Fish Thefts....some good news!

[mark barrett]

Mark ,lets get a few things straight here;

 

I do like Pike and am planning to go Pike fishing in the near future.

 

Some Pike anglers are fish thieves and fish smugglers and it is these I am attacking , and not the vast majority of innocent pikers.

 

I flag up issues that I feel need flagging up, it is hardly my fault that lately most of them are Pike related, as you have been studying my posts on here and elsewhere you will know I have condemned cheating match anglers, bad angling practice,the killing of ANY freshwater fish for the pot , and scores of of other issues related to angling in general.

 

The Holyhead incident is one of the more serious in recent years and I believe any angler ,regardless of background is equally appalled at the actions of Williams and Co, they broke the law not some poxy clubs rules and they are an utter disgrace to angling .

 

Now I will finish with a question for you Mark, How many deadbait wholesalers have signed up to the PAC kite-mark scheme and how many have not?.

 

PS, When I was the skipper of a very successful match team in the 90s, Webster would ring me up for quotes to print in the EDP and other papers.....he ALWAYS mis-quoted me and printed crap that I never ,ever said, I am not a big fan of his and have no qualms in saying that on a public forum, if you think I am part of his little band of anti pikers you are very mistaken, I am my own man Mark, I suspect, just the same as you are,

Regards and seasons greetings,Bob.

 

 

bob,

 

though the pikemark is notreally my baby, i know that there are certainly three companies that have signed up, those being baitbox, ammo and lucebaits.

We have also spoken to dynamite, who are looking at launching their own range too at some time in the future, however as i said i am not dealing direct with this so i am unsure as to how far that has progressed, certainly i havent as yet seen any dynamite packaged deads in shops, so i am presuming that they havent yet launched them?

 

as for how many that havent, again i honestly dont know, because i dont know personally how many dealers there are. i can only think of one other big bait firm that isnt, but i would quite happily admit that there may be more.

 

the whole implementation of this scheme was a lot of effort mate believe me, because a lot of bait firms were a bit wary of revealing where they got their fish from, in case a competitor got wind, however i think i am right in saying that most used the same suppliers anyway!

That aside, unfortunately the timing of all ofthis was also an issue, as most of the companies had already done their packaging for this winter. there are pikemarked packets hitting the freezers, but i would think that the majority of these will appear from next winter onwards.

 

 

as regards the rest bob, you say you are not anti pike, yet you never flagged up as you call it bob nudds comments, did you not deem those as "worthy" then? because i know that a lot of anglers did. A hero to many of angling calling for a cull on pike, that to some is equally as loathesome as the actions of the holyhead two.

 

merry xmas

[Bob Bradford]

I participated in quite a lot of the various debates regarding Bob Nudd's comments in the N.O.T.W so you must have missed them , For the record I do not agree or endorse what Bob Nudd consented to putting his name to in a National newspaper re; Pike culling on the Avon and other rivers, but in the interests of fairness I have to point out , it was only HIS opinion and as far as I am aware there has not been a Pike cull as a result of his voicing his thoughts, at the time it was suggested that match anglers would blindly follow his every word and start killing Pike because Bob Nudd says to do so, well this was and is rubbish I think you will agree, there is a vast difference between the Bob Nudd saga and the Holyhead one, Williams and Banks knowingly broke the law and went to extreme lengths to do so I might add, they admitted it and have been dealt with, I know that the PAC came out very strongly against them , others have not, in fact the Anglers Mail still employ Williams and that reflects badly on the Mail IMO.

 

Whilst typing this I was reminded of an incident that occurred on the TF site a few months back, A match angler from the midlands but not one that I have ever met was posting things like "I kill Pike with my bankstick as they are vermin" and other such harmful crap, let me tell you I did not hold back on him, I told him precisely what I thought his brains were made of (sounds like grit) anyway , on a public forum he threatened to "wrap his bankstick around my neck" I of course called him out but as is always the way he disappeared off the forum, I do try to be fair, as far as I am concerned wrong is wrong whatever branch of the sport/pastime they choose to participate in, I hope that gives you a better understanding of me, have a good Christmas ,

Bob.

[ChrisBishop]

I never believed this was happening at the time of the alleged Potter Heigham incident and I don't now.

 

In March, there were reports of it happening, which were basically a rehash of the same three-year-old story. Curiously, when the story surfaced again a couple of weeks back, the EA were quoted as receiving no reports of alleged thefts for two years.

 

Hold on a minute.

 

Does that mean it didn't happen again in March..? Surely if the EA now says it has no record of fish theft in the area for two years, it must mean reports of it happening were wrong.

 

If the EA has no record because this wasn't reported to the EA, isn't this a bit of an ommission if people are that sure of their facts..? Surely they've got a responsibility to help the EA track down those concerned by reporting such incidents.

 

So was there an inident in March or not..? Or was it just the same old urban myth being recycled again.

 

I know which one I believe.

 

If you're going to net fish, who in their right mind's going to do it from a boatyard. They not only have security protecting the millions of quid worth of fibreglass and plywood floating about, they'd also physically be a difficult water to net, requiring a boat.

