umm....errr.....Hair rigging for Pike?

[Andy Macfarlane]

Has anyone tried a "Hair-rig" for Pike.Gawd knows where I saw it,maybe I actually had a dream about it...who knows but here goes.Instead of using trebles,a single sea-hook is attached to the trace with a length of strong cotton (digestable,you see?) running along,and from the hook shank.A deadbait is then tethered by the tail to this "hair" and cast out.Idea being that the Pike picks up a very natural looking bait,without feeling any hooks and takes it fairly safely into the mouth.Lastly the hook goes in somewhere closer to the lip.Hopefully when you strike,after timing this run to perfection of course,you will have a lip hooked pike with 5 less barbs and a stiched up gut to worry about.Any thoughts people?.....improvements or just solid criticism will be taken on board graciously

 

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[Richard Harvey]

Hi Andy,

It sounds a good idea . A single hook point has got to be easier to unhook than 2x trebles may be.

only thing i can think of is you may miss a lot more Pike if the Pike has just seized the bait across it's mouth and is sitting there with it.

Timeing 'Bait takes' for Pike will always raise a debate, i look at it this way: If the bait has moved then a Pike probably has it in it's mouth ,so all the time i give them is to tighten the line and strike!

I only bait fish a few times a year and so far not deep hooked Pike.

I could see your idea may suit the sleepy head people who take tents and beds etc ,but then we get into the 'Sleeping with lines out thing' where fish could possibly snag before you get to the rods .

But i'm getting off the point a bit, so i think it sounds a good idea in general.

[Newt]

I like the idea of almost any rig that uses single hooks.

 

As any who have been around here for long will know, I am a huge fan of circle and kahle hooks. 2 reasons mainly. First, they work. Good hook-up percentage if you don't try to "set" the hook. Next, they hook at or near the lip most times.

 

I know the conventional wisdom for bait & pike is that you need a treble hook. Because as "everybody" knows, you don't hook many on singles.

 

I'm reminded of thinking that was common in the US until fairly recently and still is with lots of folks about species for which you really need treble hooks - because you get very poor hook-up ratios with single hooks. Those species are catfish and carp.

 

With some lures I do have to admit to using double hooks (take the lure and cut one shaft/point off each treble) and to crushing the barb down. I may lose an occasional fish I would have landed with barbed trebles but I'm happy. I'd stick with singles but with a large-body lure, there is no way to know how the hook would present itself.

 

Not so with static dead baits or even with live baits. You can rig to give yourself a good chance of a hook point finding the mouth.

 

I saw a rig described recently that has promise and one I think I will try. Don't have a picture but will try to describe it.

 

Take two large snap swivels and sharpen the end of the snap section.

 

On your hook length, affix a snap swivel and just below it a hook tied so it points the opposite direction to the snap swivel. You will put the sharp end of the snap into the bait and want the hook pointing up after that is done.

 

For a larger bait, put a second swivel/hook pair lower down so you will have one near an end of the bait and the other at the opposite end.

 

Snap Swivel

[Mick]

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<font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Newt:

[QB]I like the idea of almost any rig that uses single hooks.

 

Don't have a picture but will try to describe it.

 

Take two large snap swivels and sharpen the end of the snap section.

 

On your hook length, affix a snap swivel and just below it a hook tied so it points the opposite direction to the snap swivel. You will put the sharp end of the snap into the bait and want the hook pointing up after that is done.

 

For a larger bait, put a second swivel/hook pair lower down so you will have one near an end of the bait and the other at the opposite end.

 

</font><hr />

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We call them VB's here in the UK Newt ...

 

Picture here .. cumbrian-angler.freeservers.com/tac...s/hooktypes.jpg

[Peter Waller]

Its been tried, and cast aside. Circle hooks have been tried, and cast aside. UK pikers are incredibly conservative when it comes pike rigs. VB and Circle hooks work well, in my experience, but hair rigs, don't know. Its one of those topics that rears its head every year or two, and eventually returns to obscurity. Pity, I'm sure there is room for greater research on the question of hair rigs.

['eelfisher']

Dear ALL

 

Been pike fishing for a few years now....many years infact, for one so young....and have used trebles in two's, trebles on their own and VB's and singels in tandem and on their own.......that was many many years ago now....I have only used singles for my pike fishing, Drennan Boiliee hooks in size one, for ages/years now.

 

Deadbaits...sea and coarse.....and livebaits....rivers, fen drains, lakes, ponds, gravel pits...the Lake District (not no more unfortunately).......never had a problem with using one single only.......the majority of runs converted to lip (scissor) hooked pike....those not hit in the scissor's were hooked in the mouth.....odd river pike has taken bait so quickly and been big enough to have hook in front throat area a few times (But river pike and livebaits brings about many fish and exciting, fast, engulfing takes)...those missed on instant strikes have always been seen by myself as one of those things....and not many of them either really.

 

Never seen the reason for hair-rigs for pike.....obviously I know about shy feeding pike...I have done a bit of piking....but always resort to fishing in the dark, or just before dawn, if the venue is a lake/pond/gravel pit.

