The Flying Tench

Thanks everyone. It looks as if I'm doing more or less what Ken and Keith are doing which is vaguely encouraging, and I've ordered some of the bead type links. Ken, that's an interesting idea having the float stop up the line to act as a bolt rig if needed. Does that work for smaller fish such as roach? Keith, the fact that you usually use a link ledger implies you don't often use a feeder. Is there any particular reason for that? Martin, the quick change bead is interesting, but I'll stick with what I partly know for now.

What rig do you use for ledgering, feeder etc? I used to use a John Roberts ledger boom John Roberts Feeder Booms 4 cm/1.5" | eBay but found the line sometimes got caught up round the boom which stopped the line running freely. So I dispensed with the boom and just used a snap swivel. This often works OK, but on some days for some reason the swivel and the snap swivel get snarled up somehow, time after time. Today was such a day! I have a friend who doesn't use any swivels. I guess what he uses is a paternoster, really. He just ties an extra bit of line onto the main line and uses that for the feeder. I keep telling myself to switch to that method, but I don't find the relevant knots easy. What do you do?

Ken - thanks - the extra length was what I hadn't realised. Re Martin's point about big fish, is it any different with a whip compared to a pole?

As I understand it a whip is a short pole and you fish it with the line out roughly the length of the rod, so you can swing in little fish easily. But you can do that anyway with a rod and reel, and you've got the option of, for example, casting much further if you wish. So why use a whip?

Thanks, Tigger. I did some experimenting today on a calm lake just a couple of rod lengths out. I quite see your point about choppy water, but in calm conditions I found a dumpy waggler easier to see than a pole float, though I was just about able to see both. It may be something to do with my eyesight where I find it difficult to focus with both eyes together. And there was an additional factor that I don't understand. I was fishing up in the water with hemp and caster. Bites with this type of fishing are always fast, but I found the bites with the pole float were super-fast. I couldn't hit them at all! I don't know if anyone knows why they should be faster with the pole float?

You assumed right, my question was really about rivers. It was S63 who mentioned tench. Thanks for your suggestions.

Thanks, Ian. Wow, Benwick Sports does indeed have a good selection. I'll go to them when I've researched a bit more with one or two floats I've got but never used. One of them is a 'drift beater' with a very fine antenna but then a hefty orange bit right at the top which would be very visible. The fish would feel no resistance until it came to the orange bit hitting the water, so I'd have to strike before that happened. Why do you prefer a long relatively thin sight tip rather than a short more dumpy one?

Thanks, Martin. That's interesting. I've always assumed that to see at a distance a round red blob is better than a thin line as in a pole float. But it might not be so. The eye and brain may be good at picking up straight lines. Actually I've got a pole float I've never used. I'll try it, and if it has prospects I'll get one or two paste pole floats. But it raises an interesting question. Why are the antennae of pole floats so long and thin? With some stick floats you have only about 3mm of float tip above the water, but the radius of the tip is quite large, maybe 8mm. But with a pole float there may be 20mm above the water but with a very thin radius, maybe 2mm. Why is one better than the other?

I fully agree, but even 2 rod lengths out can be tricky for me if there's ripple on the water and it's dusk or a dull day.

Thanks, Ian. Yes, a clear pic of the float John

I'm probably not alone in finding that, as I get older, I can't see the float so well. Can anyone recommend a very visible float? I fished today with a big stick float that takes 12 number 10 shot. I could just about see it, but I suspect I would have caught better if it had been a lighter float, but still with a BIG coloured bit on the top. Any thoughts?

That's comforting, Ayjay, that your float-fishing friends still catch well when they switch to feeder. But, as I think you are saying, that's probably because they switch to feeder when the conditions are right for it - which is doubtless when the roach are already feeding on the bottom. The question for me is whether, when they are happily feeding in mid water, putting in groundbait via a feeder or bait dropper will be enough to change their behaviour. When I look at the results some Thames anglers are getting in the summer on float, and compare them with my own (and other anglers I see) results on feeder, I'm coming to the conclusion that it will only affect it a bit. For example, a few years ago I was catching on hemp and tares. I thought to myself that the fish wouldn't be catching all the feed in mid water, and it must be accumulating on the bottom. So I switched to ledger. Zilch. They wanted a falling bait.

I fish the middle Thames, though have never really felt I've got the hang of it. I don't have perfect eyesight so, since it is a wide river, I normally fish the feeder, trying to cast to the edge of the main flow. My main target is roach, but to say I don't 'bag up' would be an understatement! I see plenty of other anglers fishing the same way as I do, and they don't 'bag up' either! But I am a member of Littlemore A.S. and have just had a look at their match results for a couple of recent years to see what method and bait the winning anglers used. This is just for their main water at Sandford, which has a very good head of roach. I have ignored the winter, when few roach were caught anyway. To my astonishment no summer or early autumn match was won on feeder. They were always won on 'waggler', and from late July to late September this was usually with hemp and caster or hemp and tares - and the catches were predominantly roach, I assume up in the water. Phew! It is no surprise some of the matches were won this way, but it has taken me back a bit that none were won by feeder, the method that many Thames anglers use. How does it compare with your local river? I guess I'm going to have to change my tactics, though it won't be easy as I find it hard to see a float more than a couple of rod lengths out. Any comments welcome.

