Otters

[Peter Waller]

Lee, like you I am aware that there are negative implications for the rivers following the reintroduction of otters to the wild. Like you I belive that angling has to heighten its profile. Like you I believe that we need to make the well meaning advocates of otter releases aware of possible problems that they may be causing by indiscriminatly recreating unsuitable otter communities.

 

But perhaps we are between the devil and the deep blue sea here. I would suggest that very many conservationists, and very many members of the general public, would rather see live otters, even at the expense of dead carp. Infact there is clear, written evidence that the carp, and its J.C.B type activities, are not well liked by many conservationists. We have conservation measures up here on the Broads that preclude fish. Naturel fish have been removed from naturel waters as a means of promoting weed growth.

 

Making people in suits suitably aware of our concerns is all very well. But I do have reservations, at this time, of asking for public funding on this matter.

 

Fencing off a fishery could be seen as impractical, and funding from the public purse as unreasonable.

 

I do not feel that heightening our profile in this matter, at this time, is in the best interest of angling. We could find ourselves in a position of asking people to take sides, our side, or the otter's side.

 

Personally I have been seriously reconsidering my previous decision re membership of the SAA. This application for fence funding is, I think, ridiculous. No, I'll not be joining, for awhile atleast!

[Howard 13]

Jonboy, as a Taunton AA member I'd be interested to know where these otters are being sighted? - is it the WSD?

 

HB.

[monkeyboy]

KOI CARP.

I think your looking at Stoats or Weasils.

I cant see that an Otter or a Mink could take anything over 5lb, its not even in the Otters nature. I for one am all for the re introduction of otters. It is only man that was the cause of the poor blighters near extinction.

Leave them alone they wont bother you if the place you fish is fished regularly.They dont like company!

[monkeyboy]

I wasnt talking about koi......looked like it though. My bad writing skills.....sorry KOI

[Guest sslatter]

Just a thought..this dark animal with a spot of white, that had no fear of humans..

Well.. I've never seen a mink, or a stoat that wasn't frightened of humans. An otter, of course, is much larger, but no indication of size was given.

Could it have been a ferret?

 

(BTW white spots/patches on wild animals/birds are not without precedent- I've seen them on blackbirds, rats, once on a mole, once on a shrew, and on starlings too).

[trent.barbeler]

Dear Peter,

 

You are, unfortunately, almost certain to be absolutely right on your "in between the devil and the deep blue sea" anecdote concerning the otter predation issue. Especially so, if your concerns are anything like my own in terms of how these releases will eventually effect wild fish stocks on rivers. Predominately, the effects on the upper year classes of fish which are after all, not only the intended targets of the specialist angler, (SAA membership) but the year classes of fish that species rely on for the majority of its successful reproduction in the wild.

 

You also, might be right in your predictions on how the general public and some conservationists might weigh up keeping otters out of stillwater venues as opposed to allowing them in to kill large carp. There again, these otters of course wont stop at the large carp once in, they will munch their way through the smaller ones as well until there are none left. Then of course, they will simply move onto another venue where they become another fishing clubs problem.

 

But anyway, aside from that, YES; I am certain that as always now a days, there WILL be some rumblings and ramblings from certain quarter's of the general public who will no doubt, look upon watching otters as a pastime way above that of imagining the existence of carp in lakes, ponds and rivers. Thats is of course, until these same people watch an otter drag a large carp out, kill and eat a small portion of it then waddle off leaving a fish, probably older than themselves, to rot on the bank. I have a very strong suspicion, that once our nations animal lovers view this event a few times, they will see clearly the need to try at least, to afford some measure of protection for these great fish. And they won't give a hoot where the money comes from. Hell!! They will probably send Chris a few bob!!

 

Most cyprids, have "JCB" characteristics. I have argued exactly the same case as you describe myself when undertaking a Draft Management Scheme for a SSSI site with English Nature not so long ago. Carp and Tench were being deemed to be threatening weed species (just one)at a SSSI site. I argued within my draft accompanied with evidence during the Scheme that this weed itself had become "invasive in nature" to the site itself thus causing an "operation" of a sorts that threatened other species deemed as rare enough to be included on the sites list also. This "rare" weed was infact slowly choking the venue and the carp and tench presence was infact benefitial to the overal site!

 

But going back to stillwaters threatened by otters; It should also be remembered, that we are NOT just talking about carp here. We ARE INDEED talking about the viability of a whole fishery and almost every fish species they contain as all species will be targetted.

 

Chris Burt has managed to reach all levels within the Otter BAPS ranging from those at the "top" of various organisations involved, right down to the people working at ground level as it were. Chris has amassed thousands of correspondence since the campaign began. Correspondence from all sorts of people in all walks of life involved in the Otter BAP projects. His role here has been anything BUT one of merely talking to men in suits. Infact, the majority of talking was done to quite ordinary people.

