barbless hook - pike exception ??

[Nugg]

Some good posts here, I have to admit that I do sometimes use barbs, but much prefer micros semi's or crushed, so much easier to release, both from fish, and net sometimes.

[Tim Kelly]

Bruno Broughton:

Tim

 

Do I feel a LAS campaign coming on (which I would support and promote through 'the trade', if necessary)?

Bruno

 

I'd love it if lures came appropriately hooked so that you could use them straight from the packet, but I can't see how it could be bought about. The UK lure fishing market is tiny compared to the rest of the world. Heddon, who's lures have the cheapest nastiest hooks I've ever seen, are hardly likely to change their hooks because the LAS or anyone else (except possibly the U.S. BASS organisation) ask them to.

Education is, as with most things relating to pike fishing, a better way to go. As long as people are aware that they need to change the hardware on most lures then that's as good as we can hope.

I am looking at a range of lures for a company at the moment. They have the usual issues with inappropriate hooks and split rings. I have made them aware of the shortcomings and we'll see what, if anything, happens. There are huge cost and marketing issues attached to fitting good quality, appropriately sized hardware and the lure market is so price sensitive that it is always going to be a compromise.

Hooks like the Mustad roundbends have many fans. They are a superb shape for lures, but they are too soft in the temper, so you constantly have to sharpen them, and the barbs are too big. Most people who use them reduce the size of the barb and put up with the constant re sharpening for the shape and hooking properties, another compromise.

If you have any suggestions how we could campain for an improvement in the way lures are armed I would be interested to hear it. It is definitely an issue, but until there is a solution anglers will have to take responsibility for re-hooking lures themselves. Organisations like the LAS are helpful here as meeting other lure anglers and swapping experiences and ideas speeds up the learning process dramatically.

[Peter Sharpe]

I've aired my opinions on this subject before, but I find the hooks on many of the lures on display in tackle shops to be almost criminal, and anyone using them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. If you can't land a pike on these kinds of lures without using huge barbed hooks, then you shouldn't be using the lures, it's as simple as that. It just sickens me to see these things on display, and I would support any campaign to make their sale illegal.

[Peter Waller]

There are companies on both sides of the Atlantic that sell lures that have excellent hooks on them for catch & release. If some can do it then I'm sure others could follow. In my opinion both Fox & Masterline, for example, are using sensibly sized hooks.

 

Bulldawgs are, once again in my honest opinion, one of the worst examples of oversize hooks on the market.

 

I once asked a well know riverside tackle shop on the River Yare to trade in all the gross hooks that I had removed from lures that I had bought off them. They refused but were quite happy to sell me replacements at full price! They failed to admit that there was anything wrong with the size of these massive hooks, or even some of the gross 18" long lures that they sell.

 

In fairness to Harris Angling they do point out in their catalogue that many of the lures that they sell will need re-hooking. Feather in their cap for that one!

 

Legislation would be a problem as there a number of 'size' systems out there.

 

[ 06. January 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Peter Waller ]

[Bradford Angler]

Thanks all for your input . . . I am probably not the 1st to mention it . . the people on here actually care about fishing (looking at some of the orgs you belong to or run). Chances are when ever I catch a roach in poor condition it has not been caught and released by an angler of the level of skill or care as those who post on the board. (that's not creeping)

 

C'mon guys . . . would you like to guess how many anglers actually know how to use a disgorger . . I wonder what percentage actually don't even carry one in the box and just pull and hope or so what at the consequences. My post was basically to get views from the posters. I am thinking of the common or garden fisherman that buys a bite indicator from Argus, wangs his rod rest, fits the battery jobbie and hey presto ! instant expert

 

These sometimes need a little guidance on their actions, policed by rules . .

 

On general waters I fish, most anglers would not use an unhooking mat let alone start changing spilt rings and trebles . . I mean in their eyes a new lure comes with brand new hooks good for atleast two seasons . . .

[Alan Pearce]

Most of the lures I see for sale should never be used. It is up to anglers who care, to prevent them from being sold or used.

 

Alan.