Fished a new stretch of the Thames for a couple of hours this morning. Spent most of the time fishing feeder with double caster on the hook, just 3 rod lengths out. Just caught gudgeon plus a couple of very small roach. Then I switched to 4mm carp pellet and, for the last 10 minutes or so, cast out into the flow and had a 3lb 7oz bream. Not big by Thames standards, but it was actually the best Thames bream I have had, so I was very pleased.

Congratulations, Simon. By the sound of it, given the conditions, a successful trip!

It must be a pain to have to use 12lb bs, but I can't see the colour would make any difference. Re the hook length, as I understand it the reason carp anglers use braid is that they reckon the fish is more likely to feel the line than see it. Someone please say If I've got the wrong end of the stick, but I think there are different types of braid. There is the stuff you use for the main line, which has a low diameter but is not specially soft. I suspect the stuff they use for hook lengths has a bigger diameter, but is very soft so the carp won't feel it. Personally, if you're not after monster carp I'd have thought monofil would be your best bet.

Despite much planning and useful advice from people on AN, tackle shop managers and anglers I met, my long awaited trip to the Bournemouth/Christchurch area yielded little in terms of fish. Tuesday evening: Royalty Fishery on the Avon. Wow, what a lovely river! Trotting wasn't possible because the flow required being able to see the float further than my eyes will manage, but I tried double caster with a feeder. Several nice dace of about 5 oz, and then BANG! At first I thought it was a massive barbel, but on reflection it was clearly a pike. It was certainly a double, and could have been a high double. I had him on for about 10 minutes before inevitably he broke me. Still, an exciting start, though I didn't have any more dace after that. Wednesday: Top end of tidal Stour. Went for a recce late morning/early afternoon. This was a stretch recommended by some anglers I met, and was supposed to be good for roach, but it didn't work out for me. Access was tricky for someone with a dicey back. Weed was a bigger problem. I went back to the tackle shop to get a ticket elsewhere for the evening, but alas it was his half day. Doh! Thursday. Visited Mudeford Quay. Took the ferry across to the sandbanks for old times sake, which allowed the tidal flow to drop enough for a quick sea-fish with frozen sand eels. Bass were the target for all the anglers there, and I suppose that included me. Apparently the bacon used by the children crab fishing attracts the bass. But i didn't catch and nor did anyone else while I was there. In the afternoon and evening I fished Christchurch Quay, which is at the bottom end of the tidal Stour. Apparently there are good roach and bream as well as estuary fish such as sea trout and mullet. There are many boats moored, making it a kind of flowing marina. No-one else was fishing. On maggot or caster I just got tiny dace. When I switched to bread an a size 10 hook I got some 'nibbles.' Could these be some un-hittable mullet bites? In the end I decided small dace were more likely culprits. Friday: I planned to pay another visit to the Royalty before driving back, but then the morning proved so hot and sunny I decided there was no point and headed home. An enjoyable break, but if I try the Christchurch area again I think I'll leave it till autumn.

Thanks, Tigger, that's encouraging. It sounds as if tidal rivers can be good in most states of the tide.

When fishing the sea I understand the best time is the last 3 hours before high tide. But is it the same when you're fishing a tidal river? I've watched a couple of videos which half imply the best time is just after high time. Any views?

Thanks for the video, Martin. I understand the principle of how the lift method works, but it didn't work for me in practice recently. It occurs to me that, for a lift to occur, if the bottom shot is 3 inches from the bait and is just touching the bottom, then the fish has to move the bait at least 3 inches upwards to get a lift. That strikes me as quite a lot. If the fish goes sideways with the bait there will be no lift, but there will be a dip. Equally, if the bottom shot is 10 inches from the bottom and the fish moves (say) 6 inches upwards and only a little sideways there will be no bite registered at all. So am I right that it all depends on how the particular species moves after picking up a bait - and this might vary with the type of bait?

Thanks, both of you. Tigger, presumably your mention of the starlight means you were using a waggler float as a controller?

I had a crack at this today for the first time in my life. I think I got the set-up OK. I fished two maggots in 6 feet of water, close to the bank. The problem was that I didn't get lift bites! Bites were frequent, but they were conventional 'going under' ones, not lifts. The fish were roach. I'm wondering if it works better with certain baits, possibly bigger ones? Or with certain species? Can anyone advise on this?

Has anyone had any success with this? I had a crack today with dark caster. I had one caster on the hook plus a bit of rig-foam that I hoped looked like a bright red caster. It just about worked OK, but I had more success with a conventional float approach with the bait fished very shallow. I'm wondering whether to try floating pellet.

Thanks for clarifying, Ayjay.

Thanks, Martin and others. Not sure I'm dedicated enough, but interesting to know how you do it!