Nightwing

Otters, Mink, Osprey, Eagles, herons, kingfishers, cormorants, all eat fish, all are relatively common along our streams and lakes here. None have any measurable effect on the fisheries. There needs to be a place availabe for the predators out there, less you might as well just fish in a stocked pond. The other post indicated the otters were released in a local region, one I assume has a few lakes? Even in just a couple of lakes, or a single river, so few otters(16) could hardly destroy the population. An otter takes relatively small fish, and is not going to kill big carp, it will go for the smaller fish in the lakes and streams. It sound to me like a case of "all predators are bad, the only good predator is a dead one" syndrome that had been at fault in destroying so many animal populations. We, as stuards of the wildlife and country side, need to outgrow this old fashiond belife system, and realise that we might have to share a few fish in order for the whole of the outoors to be healhy. I have had wolves come up to within 100 feet of me while hunting, yet, had no thougts of destroying them even though they may take a deer I was hunting. I was glad to be able to share a hunt with them, and know through it that we have not completely turned the entire planted into the caricature of what it once was. Killing otters just because they take the odd fish will do more than you can possibly imagine to end your fishing. Once you "prove" there are not enough fish for a few otters, how do you defend your own right to fish the obviously sick and deplted ecosystem? [ 23 March 2002, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Nightwing ]

For whatever reason, this subject is a sore spot with me, even though I have the luxury of an ocean, and a very different culture, as a buffer. I never ceases to amaze me, the aparent animosity between the fishing and shooting sports over there. Here, even if we chose a particular aspect of outdoor life to persur, we almost to a person support our brothers and sisters in other outdoor sports. We have a number of organizations dedicated to single minded pursuits, yet, many of those are alligned in larger, wider organizations. Here in Michigan, we have the MUCC(Michigan United Concervation Clubs), as well as several other large organizations, which gather the resources to fight attacks upon any of our respective activities. Several years ago, when PETA and others tried to ban bear hunting here, in a matter of days there were several hundred seperate organizations, representing over a million sportman and woman, organized and fighting under the umbrella of these larger groups. Money from such diverse groups as fly fisherman, hikers, bird hunters, all made its way into the fight for a sport practiced by less than 5,000 people here yearly. We put aside our personal preferences, and did not take tha attitude that "its not my sport" I see here, nor did we even consider that defending a less popular sport(bear hunting with dogs) may "drag us down" with it. We helped the bear hunters because we saw in them the begining of the push to end all hunting and fishing here, and because it was just the right thing to do. Peta thought that here was and easy target, a foot in the door, one they could use as a lynchpin for further encroachment onto, and eventual elimination of, our priveleges of hunting and fishing. An intense and expensive pro-hunting campaing quickly came up to speed, including TV adds, rallys(over 75,000 people rallyed on the steps of our capital building, again, for a sport practiced by about 5,000 state wide!), widespread dissemination of information, and lots of negative PETA information and adds. All in all, several million dollars was spent by the pro hunting side, spearheaded by the big multi-activity groups. Bottom line result? In a state with 5,000 bear hunters, over 700,000 people, representing over 80% of the vote total, voted to keep it legal, and the anti's have not mounted a serious campaing of any type here since. So, regardless of your personal feelings about hunting, shooting, fishing, you need to organize and fight as one. If you let them take out the easy, less popular aspects of the countryside life, you will one day find fishing standing alone, and protrayed as an outdated and brutal remider of the past. They will get you then, so do something now!

If I'm not fishing I am often hunting(that should make me popular with some here).

If I'm not fishing I am often hunting(that should make me popular with some here).

Nice picture you painted there Peter. Anyone trying to fish here today would have met with nearly impossible conditions. Trust me, I was fool enough to get up at 3 this morning, and drive over to the river to fish. I did not even bother getting out of the jeep, once I saw the river. Last week, we had nearly 30" of snow, which nearly all melted in less than a day between yesterday and last night, because of a warm front with heavy rain. This icy run-off has put our local rivers at flood stage, roiling coffe brown water, filled with assorted trees, huge chunks of ice, and the occasional remains of a riverside house. Now today, just to make things interesting, we had a very strong cold front go through, and the temperature droped by nearly 30° in only 2 hours! On top of that, winds are steady at 45mph, gusting to 65 mph, and the wind chill is at -10° F. Oh, and the rain has changed back into snow, and we are having intermintent white-outs, with up to a half foot of new snow to fall. And our pike are still locked under a foot of ice on the lakes. But, we have no closed season, and its only a month or so until spring, so all is good with the world.:-)

