MikeT

Yes, that’s very compelling. I can understand the satisfaction of realising a longstanding ambition like that, and that the whole purpose of trying to catch fish of certain target weights is the toughness of the challenge this presents. I guess it’s the way we can make our fishing competitive, even when we’re not in a competition as such. We’re competing with the challenge of catching a fish that’s defined (by its weight) as extremely hard to catch, and there must be great satisfaction in succeeding in such tough challenges. My personal misgiving about this is that it could eclipse the real point of fishing (for me), and effectively spoil the simple pleasure of this noble sport. I’ve seen anglers actually become disappointed upon finding their fish an ounce or two short of twenty pounds, when moments before weighing it they’d been exhilarated. Reducing it to a known weight thus diminishes their achievement (rather more often than not). Which is insane, in my not so humble opinion. By never weighing my fish, I’m quite unable to compete with myself because I have no Personal Best targets- so I rarely know for sure if I’ve ever bettered them. And I cannot compete with anyone else’s fish, nor even share my experience of my fish by describing it in objective terms according to its size. It therefore remains an essentially personal thing, which is how I like it. Instead, the way I measure the achievement of my catch is by completely subjective means. If the fish is big I don’t need scales to tell me. Weighing it cannot improve its appearance- it’s either beautiful or not. If I’ve worked especially hard to catch it I already feel a sense of achievement, and the wonderful satisfaction of succeeding in the challenge. The greatest achievement for me is the pleasure I take from simply being there, regardless of the size of any fish I may happen to catch, and I reckon I’m lucky to feel I can meet that challenge well enough without reducing fish to their weight. But I know I'm a bit odd!

Yes, I understand one shouldn't knock it till one tries it. But I really can't imagine how much more pleasure I'd feel for knowing the weight of any fish I catch. They're either big or they're small, beautiful or mangy, and their mass under gravity wouldn't seem to alter any of that. Or maybe it would. I dunno.

I’m weird, because for me the actual weight of the fish really doesn’t matter at all. Of the fish listed, I’d most like to catch a big Roach, but I’d be equally happy whether it happened to weigh 1lb 15oz, or 2lb 1oz. Truth is, I wouldn’t even know, because I never weigh my fish. For me, the most important objective measure of a fish is to be subjectively pleased to have caught it, so its weight is neither here nor there. A big Roach would be a dream come true- whatever accurate measurements could be made of its dimension. The real point of these target weights is so anglers can describe their fish to other anglers in universally recognisable terms. Everyone knows how special a really big Roach is, and we all know that a 2lb Roach is a really big roach. But is a 1lb 15oz Roach really any less special than a 2lb 1oz Roach, except that it artificially and academically becomes so by the process of weighing it and finding it short? There’s a bit of an obsession with size here, and, as my wife always tells me, it doesn’t matter.

Thanks!!!

I’m missing two editions from my collection of Waterlog magazines (numbers 11 and 24). They're no longer available from the publishers direct. Do any of you good folk have any idea where I might be able to find copies for sale? These magazines do come up from time to time on eBay, but I’m too impatient to wait for the odd editions to appear. I’ve searched the interweb for second-hand magazine sellers, but no joy. I'd be very much obliged. Mike.

I’ve now watched Four Seasons on the Hampshire Avon a couple of times, and I’d like to commend it to the forum. It’s a lovely film that shows the sublime natural beauty of the Hampshire Avon throughout the changing seasons. The style and emphasis is very reminiscent of A Passion for Angling, and anyone who likes that wonderful series will surely enjoy this film. Watching the Four Seasons is like a tonic. I haven’t been able to get out angling as much as I’d have liked recently, and this film’s been a wonderful fix for my craving- it really hits the spot. The scenery is gorgeous, and there’s tons of wildlife footage against the ambient soundtrack of rippling water and birdsong. Owls, woodpeckers, water voles and deer are beautifully shown, against a backdrop of wild flowers and butterflies in the water meadows, and silhouetted trees in sunsets. The classical music (Elgar) sets the relaxed mood of the film, and Jason Inskip narrates with dulcet tones. The fishing is brilliant too- there’s great coverage of salmon and brown trout fly fishing and dramatic footage of some very impressive coarse angling. I don’t want to give too much away, but there are captures of specimen river carp, barbel, pike and roach, with the emphasis throughout being on the angling not just the catching. It doesn’t try to be a technical fishing instruction documentary, but as an hour of unadulterated visual therapy for the angler who loves to fish in idyllic rural English countryside, it really does the job. After watching it I felt as chilled out as if I’d actually been there. Five Stars from me.

