How do you own a national river?

[phonebush]

UK'ers

 

Often you talk of someone (usually a group) having the right to a river.

How can anyone have the "right" to a river? Unless, of course, this group accepts the negative responsibilities of the river as well; along with the obvious privledges.

Seems somehow you Englishmen have gotten around English law.

In Missouri USA unless a stream begins and ends on your property the unregulated public has some limited access to that stream or river and its content.

Just wondering if there is a simple explaination.

Phone

[Guest Ferret1959]

Normally you only have the "Rights to Fish" the river. I think the river would belong to the land owner but I'm not sure on the law as the British water ways also have some thing to do with "Ownership/Rights" and Envroment Agency look after thr rivers.

But don't quote me on these things as I'm no expert.

[davidP]

ALL fishing on inland waters (ie non-tidal waters) is owned by someone. This will normally be the person who owns the land but over the centuries many rights have changed hands. The 'Fishing Rights' does not include any land but merely a 'right to fish and to take fish', and extends from the bank to the midpoint of the river. The fishing rights are a saleable commodity just as any other interest in land and can be utilized in just the same way. Hence it can be rented, leased or sold. Care has to be taken when buying or leasing to esure that correct rights of access have been granted - it's no good buying fishing rights if you have to trespass to use them! Rights are often sold with 1 yard of land and will normally include a right of access, a right to wade and a right to maintain the land so as to make it suitable for fishing.

 

Note that rights of Navigation are completely separate and on many rivers do not exist.

[davidP]

Nearly forgot, but the fish in a river are regarded as wild and are not owned. If you introduce stock fish to a river then you are deemed to be releasing them into the wild and immediately lose title to them.

 

Enclosed waters are different in that the owner of the fishing rights also owns the fish, and any fish released into the water become his property. Clubs that lease rights on enclosed waters should be extremely cautious when stocking because as soon as they release the fish into the water they no longer own them, and they have no recourse if the owner decides to up the price or lease to someone else at any point in the future, even if they've spent thousands on improving the fishery.

[Scott]

David, just to add to your bit. Im not a 100% on this but if you have/dont Riparian rights you own any fish stocked in to an enclosed water and so if leaving the water can remove the fish, this of course would be mentioned in any contract you would have when you initially leased the water.

 

Scott.

www.thefishingdirectory.co.uk

[davidP]

If you lease a water you do not own the fishing rights or the fish - you merely buy the right to fish. On this basis you would actually need to obtain not only a Section 30 from the EA but also the permission of the owner of the fishing rights before you could stock any fish into the water (unless specifically dealt with in the lease). And I've always been led to believe that as soon as they are relased into the water they become the property of the owner of the fishing rights (the riparian owner). Thus any club thinking of doing any improvemnts or restocking a water they rent should ensure from the start that they have made a written and legal agreement regarding what they can and can't do and what happens to the stocked fish. And don't skimp on the legal advice - it could save you a lot of money in the long run!

[Peter Waller]

Very basically, & I mean basically, if a river is tidal, e.g. the movement of water is both ways, and is the result of tidal flow from the sea, then a river is regarded as a navigable river, and nobody owns it, or the fish in it. All that can be owned is the bank & the bed of the river. And so it becomes even more confusing! Everyone has the right to fish a tidal water, except they might not have the right to lay their tackle on the bed of the river nor to anchor a boat to either the bed or the bank of the river. Also, since the banks might be privately owned, there may not be a right of access that allows an angler access to the water to fish it. Quite clear! Thankfully I live beside a tidal water & the deeds of my property grant me a right to fish it!

[Nightwing]

How very confusing!

Here in the States, in almost every case, landowners own the land up to the bank, but not the river or the bottom, or the fishing rights. All waters here are public domain, and if you can get access(via bank, launch, boat, or wading), you may fish any waters. In theory, even small farm ponds may be fished, if any access is available(copter, maybe?).

All fish in any accessable waters are owned by the general public, and are subject only to state law. Most lakes, and virtualy every river, have multiple access points, and the use of boats allows anyone to fish nearly any part of said lakes or rivers. Even without a boat, you can wade the rivers, or the lake shorlines, and fish where you want.

The great thing about all this is it makes access and fishing a sport for all people, not just those who can afford an expensive lease. And, even the very best waters are there for anyone who wants to fish them.

[Martin Godliman]

Hi Nightwing,

Access is everything here,I share a boat with a friend and I live near the Thames.There are some public launch sites but many old ones are obstructed deliberatly by the locals to prevent presumably people like me using them,even were you can just about get you boat in it's absolutly impossible to park your car/trailer any were nearby because of parking restrictions.If your boat is small enough to manhandle it's sometimes possible to launch were the road passes near the river and you can park near enough.

Martin

[adamg]

So, just to clarify if I bought a boat I could in theory fish any stretch of water in the UK as long as I can get lawful access to launch the boat and don’t trespass onto the land owners bank?

 

thanks,

 

Adam