Nice picture you painted there Peter. Anyone trying to fish here today would have met with nearly impossible conditions. Trust me, I was fool enough to get up at 3 this morning, and drive over to the river to fish. I did not even bother getting out of the jeep, once I saw the river. Last week, we had nearly 30" of snow, which nearly all melted in less than a day between yesterday and last night, because of a warm front with heavy rain. This icy run-off has put our local rivers at flood stage, roiling coffe brown water, filled with assorted trees, huge chunks of ice, and the occasional remains of a riverside house. Now today, just to make things interesting, we had a very strong cold front go through, and the temperature droped by nearly 30° in only 2 hours! On top of that, winds are steady at 45mph, gusting to 65 mph, and the wind chill is at -10° F. Oh, and the rain has changed back into snow, and we are having intermintent white-outs, with up to a half foot of new snow to fall. And our pike are still locked under a foot of ice on the lakes. But, we have no closed season, and its only a month or so until spring, so all is good with the world.:-)

Ronan, actualy lead shot is illegal here in the states now for use on any waterfowl. That is why steel and other lead substituts came into use, for the duck and goose hunters. Lead is still used for unpland and pass shooting, but again, is quite illegal for waterfowl. This is a federal mandate, as the feds set the basic laws and rules for any migratory species. Like in the U.K., this came about from fears of lead poisoning in waterfowl.

Ronan, actualy lead shot is illegal here in the states now for use on any waterfowl. That is why steel and other lead substituts came into use, for the duck and goose hunters. Lead is still used for unpland and pass shooting, but again, is quite illegal for waterfowl. This is a federal mandate, as the feds set the basic laws and rules for any migratory species. Like in the U.K., this came about from fears of lead poisoning in waterfowl.

Vagabond, Cortland, Scientific Anglers, Orvis, all do neutral color floating lines. I have a cortland floating multi-tip in slate grey which has 4 different tips,(floating, neutral boyant clear, med. sink and fast sink) The slate is perfect because it blends into most backgrounds.

"Designer" camo has been all the rage in the hunting market for going on 20 years now(started with Jim Crumly and TreeBark). We have a couple of dozen companies competing in the market, with the big ones being RealTree and MossyOak. Treebark(which started the high end camo craze), Predator, ASAT, Natagear, and a host of others are also in the mix, so here you can get a pattern to match up with any concievable background(and a number of inconcievable ones as well). If Realtree Hardwoods is just coming out, it means you are about 2-3 years behind us in new patterns(Hardwoods was intoduced here in spring of 1999). Also, 3-D designes in all major patterns are all the rage now.

"Designer" camo has been all the rage in the hunting market for going on 20 years now(started with Jim Crumly and TreeBark). We have a couple of dozen companies competing in the market, with the big ones being RealTree and MossyOak. Treebark(which started the high end camo craze), Predator, ASAT, Natagear, and a host of others are also in the mix, so here you can get a pattern to match up with any concievable background(and a number of inconcievable ones as well). If Realtree Hardwoods is just coming out, it means you are about 2-3 years behind us in new patterns(Hardwoods was intoduced here in spring of 1999). Also, 3-D designes in all major patterns are all the rage now.

Interesting. Ous licenses here also go April 1 to April 1, and even if you buy a license on mar. 30, you pay the whole bit. We do, however have daily, licences for those who may only go out once or twice in a year. I have heard no one complain here, as we just buy a new one each year around the first of April. BTW, I have to ask, but what is a TV license? Please don't tell me your government acualy requires you to get a license to own a television(I am sure this must be something different).

Interesting. Ous licenses here also go April 1 to April 1, and even if you buy a license on mar. 30, you pay the whole bit. We do, however have daily, licences for those who may only go out once or twice in a year. I have heard no one complain here, as we just buy a new one each year around the first of April. BTW, I have to ask, but what is a TV license? Please don't tell me your government acualy requires you to get a license to own a television(I am sure this must be something different).

Oh, In case of mass escape, make sure you have some resonable excuse already prepared, as the sight of a 6" leech crawling accross the floor at 3 in the morning is guaranteed to awaken every person in a 3 mile radius, 6 miles if the missus steps on it in the dark.

Oh, In case of mass escape, make sure you have some resonable excuse already prepared, as the sight of a 6" leech crawling accross the floor at 3 in the morning is guaranteed to awaken every person in a 3 mile radius, 6 miles if the missus steps on it in the dark.

Phone, I think the "illegao" leches may be of a more human variety, if I got the context of the statement right:-) For the rest of you, here is an easy and effecient way to collect leeches. Find a slow or weedy area on a stream, or a muck bottom area of a pond, and put out a trap a few feet from shore, in a couple of feet of water. Trap is simple, just take a plastic milk jug and place inside severel pieces of fresh(bloody), beef scrap, available cheaply from your local butcher. Add a few rocks for weight, fill with water, attach a rope to the handle, and toss in. Leave it overnight, make sure to check it every day. The leeches are attracted to the blood, go into the bottle, and attach themselves to the meat. Your should have several dozen leeches in the jug the next morning. Just cut the top off(for ease of leech removal), and there you go! Place the leeches in a shallow container in the frige with just enough water to cover them(or even just on soaking wet spagnum moss with a bit of water in the container), and make sure-This is very important-to change the water every day! If leeches are kept on wet moss, just run clean water through them on occasion, leaving the moss soaked, but little if any standing water in the container(leeches kept in soaked moss can go several days between washings). The leeches need not be fed(actualy, it is harmfull to feed them), and will last for months if their water/moss is kept clean. You now are the proud owner of the worlds finest perch bait! A leech suspended under a float is about the deadliest bait known, and best of all, will last through several fish!