 

I have absolutely no reservations on asking for public money for ANY angling related issue at this, or any other time past present or in the future. Angling, unlike a very long list of other sports, has been starved of government funding for far too long. AND; This public money, "IS" already earmarked for angling. As far as I am concerned, angling should have had this funding years ago. This funding of course, would be spent on a vast range of issues within angling. A lot of it going to other protectory measures and preservation programmes. I take the strong view that if Chris and others in NAA manage to obtain funding for otter predation, funding for other projects could quickly follow.

 

As for otter fencing being impractical? I have already voiced my own opinions as to the logistics of such a thing. Those being, the time taken from the first fish being killed or should that be, spotted, to the time it takes for the fencing to arive and be erected. My concerns here is that "red tape" of the all to familiar sort will rear its ugly head as is always the case when grants for anything are granted. For my part, if any funding is obtained, I would like the method for applying to be speeded up so that a fishery can be afforded protection quickly.

 

As for this funding being possibly seen as unreasonable? Who cares? Why should we as anglers care about what a tiny minority of the general whinging public think when our fisheries become threatened. Frankly Peter, I dont give a damn if its just ONE fishery because in my opinion, that remains one fishery too many. And the reality is of course, it will be hundreds. It might be thousands!

 

Again just in my opinion, I think that we have backed off from all sorts of perceived "opinion" for far too long. How long are we going to retreat from protecting our own angling interests in favour of protecting someone elses? When, are we as a sport, going to stand our ground?

 

As for anyone taking sides on the otter predation issue? There are no sides. Otters are fully protected so the very best we can hope for is exactly what Chris Burt is trying to achieve. If he fails regarding funding otter fencing then we will all see first hand all sorts of fish species being predated upon. This entails seeing the rotting carcasses of big fish at venues everywhere where otters live. This will be a fact of angling life that we will all have to live with. It does make me wonder though what the watery walking public will make of all these rotting fish bodies. Wont be a nice spectacle for Mr&Mrs Green and their kids to see. Certainly nothing like they see on the square box that influences most of their natural history outlooks thats for sure.

 

But I for one, back the efforts of one man and his colleagues in actually trying to do something NOW.

 

Otter predation effects me personally because I am a specialist angler. Otters are starting to colonise the River Trent already. This means that the tremendous amounts of gravel pit fisheries along her banks will be effected also as will the main river itself. I have long suffered the existence of hundreds of cormorants already, pollution before that. Now I fear, I will be haunted by the forthcoming effects that otter predation will bring.

 

Aside from my own selfish concerns, I fear for my brother carp, bream, chub, roach, pike, perch and eel specialist anglers along the Trent Valley. Indeed, my brother specialist anglers where ever they may fish.

 

Thats why, for all my previous differences with some in SAA, I WILL be rejoining. And even if they refuse me membership again, (understandably)they will receive a donation to the sum of the membership.

 

I am proud to be a specialist angler. Rightly proud to be a member of a fishing community responsible for some remarkable advances in species protection and species preservation.

 

I have placed aside my own differences with a minority for the interests of my specialist angling brothers and what is for some of them at the moment, a serious problem looming over them.

 

And like them, I will not take one more step backwards.

 

Regards,

 

Lee.

[H Jampton]

Now that wild boar have escaped into the countryside and appear to be breeding out of control, should they, as a previously native species, be allowed the increase or should they be wiped?

 

Do people, including anglers, really believe that there are too many otters at large in this country?

Will they become a problem if there is nothing to naturally control their numbers or will the motorcar do it instead?

Who will they be a problem to?

The R.S.P.B. controls the numbers of foxes, crows and magpies on it's reserves. Does the otter eat ground nesting birds eggs like the hedgehog does?

Will disease control their numbers where no steps are taken by man to do it, just like the foxes are dieing of mange in areas where no hunting takes place?

 

Who said these forums aren't like they used to be?

 

[ 09. February 2003, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: H Jampton ]

[jonboy walton]

Howard

 

Funny you should say the WSD. The friend that phoned about the otters started the conversation by talking about the West Sedgemoor. Apparentley the WSD has had it's worse season for carp catches ever. In fact only 2, an 11+(which I caught) and an 18lb 2oz have been confirmed all season. In 1997 as you probably know, Somerset had a continuous 4 days of rain which caused all the crops to be flattened and start rotting. This ammonia run off affected the WSD badly, but the Carp seemed to escape. However the next year, 1998 a mate of mine counted 30-35 dead carp floating in the water. The EA passed it off as a deoxygenation, which I thought was utter rubbish as no other fish died. Taunton AA restocked with carp (mainly small) and the next season my mate had over 50 doubles.

However since then he has struggled to say the least, 17 trips for 1 carp last season and 7 trips for bream and tench this season, thats with prebaiting. I saw 3 mirrors in June up the Pincombe end spawning, but as for the rest of the carp it is a bit off a mystery.

As for the otters, it was actually the Bridgwater and Taunton canal where they have been spotted, in several different areas.

 

Jon :confused: :confused: