Big Carp

[Nugg]

Golden Phoenix:

Hi I'm new to this forum, this may have been asked before but...

 

Are we being fair to Carp? As you may know Carp are bigger & heavier than ever before. Is this a Health risk to the fish? Do we over use Commercial, unnatural baits? Is the solution to restrict the use, the quantity, or the or the ingredients of these baits. Are we being selfish?

Steve

Thank's very much for your views on this topic, you put your points of view forward in what seemed to be an unbiased way, for which I thank you. It does however, reading very carefully, seem that you have answered the questions put forward by G P in the affirmative. Over stocking by "The vast majority if not all" commercial fisheries cannot be seen as healthy or fair on the fish. Could it not also be seen as selfish " If only to protect his investment" they have to rely on artificial feeding from anglers baits. You have restricted the use of nut's as a bait also, it seems for all the reasons raised by G P in his question.

Please do not take anything I have said here personally I may have misconstrued what you intended to say.

Once again thank you for the views of a professional

[Newt]

Nugg:

Nugg:

.... Are we being fair to Carp? ....

Nugg (and GP) - I am not at all sure that being "fair" to fish is an idea I can really understand.

 

Fair is pretty much a people idea and I really don't know how you could apply it to a totally alien species with a brain sized to mostly handle senses.

 

For one thing, it assumes a fish understands "fair". For another, it assumes we know what a fish might consider "fair".

 

I know from keeping fish in a tank at home and from watching them while diving and while fishing that I see behavior that comes across to me as calm and other behavior that seems aggitated (from stress of some sort).

 

Assuming that a fish prefers "calm", it seems to me that conditions in a puddle where they are well fed is acceptable to the fish.

[RED HILLBILLY]

Originally posted by singy:

[QB]There is a big differnect between UK and US carp. Most of our carp have been bred in the past for the table, this means faster, larger growing strains with fewer scales to make it easier to clean. i.e the mirror.

 

Interesting point you make, Singy. When I lived in England (left in 1975) the few carp I caught were nearly all mirrors. I have have caught hundreds of carp in the US. I am not the world's greatest fisherman but the fish are very easy to catch and numerous. All of the carp are common and look different to UK ones. They are longer for a given weight and fight like heck (mostly). Perhaps they are wildies. They also have a very hard first ray in the dorsal fin which has a serated rear edge. This gets tangled in my UK purchased knotless landing net and rips it.

 

Whilst on the subject where can I get a new net (24" dia., round fold up frame)? My old UK mate says they don't sell the type of net I need anymore because all the landing nets have 2 arms only with a stringy bit accross the front. Can anybody help?

 

Hillbilly.

[Steve Burke]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nugg:

It does however, reading very carefully, seem that you have answered the questions put forward by G P in the affirmative. Over stocking by "The vast majority if not all" commercial fisheries cannot be seen as healthy or fair on the fish. Could it not also be seen as selfish " If only to protect his investment" they have to rely on artificial feeding from anglers baits. You have restricted the use of nut's as a bait also, it seems for all the reasons raised by G P in his question.

[/QB]

---

Up to a point I agree. However, I don't feel it's the baits that are so much of a problem as the unnatural stocking densities. It's interesting that on at least one occasion the EA has withheld consent to move fish on the grounds that the receiving water was already overstocked. Whether this is to become policy or whether it has the right to so I'm unsure about.

 

IMO a modest amount of overstocking is no problem. It's only when it's taken to the extreme that problems are likely to arise.

 

However, stocking policy is driven by angler demand. More and more anglers want to catch big bags of fish that are easy to catch and fight hard - preferably it seems in a weed-free water from the back of their car. Thus commercial fishery managers overstock their waters, mainly with carp as they're cormorant proof.

 

Who's therefore to blame - the fishery manager or the angler? BTW, I'm not trying to pick a fight here - just getting some of you thinking.

[Jim Roper]

All this talk of Carp in the wild growing to massive proportions!!!

How come we are constantly told, by the people who have fish for sale, that 'Wildies' rarely achieve weights of more than about 10 lb???

 

See you all on September 22nd http://www.march-info.org

 

Jim Roper

 

http://www.searchlineuk.com/FishList.htm

 

[ 30 May 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Jim Roper ]

[Steve Burke]

Although they're the same species, wildies are a different strain to the carp that are now in most of our waters.

 

These later fish were also originally bred for the table, but on the Continent where the aim was to reduce the number of scales to speed up preparation in the kitchen. This is why only a small proportion are common carp, i.e. covered with small scales. Eventually, after several generations all carp bred from these fish are likely to be commons. This is partly because of genetics and partly because common carp survive their first winter better than mirrors and leathers.

 

True wild carp are now pretty rare as so many waters have been stocked with modern varieties and the fish have cross-bred. Wild carp have the same scaling as modern common carp but are longer and leaner than the Continental fish. As a result they fight like the clappers! However, they rarely grow over 10lbs - more's the pity!

[cyprinid boy]

Never heard that theory before. You'll find every carp classed as a 'wildie' turns out to be male and this is why they do not exceed 10lbs+. Additionally, every time we visit a fishery these so called wildies are common carp!! Not so sure about this one.

 

Mat

[Jim Roper]

I think I might have started something now Elton.

 

Jim Roper

[Steve Burke]

cyprinid boy:

Never heard that theory before. You'll find every carp classed as a 'wildie' turns out to be male and this is why they do not exceed 10lbs+. Additionally, every time we visit a fishery these so called wildies are common carp!! Not so sure about this one.

 

Mat

Mat, are you suggesting every carp over 10lbs is a female?

[singy]

Mary, the old record was a male fish at 50lb plus. Male and female carp can grow to equal sizes.

 

'Wild' carp were a strain of carp originally brought over here by the monks and the romans. They rarely got into double figures, but could reach a max weight of 25lb. These were later replaced by a different strain of carp that was bigger and faster growing coming from Europe and Eastern Europe. Notably the 'leney' strain. These were the fish stocked into redmire.