[Steve Burke]

I much prefer rules to be left up to fishery managers rather than having blanket bans as each fishery is different. For instance at Wingham I ban barbless hooks bigger than size 10. This is because I'm convinced they can kill species like perch for the reasons Peter McCue gave. However, barbless hooks cause less damage on unhooking and so are perhaps better on commercial fisheries. They are also probably better for this reason when bait fishing for pike with trebles.

 

I agree that treble hooks on lures often leave a lot to be desired. Not only do they have barbs that are too big, but they are usually too thick in the wire as well. Manufacturers have to assume that the lures are used for species such as tiger fish and nile perch. However, for pike fishing trebles that are finer in the wire are much more suitable.

 

Hopefully, now that catch and release is increasing in popularity in the States (by far the biggest market) we can perhaps look forward to the day when all trebles have tiny barbs. Mind you, it may be a long wait!

[The Diamond Geezer]

peter mccue:

.. bear in mind there is a growing body of anglers who believe barbless hooks actually cause more damage to the fish, by virtue of penetrating deeper into the tissue & moving about more during the fight, because there is no barb to stabilise the hook. To my mind microbarbs may be the best of both worlds.

I have to say that this view is shared by several fisheries managers of my acquaintance, and indeed I seem to recollect Prof Barrie Rickards championing this theory several years ago.

 

Richard

[THE BARBEL AND PERCH MAN]

NO THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!

I THINK ITWOULD BE WRONG TO PUT A BAN ON FISHING WITH BARBED HOOKS BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE EVER FISHED WITH BARBLESS HOOKS THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO PLAY A FISH WITHOUT LOOSING IT.

I HAVE USED BARBLESS HOOKS FOR PIKE IN THE PAST AND LOST A HECK OF A LOT OF FISH!

AND ALSO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO LURES? THE PIKE TAKES THE LURE WITH SUCH AGRESSION THAT IT CAN EASILY SPIT OUT OR SHAKE THE LURE OFF!

I THINK THAT IF THE BAN HAPPENS A LOT OF PIKE ANGLERS WILL NOT BE HAPPY CAUSE OF THE SIMPLE FACT OF THAT THEY ARE LOSING MORE FISH!

 

..................................................

HAVE A NICE DAY

[Guest sslatter]

THE BARBEL AND PERCH MAN:

NO THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!

I THINK ITWOULD BE WRONG TO PUT A BAN ON FISHING WITH BARBED HOOKS BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE EVER FISHED WITH BARBLESS HOOKS THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO PLAY A FISH WITHOUT LOOSING IT.

I HAVE USED BARBLESS HOOKS FOR PIKE IN THE PAST AND LOST A HECK OF A LOT OF FISH!

AND ALSO WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO LURES? THE PIKE TAKES THE LURE WITH SUCH AGRESSION THAT IT CAN EASILY SPIT OUT OR SHAKE THE LURE OFF!

I THINK THAT IF THE BAN HAPPENS A LOT OF PIKE ANGLERS WILL NOT BE HAPPY CAUSE OF THE SIMPLE FACT OF THAT THEY ARE LOSING MORE FISH!

Okay, I hear what you are saying, but this has not been my experience. As regards deadbaiting, I got into using big singles for deadbaits up to sprat-size, after reading about them in a late-70s pike article by (I think) Jim Gibbinson. For deadbaits of such size, I've never felt the need to change back to using trebles. I use a 1/0 barbless hooked through the eye sockets, and have not found any difference at all in lost fish ratios. As for losing a fish while playing it, it's like any other barbless set-up: you've got to stay in contact all the time, any slack line is fatal. The big difference is in unhooking, which is no problem whatsoever with such a hook.

For larger deadbaits, I've tried variations of single-hook rigs, but I had to admit defeat and now use at least one treble on a two-hook rig with two barbless and one barbed hook on the treble, the barbed one used to secure the deadbait.

When I lure fish (which isn't often I admit) I use barbless trebles, and I find that as long as you maintain good contact with a hooked fish, you won't often lose it. You've just got to learn to play it, keeping in good contact.

Come to think of it, the only times I use any type of barbed hook is when fishing live maggot or worm, otherwise they'll just wriggle off the hook. Time and time again, when I've got a fish that is deep-hooked, I thank my lucky stars that I've been using a barbless. Makes life so much easier.