 

Not had too many instances of shy pike because I fish for river pike exclusively now, as they are much more entralling targets.....for a start they fight a bit....(Lake District pike excluded in this comparison, OK)....when I have found them to be shy feeders.....fishing different times (into and out of darkness...dawn /dusk) has always come up trumps.

 

I have never slept whilst darkness piking.....now that is bad practice...hair or not.

 

Consider why you need to consider the hair and then re-evaluate your tactics or change the venue until the pike have been left alone for a while.

 

Hope my comments have installed some confidence in only using singles....and always a wire trace....and always use large forcepts...and have a glove with you if you are not ultra confident (I am but I STILL use a glove....just incase the fish decides to do something you are not prepared for.).....and in rivers, always apply the same rule for pike as you would for barbel....let them recover and release them when they are strong.

 

On the other hand....try the hair and see how you go......all that twaddling about in the cold though is time wasted when you could be catching pike....and messy on a hand that will be noshing some sarnies later in the day.

 

You could tie them all up at home but I suggest either going to the pub for a pint or making the missus happy with those working fingers....there are always shelves to be put up or walls to be painted....better still, stick to the pub.

 

Enjoy your predator fishing.....whilst WE can.

 

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

[Andy Macfarlane]

I don't drink and I have no problems whatsoever unhooking,or for that matter,hooking Pike.I actually don't need to re-evaluate my tactics.I think EVERYONE does.This treble set-up has been around for over a century and has'nt changed a bit.This gives the impression that it is foolproof or has stood the test of time.Actually it is'nt and has'nt.Pike are still regularly gut hooked.Not by me of course but I see them all the time.I only want to look into this because every part of the Pikers set-up has changed so radically over the years but the basic terminal rig is the same.Every part of the fishing fraternity has moved on leaps and bounds when it comes to the advance in set-up technology.Piking however seems to be left behind somewhere.I am not saying that this "hair-rig" method is going to change everything but I will look at every set-up possible that may or may not improve the hooking and unhooking of these brilliant fish.

[Andy_Davies]

Steve, would be interested to know how you rig up with singles, I have been using doubles for a couple of years now but would probably prefer to go down to singles. I find that occasionally when using a double hook it can get well stitched up in the scissors.

 

As for hair rigging, I was walking round Coombe abbey a couple of years ago and had a chat with Bob Moreton (in the AM quite often a few years back with big Zeds) and he explained how he rigged his livebaits - he would use a needle and tie the bait to the hook (cant recall treble single or what). His reason for this was to keep them alive for a long time. Oh yeh, he had a bait boat too so casting them wasnt an issue.

 

Andy

[Andy_Davies]

Steve, would be interested to know how you rig up with singles, I have been using doubles for a couple of years now but would probably prefer to go down to singles. I find that occasionally when using a double hook it can get well stitched up in the scissors.

 

As for hair rigging, I was walking round Coombe abbey a couple of years ago and had a chat with Bob Moreton (in the AM quite often a few years back with big Zeds) and he explained how he rigged his livebaits - he would use a needle and tie the bait to the hook (cant recall treble single or what). His reason for this was to keep them alive for a long time. Oh yeh, he had a bait boat too so casting them wasnt an issue.

 

Andy

['eelfisher']

Dear Andy No.1...(the thread poster)

 

Hope my comments didn't come over as if I were talking to you Re: pike fishing....I thought that you might be looking at the wider picture of pike welfare in the area of hooking in the best possible place...ie: the mouth and not in the gut.

 

I just thought that my words of comment would be read by others out there who probably do use several hook systems and also wait til their coffee/tea/ciggie is finished before hitting the run.....and who may have thought hair-rigs, they might give me some more time to get to the rods!!!

 

Understood that you were fine in all areas....sorry if this didn't come about with my post.

 

Nice one to expand on with others views being added....lets see what comes shall we.

 

Andy No.2....I lip hook all my lives when piking...keeps them alive longer.....natural presentation in rivers and a good position to draw them back to you when retrieving.

 

Like wise, hook coarse deads in same manner when sink and drawing....with a couple of swan shot on the wire trace near the mouth to add some wobble to the retrieve.

 

Deads.....hooked in the tail root but only slightly if not casting far...if a cast is required....ie: far bank of the relief channel, Great Ouse river, large gravel pit (Not so much nowadays).....I do the same but find the better holding spot in the flesh for the hook.

 

One reason for the type of hook, and size, is the large gap the hook has , so when the strike is made, the point is clear to take hold, if the hook doesn't leave the bait.

 

I believe that indication is a far more important aspect to preventing deep hooked pike than rigs.....and the obvious "I have all day to hit this run" or "I shall leave it a shade longer, its my only run of the day and I don't want to miss it" scenario's.

 

Once again, sorry if any offence was taken with my reply to you Andy No.1......none was meant.

 

Yours With Respect.....

Steve.

 

[ 09. August 2002, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: 'eelfisher' ]