phonebush

Bruno, Give me a little time. I'll start a new thread. Phone

Fred, I've always been able to look stupid without a cap. Phone

Bruno, Have you seen the recent Wisconsin SVC story? Of course, their worry was not with the 100,000+ tones of carp that died. WI's worry was with other fish in the minnow family that support their predator industry. I believe the WI case is the first reported SVC in the US (?) Phone

I should add, the presents of fish was also helpful. Phone

All, When I used to fish for predators, before I discovered carp, I was convinced silloette and flash were the two most important factors whether using live, dead or artifical. Phone

John E., The old gentlemen were a stereotype of our everyday carp anglers. The guys collecting bait are an example of our "good ole boys" and every alligator has to watch out for itself against them. Phone

I thought it was perhaps a picture of days long past in the UK. Hard for us in the US to get a mental image of fishing without our Huck Finns. All the more reason we should try to protect our bountiful and valuable resources, Huck certainly can't do it for himself. Phone

By far the most wide spread angler in the US is what we call "Huck Finn" anglers. They have $20.00 worth of gear, a dozen nightcrawlers, a wife and 4 or 5 kids, always meat fish and certainly no angling code of respect. They represent well over 2/3 of government angling revenue and are encouraged to "bring out the family for a day of fishing and fun". In the US, as yet, there is still plenty of shore line to accomodate both the serious angler and the "Huck Finns" My question, where do the Huck Finns fit into the UK angling equation? From experience, what can we expect? Phone

Woodzzz, Sorry to have caused you all the consternation. I understood you perfectly on your first expaination. It is the bass fishermen in the US that fit your description. Many outfits, including boats, exceed $50,000 and no more know how to catch a fish than my lovely bride (who has never fished). Here too, it is easy to generalize everyone into one catagory but I understand your humor. Phone

poledark, I'm not sure I understand. Was the huge pike that you lost due to knot slippage on mono or on braid? I have never seen any knot slip on braid - any. Phone

Woodzzz "There's a difference between angling, and sitting there looking like an idiot" I quite successfully do both. Am I a dicotomy on water? Phone

Bruno and All, I read something about heavy metals and liver failure in carp beyond the breeding age. Has anyone else seen a paper on this subject - heavy metals? Phone

Vagabond, We agree, the line should break within a smidge of the knot on the line side. I am not sure this is true of braids however. Since there is no stretch when tightening the knot I would be inclined to just say "at the weakest point beyond the knot". Do you know for sure that this is consistantly where braid will break with regularity? Why? Phone

Vagabond, Poledark, I am curious. Did the knot turn loose or did the line break behind the knot? I do not believe I have ever seen a knot "turn loose" with braid tests, even a half hitch with the tag end ran under the doubled line. The diameter of the ring has a great deal to do the the bend of the line. A larger ring improves braid strength geometrically. Also tests can be flawed when the line is tested at the end of the circle in a ring. The line doubled should not break at the knot but at the weakest point in the length. Phone PS I do not like braid for reasons not related to breaking strength or knot strength. I like the stretch afforded by an inexpensive technically sound mono

I would like to add another dimention. Actually the most visible reflected light at depths (I've been told) are white and silver. I'm not sure if these can be considered colors for this discussion however. Phone

Has anyone ever ever experienced knot failure with a braided line? Any knot? Phone I have not seen it.

david P, America was a quite lovely place until WE came along. It is always a matter of who's ox was gored. Phone

Gaffer, Other than the fact you slip the hook through the loop both are simple overhand knots (?). Phone

Leon, I know circumstances are different in the UK. I too will make this my last comment. Pain is such a difficult word in the first place. If one is to narrow it to the sensation of any physical discomfort occurring as the result of injury then maybe fish feel pain. If on the other hand pain is a state of discomfort that occurs as mental suffering caused by a physical stimuli then absoulty they cannot feel pain. Fish have no verbs. Phone

Mally, The light travels down the flurocarbon line as is reflected by the water. Flurocarbon is an excellent carrier of UV light that is outside the human spectrum. Newt, Unfortunately these tank tests were never published for obvious commercial reasons. In fact, conclusions as to why(?) were argumentative. Carp were used as a control species while test results were more closely observed in various predatory species. Phone P.S. I do and will lie about angling, it is an American custom. This is, however, true.

When frustrated just tie 3 or 4 doubled overhand knots. Makes for quite a wad but it is unlikely to come untied with braid. While never is a strong word I would be inclined to say when wetted it will never come untied. BTW a polomer is an overhand knot. Phone

Leon, I agree "seeing" is anthropomorphic. Having said that it is likely fish see only blue below a certain depth (I'd buy 6 ft.). Two reasons, one in the human view light is dispursed as it gets deeper leaving only the UV spectrum. Second, the rods of fishes (including carp) generate electrical response to blue and beyond with the proper cue. BTW shrimp are thought to have the broadest spectrum of vision rods Regarding fluorcarbon line - whether fish respond to the light transfered is at issue. Fluorcarbon does transfer or carry UV light outside the human spectrum for compairative great distances. In a test tank of a reputable line manufacturer in Iowa fluorcarbon line hung vertically along with other lines was always avoided by fish. No one knows for sure exactly why, I think it way because it was more visible. The test was repeated numerous times in both clear and semi-clouded water. Phone

Yes, blue only. They also see much deeper into the UV color spectrum than humans. Also, as an added note they see fluorcents better than humans. In fact, flurocarbon line can be seen in the water much better than regular mono. Flurocarbons act like optic light cable to fish. Phone

I would like two choices. One, like most sporting mags in the US with short articles and lots of pics suited to be read in the crapper while concentrating on more important matters. Another, more technical in depth issue, perhaps quarterly. The problem I see with the more technical issue is that there is just so much you can say about angling's technical information. I mean, a fish is a fish is a fish and they live in water. (Well maybe not?) Phone

Leon, I like the extraordinary well thought out style you use to make the issues understandable. The more fundamental question is the why. Why do we need to know if fish feel pain? It is, by a huge margin, morally acceptable to fish, pain or no pain. Inflicting pain is a moral issue. Until the preponderance of a given participating society finds an activity or practice unacceptable, individual judgment or government should/can not impose effective laws based on morality. Laws should dictate issues like on which side of the road to drive. For example, look at the immense failure the era of alcoholic beverage probation in the US had on a moral society. Or, inflicting pain on non-believers and back sliders was once the domain of the moral Church (before America’s time). Morality, to a large extent, changed Church practices. Certainly compared to the human condition fish do NOT have the capability to “reason” (i.e. either I choose this/or I choose that with consequences) if indeed they learn at all. How to inflict pain on a 50 lb carp based on reasoning is, for the most part left to humanity. Phone