Well I guess their marketing advisors are stupid in that case. You’d think they’d want the best return for all that hard work and financial investment, but the fools obviously don’t know what on Earth they’re doing! If only you’d been available to tell them how simple it all really is, they’d have made a fortune and grandfathers everywhere would have had good value Christmas presents!

How do you thin down your sewing machine oil with WD40, tincatinca? Do you mix it up first, or give the spindle a quick spray before/after you add the drop of oil? To check for ideal lubrication, I find it’s best to put my ear next to the reel and listen to it spinning. When I’ve oiled it properly there’s no sound at all; too much or too little oil and I can hear a very slight noise as it spins, which is obviously friction. Great tip, Chris. I had a feeling you’d have a Method! I’m gonna get me some of that there GT85 stuff.

As a centrepin reel novice, I’m struck by how important it is to get the lubrication right. I have an Okuma Sheffield with ball bearings, and a couple of old Allcock aerials and two Witcher aerials which have plain spindle bearings. With the Okuma it isn’t so critical, but I’ve noticed how the spin of the ‘true’ centrepin reels varies quite a lot according to how the reel is oiled. I have seen how important it is not to apply too much oil (disastrous), and to make sure the spindle (and its socket, if that’s the correct term) is absolutely immaculately clean. I’ve found the best method is to wipe the spindle carefully with an oily but clean microfibre cloth that doesn’t shed any fluff at all, and then to drop three drips of light oil directly onto the tip of the spindle, so it runs vertically down to cover the surface all round. I use Singer Super Oil for this- it’s a very light oil, and seems to work well. A few spins in each direction, and the reels will turn as freely as I can get them to. Does anyone else have any thoughts or tips on the mysterious art of centrepin lubrication?

You and millions of others, but I don't suppose Catching the Impossible will have similar sales or box office returns. The market for Catching The Impossible is very small, so the ratio of production cost to profit makes it a much better bargain than LOTR (despite that film's far greater initial cost).

I understand the release of this film is now imminent. You can find out how to order a copy on Paul's new website: Paul Witcher Productions Almost as good as being there!

Third time lucky, hopefully!

Nice review, Chris. When my trotting rod dies I'll be giving the Harrison a look, based on your very consistent recommendation! Is that your Chris Lythe or the 1920? Can't quite see on the photo.

I’m hoping to find one of those famous roach. Could anyone suggest tactics, so I can decide which gear to bring? I’m planning on doing some trotting with a match rod and centrepin reel, with 3lb line and a big stick float and bread flake on the hook over a bit of mash, with some maggots if that fails. Does that sound reasonable enough (depending on conditions, of course)?

I'd love to come along, if I may. It will be my first AN fish-in, so I'll be looking forward to putting some faces to names.

Yes, I can understand this. In fact, you can almost have your cake and eat it, with modern rods and reels being designed to be highly versatile, so you don’t have to compromise quality very much for all your versatility. But for me, angling is the romantic search for an idyll- an entirely aesthetic pleasure-seeking pursuit. This raises the threshold for my satisfaction to the unreasonable point that my fishing would actually be spoiled by having to use gear that wasn’t ideal for my purpose, which almost defeats it. I’d hate to be sat there wishing I’d brought a centrepin because the egg whisk wasn’t doing the job properly (this happened recently- I went with intentions to fish the far bank for perch, and, like you, ended up nearside long-trotting with the fixed spool I’d taken. It was just crap, and I left early). I guess it all comes down to what you’re fishing for- your fish, or yourself. Fish are quite low down on the list of the objects of my angling. I know- I’m weird! Vive la difference!

