A QUESTION FOR THE COURSE/FLY ANGLERS

[Steve Walker]

And boy, will it wind them up!

 

Some of the stuffier fly fishers look down their noses a bit at coarse fishing, that will really upset them!

[Hopinc]

Thanks for the trotting site info, I will have a look at it today.

 

Re the fly fishing, as mentioned there are many aspects to it you could explore. Flying tying is one of them, and it is something that I have done for many years. I never buy flies, I tie everything from size 22 midge patterns to saltwater and Pike flies.

 

Once fly fishingt gets hold of you it can be really addictive (in a very pleasant way). For instance I just looked up at my book shelves, and wondering how many books I have on fly fishing, I was slightly shocked to count 75. About 70% are about fly tying and patterns, the rest cover everything from matching the hatch to building your own fly rods.

 

It took me a long number of years to aquire all my tackle, which is all top end.

 

You don't need to spend a fortune though to get a decent set up, and I would recommend that once you have chosen your fishing style, and have a good idea of what you want your rod to do, then you explore the 2nd hand market. In that way you can get a better rod/reel set up at an cceptable price.

 

When it comes down to line choices, you will find a vast selection from which to choose. I have used most makes, but you cannot go far wrong with Cortland 444 or Scientific Anglers lines.

 

I am getting slightly off tangent now, as this is not really the time to get into a technical discussion on tackle and fishing. Come back after you have watched some DVD's, and if you like what you see, we can chat some more.

 

Just a last thought - if you have any local "put and take" fisheries near to hand if you give them a ring, explaining you are new to the sport and would like to have a go, they should be able to set you up with an instructor for a short session, providing the tackle also. In that way you will get a real a taste of what it is like to have a decent fish on a fly rod. I guarantee you will be hooked.

 

All the best

Edited January 15, 2011 by Hopinc

[Hopinc]

I would say that fly tackle is optimal for fishing the dry fly and probably quite inefficient for other styles.

 

This statement just isn't true.

 

For instance Czech nymphing - you could not possibly be more in touch with the fish and the fly. It is a deadly method, if done correctly. A nymph fished downstream and across is deadly too.

 

Dry fly is actually the least effective method of fly fishing. When 90% of a game fish's diet is taken sub-surface, it has to be. This is where snobbery might be perceived. Why restrict a water to upstream dry fly only. The simple answer is that it is more of a challenge. Let me ask you this, which fish you have caught gave you the most satisfaction. Was it the easiest, or the hardest?

 

Now I am not saying that there isn't snobbery in fly fishing, unfortunately there is - practised by certain members of society. It is something I abhore and have no time for.

 

Regards all.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Hopinc

[George387]

I was brought up with a fly rod in my hand purely because thats all there was when I was a kid, my father did it as did my brothers so the natural progression was to tie flies etc which I also done.

 

When I moved out & joined the forces it was only then that I was really introduced to coarse angling and match angling and now left the forces Ive went back to where I started, fly fishing and trotting on rivers as I love that sort of fishing.

 

Hopinc hit the nail on the head with his post above, and yes agreed there is snobbery in fly fishing but there is also big headedness in Coarse angling, Ive seen both sides of the coin and there is good & bad in both.

 

Going back to the original question for a book about fly fishing I would have to recommend The southeby's guide to fly fishing for trout written by charles Jardine. Not only does it cover each individual piece of tackle in detail it also gives you diagrams and talks you through learning how to cast..rivercraft, flytying and identifying flies as well as tackle hints & tips. I bought it for £20 brand new but that was some years ago, dont know what you would get it for these days.

Edited January 15, 2011 by George387

[Hopinc]

Jardine is a superb fly angler and casting tutor. I met him at the Chatsworth Game Fair a few years back and his mastery of the fly rod is second to none. I love his style.

 

If his book is as good as his casting technique then you cannot go wrong by buying it.

 

Re the snobbery - if we ourselves make derisive comments (deserved, or not) then we are helping to perpetuate it. My philosophy is live and let live. Life is too short to hold grudges.

[Steve Walker]

This statement just isn't true.

 

For instance Czech nymphing - you could not possibly be more in touch with the fish and the fly. It is a deadly method, if done correctly. A nymph fished downstream and across is deadly too.

 

I think you might be misunderstanding my point, but let's just take the example of Czech nymphing. This is fishing a team of heavily weighted nymphs on a short tight line, maintaining contact and feeling for bites. Often, it is done without any fly line out of the rod at all. Some sniffy purists will tell you that it isn't even actually fly fishing. Now, if I were to select the optimum tackle out of all my kit to fish this style, would I reach for a fly rod, reel and line? No, I would reach for a 13' match rod, a small fixed spool reel and a braided line - or possibly better still, a pole. Would I actually do that? No. I'd pick my fly tackle. Purely because I like using it.

 

People often fish "the duo". This is suspending a nymph under a buoyant dry fly. As well as potentially picking up fish, it controls the depth the nymph fishes at and indicates bites. Like a float. Some people use a strike indicator instead, other people watch the end of the fly line. It is all very crude compared to a match angler's stick float rig, and I'm sure that I could fish a sunken nymph more efficiently with coarse tackle. But I wouldn't, because I enjoy fly fishing. I was the daft sod blanking on the duo at last year's flooded out Itchen grayling fish-in, when any fool could see that I should have got a feeder rod out, but I had a great day blanking.