Phone, I think the "illegao" leches may be of a more human variety, if I got the context of the statement right:-) For the rest of you, here is an easy and effecient way to collect leeches. Find a slow or weedy area on a stream, or a muck bottom area of a pond, and put out a trap a few feet from shore, in a couple of feet of water. Trap is simple, just take a plastic milk jug and place inside severel pieces of fresh(bloody), beef scrap, available cheaply from your local butcher. Add a few rocks for weight, fill with water, attach a rope to the handle, and toss in. Leave it overnight, make sure to check it every day. The leeches are attracted to the blood, go into the bottle, and attach themselves to the meat. Your should have several dozen leeches in the jug the next morning. Just cut the top off(for ease of leech removal), and there you go! Place the leeches in a shallow container in the frige with just enough water to cover them(or even just on soaking wet spagnum moss with a bit of water in the container), and make sure-This is very important-to change the water every day! If leeches are kept on wet moss, just run clean water through them on occasion, leaving the moss soaked, but little if any standing water in the container(leeches kept in soaked moss can go several days between washings). The leeches need not be fed(actualy, it is harmfull to feed them), and will last for months if their water/moss is kept clean. You now are the proud owner of the worlds finest perch bait! A leech suspended under a float is about the deadliest bait known, and best of all, will last through several fish!

Following up on the slug thread, anyone here use leeches? Very popular here in the states, but I never hear of you guys using them. Killer on walleye(zander), perch(best bait there is for perch), carp, bass, panfish, trout, well, you get the picture. If I only had a single bait to use, it would be a leech.

Following up on the slug thread, anyone here use leeches? Very popular here in the states, but I never hear of you guys using them. Killer on walleye(zander), perch(best bait there is for perch), carp, bass, panfish, trout, well, you get the picture. If I only had a single bait to use, it would be a leech.

Many lakes, and almost all rivers in me area have otters, and they are harmless to a healthy fish population. However, as I have learned here, my area with its generaly large populaion of wild fish, is quite different than yours, so I don't know how this would effect a containded, semi-domestic population. We are allowed to trap otters here(they are a relatively common animal here), so on the rare occasion that they get into a fish farm or something, and do cause problems, they can be removed if needed. Most of the time they are live trapped and removed to a remote location. This is easy with a single otter, but much more difficult if a family needs to be removed(otters mate long term, and the young require a fairly long upbringing, so trapping one usualy requires trapping the whole family.) Good luck.

Many lakes, and almost all rivers in me area have otters, and they are harmless to a healthy fish population. However, as I have learned here, my area with its generaly large populaion of wild fish, is quite different than yours, so I don't know how this would effect a containded, semi-domestic population. We are allowed to trap otters here(they are a relatively common animal here), so on the rare occasion that they get into a fish farm or something, and do cause problems, they can be removed if needed. Most of the time they are live trapped and removed to a remote location. This is easy with a single otter, but much more difficult if a family needs to be removed(otters mate long term, and the young require a fairly long upbringing, so trapping one usualy requires trapping the whole family.) Good luck.

How very confusing! Here in the States, in almost every case, landowners own the land up to the bank, but not the river or the bottom, or the fishing rights. All waters here are public domain, and if you can get access(via bank, launch, boat, or wading), you may fish any waters. In theory, even small farm ponds may be fished, if any access is available(copter, maybe?). All fish in any accessable waters are owned by the general public, and are subject only to state law. Most lakes, and virtualy every river, have multiple access points, and the use of boats allows anyone to fish nearly any part of said lakes or rivers. Even without a boat, you can wade the rivers, or the lake shorlines, and fish where you want. The great thing about all this is it makes access and fishing a sport for all people, not just those who can afford an expensive lease. And, even the very best waters are there for anyone who wants to fish them.

How very confusing! Here in the States, in almost every case, landowners own the land up to the bank, but not the river or the bottom, or the fishing rights. All waters here are public domain, and if you can get access(via bank, launch, boat, or wading), you may fish any waters. In theory, even small farm ponds may be fished, if any access is available(copter, maybe?). All fish in any accessable waters are owned by the general public, and are subject only to state law. Most lakes, and virtualy every river, have multiple access points, and the use of boats allows anyone to fish nearly any part of said lakes or rivers. Even without a boat, you can wade the rivers, or the lake shorlines, and fish where you want. The great thing about all this is it makes access and fishing a sport for all people, not just those who can afford an expensive lease. And, even the very best waters are there for anyone who wants to fish them.