There’s a pattern emerging here. There seem to be two main camps: A Versatility. The choice of those who’d prefer to keep the greatest number of options to cover the broadest diversity of styles of fishing with a single rod and reel outfit, at the cost of idealism. B Selective idealism. The choice of those for whom variety must be sacrificed for their preference for a particular style of fishing for which the outfit may be ideally selected, at the cost of versatility. It’s very interesting to contemplate why we individually fall into the groups we do, as I think it says a lot about what fishing means to each of us. I guess I’d rather go ledgering than never go fishing at all, but I’d much, much, much rather go a float trotting than anything else. If I had to choose between my ideal fishing four times a year and non-ideal versatile fishing four times a month, I’d certainly take the former (though it would do my head in). I think this is because, for me personally, fishing is ultimately about the magic of quality, not quantity. But it's a rather horrid mind exercise.

Easy-peasy. Normark Titan II, with Paul Witcher Bisterne centrepin. This is the best combo (of the rods and reels I own) for the type of fishing I prefer above all others- trotting a float down a river for roach and chub. My small baitcaster and avon rod would be a far more versatile outfit, and would permit many more types of fishing- but none of those is as pleasurable to me as seeing an old painted cork float being taken down a lovely quiet stretch of river into that spot where you just know there’ll be a lurking chub. I would certainly sacrifice versatility for preference, even if it meant less opportunity.

I use The Loop Method, with two big loops of line pulled through the butt ring and held with my right index and middle fingers. When I cast, I make sure to let go with my index finger before the middle finger (so the first loop is cast before the second, as it were). With maximum ‘slack’ line like this, I can usually reach far enough- especially since I tend to fish close in whilst long trotting (it’s hard to stop the float dragging across the current towards the near side when fishing along the far bank). But there’s uniform agreement amongst more experienced pin anglers that Wallis casting is well worth the trouble of learning. I’ve seen it done by an expert, and it’s exceedingly effective (and looks incredibly easy and natural to do, of course). I’d recommend you try your best to learn the technique. Once you’ve seen it done (there are plenty of videos and written instruction on the web- indeed there’s an excellent instructional video frequently linked to in threads on this forum which a quick search will reveal), go to a field with a half-ounce lead, and spend a couple of hours practicing. I’m intending to do this myself as soon as I get the chance.

I’m new to centrepin fishing, and couldn’t do a Wallis cast to save my life. I spend more time dealing with tangles than actually fishing, but nevertheless enjoy it more than I ever have with an egg whisk. I have two Witcher centrepins- one is 4 ½ inches with a narrow drum (the Avon Elite), and the other is 4 inches with a wide drum (the impossibly gorgeous Bisterne). The difference between the two reels is very dramatic- the Elite is amazing for long trotting, when there’s lots of line to retrieve. The 4 inch is very much easier to manage and handle for this novice (partly because it’s so light, and fits neatly in the hand), and I find I actually have far less tangles to deal with. I would not have believed half an inch could make such a difference (whatever women say!). In my very limited experience, 4 inches and wide drum is probably the ideal for all-round fishing, especially for those new to centrepin fishing.

I was dace fishing with Paul yesterday on the Avon (naturally), and from the sounds of it this film will be something very special. It has taken almost three years to make, and features some of the most beautiful angling scenery in the country. The exquisite Avon valley is shown in the various splendours of all four English seasons, the river itself constantly and eternally enchanting and mystical, and there are of course some wonderful fish. This film aims to capture something of the aesthetic spirit of angling, and will remind us why it’s not called ‘catching’. It will surely be something to keep and cherish.

