Rogerb

This is what works for me. I like it because I use a ‘Zig Rig’ for surface fishing and by using this method and a little imagination you can quickly switch to fishing a running ledger on the bottom if you fancy a change. It would work just as well with a float controller or just chucking a lump of bread flake as far as it will go I use an unsliced ‘Tin Loaf’ – Safeway are doing a buy one get one free at the moment for 67p. I tie a hair rig with the end of the hair loop about 0.75 to 1 inch below the bottom of the hook. Then either cut or tear a lump of crust, trying not to crush the flake, about 2 inches long by half an inch wide – experiment with this. Leave a good quarter inch or more of flake and fold either with the flake inside or outside until you find which is going best. Put the bread on the hair – don’t worry if the hook is tight against it – when it gets wet the hook will pull into the bread – perfect. As a stop I use whatever natural material is to hand – normally a combination of grass leaf and stem. Chuck it in and don’t leave your rod unattended. Best of luck. Roger.

Sorry folk’s Tim is right its called Vanish I don’t have the box because I am only am only considering it. The trouble is that I recall reading some fairly critical reviews when it is used as mainline but that it was excellent as a hook length. In those reviews IIRC there was mention that only one knot could be used. I can't remember what it was and am hoping that someone here may have first hand experience. My main knots are tying a hair, tying to swivels and tying to form a loop. Is Vanish OK with them? Cheers. Roger.

For me its 20mm pellet – never even had a nibble on it.

Thanks but maybe you have never seen Berkley Invisible!! Was that Yes or No? Cheers. Roger

I am thinking of using 8lb Berkley Invisible for my Hook Length but I understand that I can only use certain knots with it. Can anyone tell me if I can still use a Hair Rig then? Thanks. Roger.

Carefully tear or cut a strip of crust from an unsliced load, leave plenty of flake on it, fold it, either with flake inside or outside for variation then hair rig using a bit of grass stem or any other ‘natural’ hair stop you can lay your hands on. I use a hair about an inch long which causes the hook to pull in to the flake when it softens. I find it quite productive but you have to persevere as the carp will keep knocking the bread off. Get it right and the bread will stay on for some time. You can also switch to floating dog biscuits (Tesco Premium Mixer) or floating pellet which can be drilled and hair rigged. I have never tried sugar puffs or marshmallow but intend to as I have heard both are very good. I will be watching this thread with interest! To fish on or near the top I use the zig rig (search on Google for details) which allows the bait to be fished on the surface or just under. Best of luck. Let me know if you give it a try and how you get on. All the best. Roger.

OK, thanks. Roger.

Just out of interest, why steer away from Berley Vanish? Cheers. Roger.

Well I spoke to the owner of the fishery I tend to use most and he knew the product and he said he wasn't concerned. I can't remember exactly how the conversation went but it was along the lines that Carp pick all sorts when rummaging for food and (I think) he said that he doubted that they take it down anyway. He did say that the first time he finds a dead fish with one in its stomach though they will be banned! Also don’t miss the fact that you can put other baits on the SPHR as well as meat, i.e.: paste, bread, maybe even corn, but I have to say that overall I found them more trouble than they are worth. All the best. Roger

Peter, No need to apologise, I thought you put me in my place very politely considering the way some would deal with it! Needless to say I am nothing but an interested but (very) amateur photographer, hence me missing the signs of the fill in flash. Regards. Roger.

Ok, fair enough, shut up Roger, stick to things you know – pass the tea towel dear

IMHO its a good quality picture but a shame that a bit of flash wasn't used. It would have removed the shadow from the face and brightened up the main subject, which is a bit dark compared with the bright background. Cheers. Roger.

My PB is only a 15lb 8oz common but caught off the surface. Lost a better one at the net yesterday though PB on the bottom is a 12lb common.

