No coarse fish in my local river

[Peter Gowman]

Just thinking out loud, but does anybody actually KNOW why there are no coarse fish in the rivers of west Wales. My local river is the Teifi, there are apparently some Grayling in the very upper reaches, other than that just Brown Trout, Sewin (sea trout) and the odd Salmon.

Compared to the River Itchen, where I learnt to fish at the age of five it is positively barren.

[darrell.cook]

Peter, you seem to be the reversal of myself!

I came from Wales (S.E.) and now live in Southampton.

To be honest most rivers would seem barren compared with the Itchen!

I can't answer your question, so what can you tell me about the Itchen and other local venues.

I've fished the Itchen along Chickenhall Lane and think it's fantastic, so good in fact that I havn't fished anywhere else yet (I've only been here a few months).

[Peter Gowman]

Hi Darrell

You lucky man. What an area for fishing in, you're spoilt for choice. As far as the Itchen at Chickenhall is concerned, it is an excellent Grayling stretch with fish in excess of two pounds. In addition to the Grayling, there is trout (migratory and non migratory), a constant run of salmon, and I have caught the following from that stretch Roach, Perch, Dace, Chub, Carp, Pike (there are some surprisingly big pike for such a small river), eels (of course), gudgeon, flounder, (seriously, there are small flounder in that stretch). Also, not in that stretch but slightly lower (six arches) I have caught a barbel. If you have the correct licence, the Salmon fishing is first class. In my experience a good Toby lure (predominantly silver) has been the most succesful method.

I would be happy to answer any other specific questions.

Good luck with the fishing.

 

[ 14. January 2003, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Peter Gowman ]

[craig mason]

in my localaty in north derbyshire the river fishing is very poor because of all the old mine workings discharging into them :mad: i have contacted the ea on numerous occasions to see what they are doing about it but i only get the same answer every time . So if you want to go fishing round here then there is only a handfull of still water fisheries to choose fromand the best one that i have found is barlow lakes

[Duncan]

hi Peter,

I think its one of these Danube Basin (Rhine/Rhone) & Ice Age things.

 

Fish, lets call them the coarse fish, were trapped in UK eastern flowing rivers by the formation of the North Sea ( UK eastern flowing rivers were thought to be trbutaries of the Rhine? )so consiqently they have species of fish that were in that system.

West flowing rivers especially those protected by mountains were not connected to the Rhine/Rhone system therefore the fish specie contained in them did/could not populate these river systems.

 

The grayling in the Teifi will have been introduced at some stage.

 

hope that helps

 

Duncan

[Peter Gowman]

Thanks Duncan

That's perfectly logical and come to think of it I seem to remember something about that from my schooldays. But that was so very long ago.

Its surprising all the same that there are no other species in the Teifi. This being because the Teifi Pools, which are at the source of the river had a large monastery there and the monks bred fish for the table, and they were known to import different species for this purpose. Then again, maybe thats where the Grayling have come from.

[Guest sslatter]

Duncan:

hi Peter,

I think its one of these Danube Basin (Rhine/Rhone) & Ice Age things.

 

Fish, lets call them the coarse fish, were trapped in UK eastern flowing rivers by the formation of the North Sea ( UK eastern flowing rivers were thought to be trbutaries of the Rhine? )so consiqently they have species of fish that were in that system.

West flowing rivers especially those protected by mountains were not connected to the Rhine/Rhone system therefore the fish specie contained in them did/could not populate these river systems.

 

The grayling in the Teifi will have been introduced at some stage.

 

hope that helps

 

Duncan

Okay...I'm a layperson, but...wouldn't western-flowing welsh rivers and eastern-flowing irish rivers have entered the same ancient watercourse in those prehistoric times? If so, how come the eastern-flowing irish rivers are full of coarse fish, but the western-flowing welsh rivers aren't? Is it a water quality thing? Poor winter sustenance in the welsh rivers?

[Guest sslatter]

darrell.cook:

Peter, you seem to be the reversal of myself!

I came from Wales (S.E.) and now live in Southampton.

To be honest most rivers would seem barren compared with the Itchen!

I can't answer your question, so what can you tell me about the Itchen and other local venues.

I've fished the Itchen along Chickenhall Lane and think it's fantastic, so good in fact that I havn't fished anywhere else yet (I've only been here a few months).

…not forgetting some of the best unexplored mullet fishing spots in the south of england, and it’s all free fishing.

[Adz]

Graham X:

Is it a water quality thing? Poor winter sustenance in the welsh rivers?

Could be... it's certainly the oft repeated reason for the West Coast Welsh rivers having such good runs of sea trout - the habitat can't support the numbers of trout smolts so a good proportion run to the sea.

 

Trout, being predatory, will out compete and predate to extinction the other, coarse, fish which aren't able to tolerate a saline environment and therefore run to the sea to maintain their breeding stock.

 

Odd thing about the grayling though - you'd expect them to be in the same situation as the other coarse fish. Perhaps predation on the trout by man keeps the balance since the introduction of the grayling or possibly, and this could even be more likely, there were once coarse fish in the rivers but all fish including the trout were wiped out, either by pollution or some environmental change and the trout are the only ones able to recolonise thanks to their ability to run to sea?

 

Good topic this, very interesting!

[Guest sslatter]

Something else has just struck me...the same thing that seems to apply to Wales, also seems generally to apply to Ireland: The western-flowing irish rivers are not generally known for coarse fish, while the eastern-flowing ones are. Confusing... maybe it's a 'rate of descent' thing? The faster-flowing, and often shorter western-flowing rivers versus the slower-flowing and generally longer eastern-flowing ones?

The 'ancient Rhine/Rhone ice age' thing doesn't seem logical when the western-flowing welsh rivers and the eastern-flowing irish rivers must have originally drained into the same ancient watercourse, mustn't they?