 

Surely anyone looking to steal fish wholesale is going to do so at the start of the pike season, when people are stocking up with baits so there's a ready market. You're not going to wait until February or March, when the season's almost over.

 

Notwithstanding the time of year they'd choose an easier water like - for the sake of argument - one of the remoter land drains in the Fens which are shallow, snag-free and have easy road access.

 

Two of the companies who've signed up for the Pikemark account for around 70pc of the market in coarse deads.

 

Both state they account for a fraction of their sales, as most pike anglers rate sea deads more highly.

 

The coarse deads they sell are taken from a water which isn't coarse fished, where coarse fish are cropped each year.

 

Between them, they get through a few tonnes a year, which sounds a lot but isn't when you look at the amount of seabaits pike anglers use.

 

This is all easily checkable fact.

 

Yet those who continue to make allegations never come to the PAC - which would happily put them in touch with people in the bait industry who'd explain to them how it works, or even check with bait dealers and tackle shops for the sake of balance in the first place.

 

Fortunately, this whole story's now become so daft, in particular those concerned can't even agree when this theft is meant to have occurred, that no-one with an ounce of common sense is going to take a blind bit of notice of it.

 

I guess one other question would be what do the people at the boatyards think. In all the stories I've seen about this, I've never seen any corroboration from them, which just shows how well-researched, balanced and accurate they've been.

 

If you're going to write about something being stolen from someone's property, you'd probably go to them for a comment to help stand the story up, wouldn't you..?

 

What all this put together shows is very simple.

 

It never happened, did it.

[Bob Bradford]

Ask the match secretary and the Chairman of Stalham angling club about the huge amount of fish scales covering the boardwalks inside the wetsheds three winters back, ask them how many fish they caught prior to this and then ask them how many they caught a week later in their club matches, and subsequent matches held that winter, go into the tackle shop at Lathams and speak to the manager, ask him if he recalls selling me a disposable camera so I could take shots of the wetsheds and boardwalks, phone the EA at Ipswich and ask to speak to Mr Rupert Pyatt, ask him about the conversations I had with him on the phone and the letter he sent me, while you are at it , ask him about my letter of complaint regarding his response in this matter.

 

Be in no doubt thousands and thousands of small roach and skimmers were stolen from those wetsheds three winters back, for your information and I told you this fact on the phone when we spoke a month or so back but you choose to ignore it, THERE WAS NO CAMERA SECURITY IN OPERATION FOR THOSE WETSHEDS , there was a defunct camera on one of the wetsheds and I inquired with the staff of Herbert Woods reception if it worked at the time, I also spoke to several members of staff that were plainly anti angling and very unhelpful indeed.

 

One more time , the wetsheds were NOT NETTED, it is not possible to net the wetsheds because of the amount of boats inside, the fish were removed in a very efficient way, known to poachers and bailiffs, I was sent an e-mail by some-one off of this site describing EXACTLY how it was done....he WAS a fish poacher and is now a bailiff....I sent a copy of this e-mail to a couple of members I trust on here and Keith Arthur...I WILL NOT DIVULGE HOW IT WAS DONE ON HERE OR ON ANY OTHER PUBLIC ANGLING FORUM FOR REASONS I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OBVIOUS.

 

I have no proof who took those fish or where they ended up, but , I do not think they were for human consumption,private stocking of another water (the fish were damaged too much , remember the thousands and thousands of scales?) I do not believe the EA official response that Mink and Otters were responsible, there was and still is NO EVIDENCE OF MINK AND OTTERS LIVING IN THE AREA, I invited the EA down on site to prove their existence and up to now they have refused my offer, perhaps you can show me where they are Chris? this is the OFFICIAL REASON for the disappearance of those fish from the EA remember.

 

You choose to believe that the fish were not removed illegally, in fact you clearly think they never disappeared at all......where's your proof?

 

The EA officially said that the missing fish were the result of Mink and Otter predation, so they at least admit and acknowledge that fish went missing, even though the reason they gave could not be upheld with any evidence on site.

 

I KNOW what I saw on the boardwalks that fateful Sunday, I took photo 's and sent them to the Angling Times, I spoke to staff in Lathams and Herbert Woods boat yard that day, I also spoke to the match secretary of Stalham and several of his members that were fishing that Sunday about the lack of fish being caught and huge amount of fish scales on the boardwalks inside the wetsheds, one of the members I spoke to was Jimmy Randell an ex -England International....he blanked from a peg that only the week before he had caught 20lb from, he and his mates all caught double figures the week before in fact, but after the incident a 6 oz Roach was all that was caught to win the match and they decided to cancel the remainder of their matches that Winter, Stalham AC had paid £2500 for the fishing rights that winter do you think they would have stopped fishing it after such a heavy investment of club funds if the fish were still present?

 

The following winter I returned to the wetsheds several times to search for signs of a repeat, I was delighted to see fish topping inside the wetsheds and huge shoals of fish sheltering for the winter as usual, Stalham did not renew the fishing rights and the fish remained unmolested all that winter, I understand this winter that Stalham have paid for the right to fish there this winter but I have not paid them a visit yet, I am more than willing to do so next Sunday and if you wish we can meet up and talk to those match anglers ,the secretary and the Chairman and question them about then and now.