 

Now, the point I was making about dry fly fishing wasn't that it was in some way better than other forms of fly fishing - it was that if I wanted to present a small floating bait to surface feeding fish, and had to choose the most efficient tackle from all my kit to do it, I would pick the fly tackle over any other tackle I have. If I wanted to present a sub-surface bait as efficiently as possible, I would choose coarse tackle. But, the point I keep getting back to is that it isn't about efficiency, it's about pleasure!

[far bank stalker]

thanks everybody for all your replies. to be honest it was the snobbery that put me off when i was young, but i keep meeting people when out who only fly fish and are far from snobby, regardless of background, so this opened my eyes. also reading old books and finding out that before the 20th century people generally where anglers and fished all styles for every species or weren't anglers set me to thinking that really if i loved fishing as much as i thought i did then i shouldn't really restrict myself over some misconceived rubbish.

 

i am now officially all excited about the prospect of all that new stuff to learn!

 

there is a 'put & take' very close. i can't stand them, or the very idea of them but thats not going to stop it being there so.....in for a penny in for a pound. i'll give them a call in march.

 

the endorsments for the jardine book, and the man himself means thats the book i'll get along with the other stuff suggested

 

just got back from the absolute worst session ever! most of it spent chasing my bait box around in the wind, then scraping maggots out of the grass! oh well, not long now

[Anderoo]

I'm afraid I can't think of an ideal book either. I would probably work out what type of fly fishing you'll be mostly doing (small streams, intimate stillwaters, reservoirs, etc.) and then get a book on that, and possibly an additional book on casting if that isn't covered very well. Having a look around google video or youtube might be worth it too.

 

I started fly fishing in my teens so that I was able to fish in the closed season. I taught myself everything, and consequently have some very bad casting habits that I find difficult to shake off. I'm OK, but a long way from good. So an hour or two with an instructor (or friend, or whoever) is a good idea to get the basics straight.

 

Now there is no closed season I've started fishing for tench during the traditional trout time, so I don't do much fly fishing these days - a handful of days at Farmoor with Steve W and some evenings at a local tributary in spring fishing for the spooky little brownies (plus whatever chub and dace some my way!). It's a lovely way to fish, totally absorbing and very exciting. It can be really frustrating too. Really frustrating

 

I'm hoping to have a day at Farmoor with Steve W tomorrow, as the rivers are flooded and it's so mild. (Steve - I'm still waiting on permissions, sorry about that! Should be fine, will let you know asap.) I'm really looking forward to it. Variety is the spice of life and all that. This wind will make it interesting though, especially with long leaders and 2 droppers

Edited January 15, 2011 by Anderoo

[far bank stalker]

I'm afraid I can't think of an ideal book either. I would probably work out what type of fly fishing you'll be mostly doing (small streams, intimate stillwaters, reservoirs, etc.) and then get a book on that, and possibly an additional book on casting if that isn't covered very well. Having a look around google video or youtube might be worth it too.

 

I started fly fishing in my teens so that I was able to fish in the closed season. I taught myself everything, and consequently have some very bad casting habits that I find difficult to shake off. I'm OK, but a long way from good. So an hour or two with an instructor (or friend, or whoever) is a good idea to get the basics straight.

 

Now there is no closed season I've started fishing for tench during the traditional trout time, so I don't do much fly fishing these days - a handful of days at Farmoor with Steve W and some evenings at a local tributary in spring fishing for the spooky little brownies (plus whatever chub and dace some my way!). It's a lovely way to fish, totally absorbing and very exciting. It can be really frustrating too. Really frustrating

 

I'm hoping to have a day at Farmoor with Steve W tomorrow, as the rivers are flooded and it's so mild. (Steve - I'm still waiting on permissions, sorry about that! Should be fine, will let you know asap.) I'm really looking forward to it. Variety is the spice of life and all that. This wind will make it interesting though, especially with long leaders and 2 droppers

hey thanks anderoo. will be fishing between small/medium river, stream and maybe, from what you and everybody else has said a canal with fairly fast moving current (for a canal any way). i used to fish a lot of lakes when i was younger and it doesn't really appeal anymore, so hopefully one book may cover it (hmmmmm?)

 

hope you get your permits and have a productive day tmrw

[Hopinc]

(or friend, or whoever)

 

I would actually caution against this. You may personally know a good fly fisherman, but that does not make them a good teacher. The type of instructor I am suggesting is specially trained for the job.

 

I don't like "put and takes" either. It was just a suggestion for being able to find two resources in one place, and hopefully give you a little experience of a method that you will never want to quit.

 

Lakes, ponds and dams have an advantage in as much as the surface is relatively calm, allowing you to concentrate totally on your casting and presentation. When fishing a river you will have to contend with the flow as well. There is no reason though why your first outing shouldn't be on a river.

 

Regarding fly fishing canals, you don't need "fast" flowing water, I have taken Pike on the fly from very calm sections. You will however need stronger tackle to cast a large Pike fly. I use a #9wt for that purpose, often over-lined by one size because I am only casting relatively short distances. The heavier line aids in turning over the big fluffy wind resistant flies. Being able to manage the back cast is important.

 

Feather light touch downs aren't important, quite the opposite, as a good splashy entry of the fly into the water will be like a dinner gong being sounded for the Pike.

 

You should also be able to catch Perch, Chub and Carp on the fly from the "cut" - a 9ft #8 wt would probably be a good multi-species compromise for canal work.

 

FYI I have attached a picture comparison between two typical Pike flies (although a lot of Pike fly fishing exponents would regard these as small) and a copper wire midge nymph for trout fishing.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Hopinc