Hi Jamie, Yes I have tried them with varying results I’m afraid and the dilemma's you have were mine also. On a hair I tried putting the loop of the hair through the loop on the SPHR and then carefully threading in over the wire and back up to the loop – like joining a hook link loop to a mainline loop really. When I got fed up with that I found that I could force the hair rig loop through the very small gap there is at the end of the SPHR loop. Trouble is I kept losing them (the SPHR's) and eventually this latter method damaged the hair loop and eventually it broke. I was also worried about fish health - where do they go? On my standard hairs the distance from the hook was also a concern, and shortening the hair ruined it I used a bait that did not need the SPHR. In the end I stopped using them. As they say in that ad on the Tele – life’s complicated enough!! Regards. Roger.

Hi Hereford_Angler I have seen picture of what you describe and that is not what I know as a Zig Rig although on the bank it could look similar. What I reckon you saw is a method where the lead is at the end of the line, the float is next (moving in the direction of the angler) and is used to improve the distance away from the angler that the line enters the water, a hook link is next, set so that it hangs with the bait touching the surface. If this is not clear let me know and I will try and find a piccy to upload. It looks to be a lovely method but I bet it is harder to put into practice than it looks. The big advantage of course is there is no line in contact with the water in the vicinity of the bait. To visualise a “Zig Rig” in its simplest form think of a simple running ledger with a dirty great lump of bread flake on the hook. Cast it in, bread floats to top, wind in a bit and the bread goes under a bit. That’s it, as I said in its simplest form. There are many versions though, some getting quite techy and inflexible IMHO. The beauty of the simple running ledger method is that if you get fed up you can put a bottom bait on and fish there. Maybe not the best of both worlds but the flexibility it gives is good enough for me. Also you can choose to fish the surface or just under, in fact as far down as the distance from hook to ledger stop allows. Incidentally I use the very light ‘mini ledger stops’ and the bread that I use most of the time is buoyant enough to support that and a swivel if you feel the need. HTH. Regards. Roger.

I don't think there is a search facility here anglersnet but I bet it is covered somewhere, otherwise try http://www.google.co.uk and enter “zig rig” including the quotes. There are numerous permutations so you can develop your own technique if you are not comfortable with what you see. Hope this helps. Roger.

Have a look at a Zig Rig as well. It has the advantage that it is a different presentation and can work where the carp have got wise to line floating on the surface. It can also be adjusted to fish under the surface which can be an advantage when there are bait nicking birds about! :mad: I am still experimenting with the various ways that the zig can be implemented but I reckon that it is worth sticking with. Regards. Roger.

Are you saying that you kept feeding them and eventually they all went away and stayed away, nothing, no ducks, swans or anything that nick surface baits, is that the answer?? Roger.

Just out of interest how many of you have PB’s that were caught off or near the surface as opposed to fishing on or near the bottom?

So effectively I use the PVA string to buy time while I tighten up. Is that right?

I have been using a Zig Rig recently fished on a simple running ledger. Trouble is the last visit to my fishery revealed that it had become a duck heaven , not to mention the swans and various other bait nicking birds :mad: . With my simple setup I am normally able to pull the bait under the water once I have tightened up, but the situation yesterday was that the ducks were waiting for it most of the time and when they weren’t and I thought I could sneak one in, I was invariably dismayed to see a flock of them, their legs paddling so fast they were virtually walking on the water, heading straight for my bait. So it became a race between them and me getting the bait under before they got there. Funny when I won (they really do look confused), but a tad annoying when I lost - probably evens over the day. Anyway what I propose to do is move from the ‘running’ zig to a fixed setup which puts the bait a couple of feet down immediately it hits the water . Trouble is I have never used fixed rigs but know they can be dangerous to fish. At the moment on my simple running ledger I use one mini ledger stop. They slide fairly easy so would using something like that as the depth stop be safe or should I use something else? The water is about 6 feet and I don’t want my rig to get too complicated. If this is not ok can anyone point me in the right direction please? Regards. Roger.

Just out of interest how do you deal with birds? The water I fish is inundated with ducks, swans etc and it makes surface fishing really difficult. Maybe not quite such a problem with mixers but I like to use to bread and trying to get that out the way normally just leaves its behind!! :mad: :mad:

Yeh, thanks though!I think there is a trend developing here Roger.

Ok, thanks for the replies. Roger.

Can it be made to float?Cheers. Roger.