stats takes a lot of trust IME.

 

With regards to enforcement whilst you do obviously have to have patrols, all that is necessary ist to have stiff fines for non compliance and to be strict with their enforcement when offenders are caught.

 

Enforcement at sea is maybe not perhaps as easy you suggest? . Enforcement boats are expensive to keep manned and at sea. A fleet of a dozen charters (or commercials for that matter ) has great "early warning" of when something is about to happen and IME skippers are generally very smart guys (commercial or otherwise), usaully well ahead of most games when it comes to dealing with officialdom at sea . Add in an island location base you have a situation where it may well be likely that the proposed rules would be counter productive; If its in their commercial interests and they can get away with it then charter skippers will find away around it if they don't agree or understand the need for regulation.

 

Just an outsiders point of view, but it stikes me that the heart of this issue is the lack of accurate landing figures for the charter boats; thats fine if your fishing for a species where the years angling totals are a nights landing to one commercial (eg say mackeral) but worrying when they may equal the commercial catch locally, or even be a big percentage nationally. If the stats show the charters are having an effect then its surely likely they could educate their customers and reduce the numbers taken.

 

Would hate to see this get turned into a national issue like Steve and Sharkbyte appear to want ; from what little ive read the Guernsey fisheries guys seem to be doing a better job than most?

 

FWIW, my opinion would be to find a way to get the landing stats recorded for the sea fisheries people,do not let the issue get hijacked by outsiders politics and find a local solution. If you are going to go to war then don't use conservation arguements - they will have you for breakfast on that those! Just MO .

 

Simple! lol, if only it ever was

 

All the best to you all,

 

Chris.