 

I have no hidden agenda, no Axe to grind , I flagged this up because it was hugely significant and thought it would interest every conservation minded angler that just might give a damn, I have not a made a penny from this nor do I intend to, I have never even fished their nor am I a member of Stalham AC........in short I have nothing to gain, and in fact it would be far easier for me if I had never bothered to write about it in the first place and just walk away, I still could and frankly I do not give toss what you choose to believe , you carry on blindly ignoring the bleeding obvious if it makes you feel better, but never, ever question my honesty in this matter.

[ChrisBishop]

Ask the match secretary and the Chairman of Stalham angling club about the huge amount of fish scales covering the boardwalks inside the wetsheds three winters back,

 

So just to clarify matters this was now three winters back - not this March.

 

I'm not questioning your honesty Bob, it's just the story seems to change every other time it does the rounds.

 

I think I explained this and I'm as happy to meet up for a chat as ever.

 

I've no axe to grind with anyone but as people try to keep injecting new life into this story it would be good to get to the bottom of what did go on.

 

You now say that the fish weren't netted, for example.

 

Yet all the way along the line that's what people have maintained happened, accusing deadbait suppliers of being behind it.

 

I haven't ignored what you told me, as I say the story just seems to take on a life of its own without anyone ever getting to the bottom of it.

 

The best thing about it is it's enabled the PAC to build a stronger working relationship with some of the country's biggest bait suppliers, because they're as fed up with being smeared by association as pike anglers in Norfolk are.

[Bob Bradford]

I know nothing about a rehashed story this March, I suggest you speak to the author, as far as I am aware there has been no repeat of the incident from 3 winters back, I have only ever referred to that incident, I believe it was conducted over a period of days and not a one off, there were just too many missing fish for it to have been carried out overnight.

 

My "story" I prefer account, has never altered, except I did believe the fish were netted but did not know how, as I have previously stated I was enlightened as to how it was done by an "Expert" several weeks after I first raised this issue on here.

 

It is a fact that un-marked deadbaits were on sale in Lathams of Potter Heigham, and several of the Angling direct shops in my area, I saw them with my own eyes and questioned the managers as to their origin, I was never shown an invoice but the managers "assumed" they were ligit, this winter I have not seen un-marked coarse fish deadbaits for sale in these shops, nor as I understand things have there been any reports of disappearing fish .....and that is why I posted this thread, to me at least I see this as a huge success, I may be guilty of gloating a little but I am guilty of nothing else.

 

I am still looking forward to a Pike trip with you in the near future Chris,

 

Regards Bob.

[ChrisBishop]

The story was in one or two newspapers this March, suggesting it had just happened.

 

But there was no proof of these elusive un-marked vaccuum-packed bags of frozen baits, no-one bought one or took a picture of it. So how can you believe it..?

 

It's always un-named shops selling these things, no-one who complains about it ever seems able to make the very simple step of going out and buying one to stand the story up.

 

Angling Direct seemed to have a different view at the time, they were quoted as saying their baits came from legitimate sources.

 

When you look at what other shops quoted in stories said, they said their customers were upset about the story, which is different to being offered unmarked vaccuum packs of bait.

 

More than happy to adjourn this to the riverbank for a pike fishing trip, come up here for the day, I'll pop down your way or meet in the middle.

 

I'll give you a ring, take care CB

[Bob Bradford]

I can confidently state on this public forum that Lathams of Potter Heigham and Angling Direct in Beccles were selling un-marked coarse deadbaits at that time, I can confirm that I spoke to both of the managers about this , both party's said they were purchased from a legitimate source ( a bait wholesaler) but I was never shown any invoices, I was told by the then manager of the Beccles Angling Direct branch ( Mr Daniel Brydon) that the Norwich shop were also selling the same item ,from the same source, I have checked the Beccles branch this winter and there were NO un-marked coarse deadbaits on sale, when I asked the new manager the reason for this he said " we have changed our suppliers Bob".

 

Now, I would never open myself up for libel on here if those were not the facts Chris, I am in total agreement with you and Mark Barrett though in the knowledge that together ,with the help of Keith Arthur and one or two others that the practice of selling un-marked coarse deadbaits in the major angling shops of Norfolk seems to have been eradicated, I do however take your point that I could have taken a more subtle approach to this problem , and God forbid, if this "problem" should ever resurface and I discover it happening again I will have no hesitation in contacting you or Mark privately, you have to understand Chris, at the time I did not have contacts from within the PAC, I genuinely feel both you and Mark have endeavored to build a bridge and this has to be a good thing for angling and shows quite clearly that the PAC are trying very hard to get their house in order, lets hope that all the other disciplines in angling can follow your lead,

Regards Bob.

[ChrisBishop]

When we going pike fishing Bob. Guarantee we'll get on better debating the issues with a few baits out and the stove on mate.