I feel compelled to 'show my disdain' for your crock of 'nonsense'. I’m sure John cannot actually ‘take’ pike angling anywhere, even if he wanted to. His thoughts on this issue are not only relevant and arguably instructive, but he has managed to present them with a view to civilised discussion without resorting to ad hominem attack, unlike yours. You, sir, appear to have no interest whatsoever in the debate except to use the conversation as a vehicle to impose your opinion. Your posting style betrays a certain attitude which earns no respect from me, so your message is quite lost in your delivery. Nice work.

I’m sure everyone here cares very much for the welfare of fish. Pike are marvellous creatures, to be admired and treated with greatest respect. This thread is about the best ways to deal with small pike when they become an occasional nuisance to anglers (and roach) by opportunistically attacking the fish in a swim (and therefore spoiling the angling). Obviously, the ultimate way to solve this problem is not to fish for roach and watch the football instead. But if we accept the risk of attracting pike attacks by building a swim full of their prey fish, and making them sitting ducks on the retrieve, we should responsibly look for ways of minimising the harmful effects this may have on the roach, the pike, and the angler’s sport. The issue here is with intent. If the angler intends to go fishing for pike, he should use appropriate tackle- that is indisputable good sense. But the stalking lightweight roach angler does not intend to fish for pike. If pike attacks become a problem, he needs to know how best to deal with it. As has been suggested, one way is to take proper pike gear along, but this is very unhelpful to the angler who wishes to travel as lightly as possible. Personally, I’d rather watch the football. So, is there any way to find compromise? Well, perhaps not, but in my opinion it was an intelligent and sensible suggestion that small pike could be targeted intentionally with light wire traces and a small spinner, which neatly solves the dilemma. The limitations are obvious- it is quite possible to catch a bigger pike by mistake, which could end up breaking the line and being harmed by the tackle left hooked in it. This would be extremely disastrous, as we all agree. But we are talking of compromise here, not ideals. Ideally, the pike would wait until we have caught ten three-pound roach before he starts his dinner. But fishing is rarely ideal. I’m pleased to see such high principles of conservation amongst anglers today, and the esteem held for pike in particular (which, like sharks, have long had something of an image problem), but we must not sacrifice common sense on the altar of idealised principle. This fishing game is necessarily intrusive to fish, and although we should make every possible effort to minimise the harm we cause, we should not lose sight of this in our determination to be eco-politically correct. Very often, compromise of principle is the most sensible and practical option. I’m sorry to have drawn the rather harsh criticism on you, John. It’s as though you’re a roach who was trying his best to help, but got hit by a grumpy pike on the retrieve. Ironically enough.

I quite agree about using appropriate tackle for the type of fish targeted, and that if you target small pike you’re also targeting big pike which could make short shrift of 6lb main line on a light rod. However, speaking as someone who fusses over taking the least clobber possible, the thought of taking a separate outfit just in case of pike attacks is a less than whelming prospect. For me, part of the joy of stalking is the absolute minimalist approach, and I like to strip it all down to half a dozen hooks, a few split shot and three floats- so all of my tackle fits in my pockets. I take one light rod, a small and a telescopic handle with folding net, and that’s it. Call me weird. But if I intend to fish for pike I take appropriate tackle, and I can honestly say I’ve never lost a pike to tackle breakage when I’ve fished for them, so I’m happy to tell you, Andy, that none of those pike you’ve caught with traces and light line was from me. I guess the idea of compromising with using light gear to target occasional unwanted pike is not an appropriate solution.

Thanks for all the excellent advice. Budgie, I don’t suppose it would be advisable to use 12-15lb line with my match rod, so as well as the extra spool and odd bits of pike tackle I’d also need the extra rod. As you say, any cheap carp rod would be ideal, but then I’d be lugging around more gear than I’d like. I reckon 6lb main line would handle most jack pike on a tough little through-actioned float rod like the Titan. But do you suppose such line (with wire trace) would be irresponsibly light?