Rescue your mate?

[Jeff S]

Yep indeed! and to show how easy it can be to be a dead hero, remember if it was a DIY job, its likely that no one would have any PPE, let alone alarms.

 

As for the Coastguard weve got no idea if he even made an assessment, but as the MCA said, he hasnt been told off ............!

 

I see your point Dan- I assumed it was a professional job myself. But as for the second bit- I disagree-He had to have made an assessment based on his actions. He didn't just stand there book in hand and wait for the girl to fall. Doesn't an assessment = a decision? Obviously it was the correct one and damn the risk.

 

 

I do agree that people doing it professionally should know what they are doing.

 

The other thing I have been saying is that its easy to make assumptions from news articles only telling the half of a story that sells papers!! Equally making assumptions from a Poll that doesnt give much detail!!

 

Dan

 

Agree and Agree!

[Dan]

I see your point Dan- I assumed it was a professional job myself. But as for the second bit- I disagree-He had to have made an assessment based on his actions. He didn't just stand there book in hand and wait for the girl to fall. Doesn't an assessment = a decision? Obviously it was the correct one and damn the risk.

Agree and Agree!

 

 

I can only say wot I said before! and that is based on half a story, but he made the decision not to take the ropes before he could fully assess what he might need because he was so far away, which if you remember was why he said he left them!! You can only make an sound asessment of this nature when you know all the facts, we assume that he must of considered that the 20 seconds or so it would take to get the kit out of the van were more important than going prepared, My view is that because he wasnt aware of all the facts he should have taken the kit. Again due to lack of accurate info there is no suggestion that she would have fallen in those 20 seconds.

 

If on the other hand the girl was in no danger and the cliff was no more than a steep hill, which has been suggested elsewhere, then he wouldnt have needed the ropes, but then he wouldnt have been a hero either!

 

Having said all that the MCA has said he hasnt been repremanded anyway!!

 

I have to say its basic emergency service drill, go ask a coast guard!

 

Dan

[Ken Davison South Wales]

I can only say wot I said before! and that is based on half a story, but he made the decision not to take the ropes before he could fully assess what he might need because he was so far away, which if you remember was why he said he left them!! You can only make an sound asessment of this nature when you know all the facts, we assume that he must of considered that the 20 seconds or so it would take to get the kit out of the van were more important than going prepared, My view is that because he wasnt aware of all the facts he should have taken the kit. Again due to lack of accurate info there is no suggestion that she would have fallen in those 20 seconds.

 

If on the other hand the girl was in no danger and the cliff was no more than a steep hill, which has been suggested elsewhere, then he wouldnt have needed the ropes, but then he wouldnt have been a hero either!

 

Having said all that the MCA has said he hasnt been repremanded anyway!!

 

I have to say its basic emergency service drill, go ask a coast guard!

 

Dan

 

It is not just a case of getting it out of the van, he/they would have to climb the gate and carry the kit with at least 200' of rope plus the kit which would include anchors if you are following the book. Only having a bit of the story makes it hard to make a judgement but I was assuming we are talking at least a couple of hundred yards or so. A fit guy could jump the gate and be down there in a minute depending on ground conditions, laden down with all that kit considerably more.

 

Again at a guess the girl was not to far down and his personal abilities would allow him to aid her very quickly by just scrambling down.

 

It could have been a case when he arrived that she was well out of their reach and additional resources would be required so the precious minutes saved by running over could have proved vital.

 

It is becoming fairly obvious that someone on the team stuck the knife in for whatever reason, but it would appear that the powers that be were not concerned by this and there my have been some mis-judgement on the part of Mr. Waugh in his later actions.

 

It all seems very sad after 13yrs though

[Jeff S]

I can only say wot I said before! and that is based on half a story, but he made the decision not to take the ropes before he could fully assess what he might need because he was so far away, which if you remember was why he said he left them!! You can only make an sound asessment of this nature when you know all the facts, we assume that he must of considered that the 20 seconds or so it would take to get the kit out of the van were more important than going prepared, My view is that because he wasnt aware of all the facts he should have taken the kit. Again due to lack of accurate info there is no suggestion that she would have fallen in those 20 seconds.

 

If on the other hand the girl was in no danger and the cliff was no more than a steep hill, which has been suggested elsewhere, then he wouldnt have needed the ropes, but then he wouldnt have been a hero either!

 

Having said all that the MCA has said he hasnt been repremanded anyway!!

 

I have to say its basic emergency service drill, go ask a coast guard!

 

Dan

 

I see it! I understand the point you are trying to make Dan! I'll even raise you ten! But I think our definition of assessments are totally different. Maybe to the point we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

My definition of assessment might go something like this: I knew it was going to rain on Wednesday, and knowing I was going to need something more substantial I still wore a sweatshirt. I fully understand that by not having a rain jacket there is the potential that I might get wet. Now at 10am I get a call and need to go out- say 100 meters away. It isn't raining at the moment but half way to where I need to be it starts to pour! What do I do? I have to make a decision. I don't have a jacket but in my car 50 feet away I have an umbrella. Now I have a dilemma! So in this case I choose to ignore the fact that I am getting wet and continue on... (Stupid analogy and sorry! )

 

I accepted the risk that I had the potential to get wet. I made a conscious decision and got wet.

 

Now potentially/hypothetically/whatever (based on half story yada yada), Mr. Waugh had less time than I did to make his decision and being (hopefully) fully knowledgeable about what he has the potential to need. He gets to the cliff assesses that he can based on conditions- maybe hold onto the girl long enough for someone else to get back to get the right kit. It worked.

 

You said- 'before he could fully assess'. <--- That my friend, is our difference. But he did make the decision based on what he had when he became aware of what he DID need.

 

In the US in life saving techniques cardio pulmonary/ first aid they teach to assess the situation. (gauge the risk) Are you putting yourself in danger by providing assistance? Did the person get struck by lightning and is now not breathing etc, or did they touch a downed electrical line and it is still live? Struck by lightning I would assist. Downed power I think not.

 

So, in my book whether he had all the facts or not is, in fact, irrelevant. No offense Dan!

 

Ken, that split second decision may very well have made the difference. I hope Mr. Waugh is around if I am ever in need.

[Dan]

I think were sort of saying the same thing! except, and this is key to my point we did not know that " he had less time than I did to make his decision"

 

If he knew he only had seconds to act then he made the right decision no question, but I doubt that was the case because by his own admission he had to park so far way. He surely couldnt have seen what the situation was. You have to know what the risk is before you assess it (or in simple terms you have to think about what you need) I just think it seems odd that you might think that you wont need ropes to effect a cliff rescue. I guess we'll never know the truth, although I do know a couple of Coastguards, if I see em I'll ask!!

[Jeff S]

Very good! Best debate I've ever had!

[Dan]

ear ear!!!