still water barbel - depressing news.

[Guest martin@tryangling]

Hi Ian

 

Speaking as an ex-Surrey regional organiser for the Barbel Society who didn't even get invited to the latest regional meeting, you can count on my help to improve the previously mentioned stretch of river. Keep up the good work.

 

Martin

[Guest Paulg]

The Blackwater has already got Barbel in the RMC Yately stretch....and you have just disclosed my secret Barbel venue for the coming season.....mutter, mutter...

 

Paul

[Guest phil hackett]

Originally posted by lyn:

Lyn

Thank you for having the courage of your own convictions to answer the question honestly, others should take note of that!

 

In answer to your first question, Yes I am a scientist and my areas are Environmental Studies, Ecology (terrestrial & aquatic) and Countryside Management.

 

To question two, Yes again! I attended SACG committee meetings from very near the start of that group, along with Nick Melling, as delegates of Middleton Carp Group. Do not be fooled by the word carp, as the group encompasses all specialist anglers.

 

As a delegate and attendee to the SACG, I was tasked with keeping a watching brief on environmental issues nationally, and acted as a local involvement adviser/activist in the Northwest.

 

Final point in this regard, I am involved with the newly formed SAA.

 

Lyn you state, “As their policy is NOT to stock indigenous species into rivers then perhaps we should ask why they stock them into stillwaters. (I am going to look into this one but it will take a lot of time.)”

 

It is my understanding that the EA’s policy is NOT to stock non-indigenous fish into rivers. This includes Barbel in rivers where they are not currently present.

 

My understanding again on this, is that it is to preserve as far is practicable, the fish species integrity and wider biodiversity of a given river. Whilst it is an arguable point what is the true fish species integrity and wider biodiversity of a given river. The fact is that under the Rio Convention on Sustainable Development and Biodiversity they must endeavour to carry this out.

 

The point you make about over production of barbel is a relevant one. However, that is for the EA to answer not me.

As for the sale of this over-capacity and the stocking in stillwaters, I fear you will be back in the realms of the moral argument. They (EA) will say, “What evidence do you have to support your argument?”

 

It is after all your moral argument that barbel should not be stocked in stillwater, therefore the EA could rightly and legitimately turn round and say, “The burden of proof and financial cost rests on those who argue the case against it.”

Sad as that might be, it is a very real possibility.

I think the most likely situation would be some form of joint research project between the EA and BS done through a university, Nerc, Freshwater Biological Association, etc.

 

But first You and BS must convince them that there is some merit to the moral argument.

[Guest trent.barbeler]

Nick,

As usual, a first class post that made perfect sense. I see NOTHING wrong with the commercial type fishery myself. I fish wild rivers but so what. Fishing is for everyone no matter where they choose to fish.

 

Phil,

As per usual, you are spot on. Indeed, the SAA are very lucky to have you in its ranks.

 

Lyn,

As you know, this issue has been going on for a long time. Unfortunately, I see very little chance of it being resolved in the near future.

On the other hand, whilst there are people out there like yourself, we always have the chance to change opinion.

[Guest lyn]

Originally posted by martin@tryangling:

Hi Ian

 

Speaking as an ex-Surrey regional organiser for the Barbel Society who didn't even get invited to the latest regional meeting, you can count on my help to improve the previously mentioned stretch of river. Keep up the good work.

 

Martin

 

Hi Martin

 

I checked with John Found & it's because you live in Middx that you are not on the Surrey list. I have your address now & will send you details of any future events.

 

Lyn

 

PS Ian said he was a Surrey member but in fact lives in Hampshire so he is on the Hampshire mailing list.

 

PPS If anyone else member or not, would like details of the BS Surrey Regions meetings then just email your address.

[Guest Keith Truscott]

Having just managed to get hooked up again after moving back to Uk I have been reading this post with much interest.

 

The various viewpoints expressed appear to be well meaning and very diverse with a good sense of justification in all of them.

 

I can understand Lyns abhorance of this practice as I truly believe after speaking to her on this subject at length,that it is a geninune and heartfelt ideal, born through the admiration and concern for quarry, as it is for the majority of of genuine Barbel Anglers.

 

I can also understand Ian's predicament of trying to please his masters and customers while still trying to hold on to his principles as an Angler. unfortunately it is not that easy to have a foot in each camp and still be loved by all. Luckily for 95% of us, fishing is a hobby or an addiction whichever way you look at it so we don't have to make these decisions or face this dilema, who knows which way we would go if our livelyhood depended on it, or how we would jeopordise our principles.

 

Saying that. I do not agree with the argument put forward by you Ian that you stocked them at the members request. People join a society or club knowing what it is at the time of joining. If the rules state that no Barbel will be stocked in to still waters then people except this at the outset. RMC has many fine waters covering all aspects of coarse fishing, by your own admission it controls many miles of river bank containing all sizes of Barbel, I therefore fail to see the justification of stocking them into still waters when anglers wanting to catch Barbel from there true habitat could be encouraged to do so.

 

The arguments you put forward smack of after thought, as does the BS in justifying it as an agreed survey after they were stocked or as a compramise situation, as a member of the BS this goes against all it stands for, but saying that nothing is black and white and compromise some times has to be achieved. A survey of this type to be effective would have to be done over many years with strict controls and scieintific evidence and equipment, neither of which I could see either the BS being able to afford or RMC being prepared to do.

 

I think I have made it perfectly clear in previous posts that personaly I am totally against under any circumstances stocking Barbel into still waters, there are many other species of fish that are suited to this environment. I would also like to make it clear that I have nothing at all against commercial fisheries and think they fill the void left by the deteriration of our rivers as match and easy pleasure fisheries.

 

We in this country have many, many miles of fishing available to us containing Barbel and all species of fish in there natural habitat, some of record proportions that we are losing through neglect and ignorance and dare I say it commercalism, these are called river banks. Clubs are losing the rights every day through lack of support and easy options.

 

Even what has become known as the premier Barbel river, the Great Ouse. Apart from one or two of the well known beats is still virtually unfished for miles, all containing Barbel, What about the Trent probably one of the the best rivers in this country. Certainly capable of holding records of most river species as is the Old Father Thames. Unfortunatly like with most things we have developed in to the quick fix, quick success mentality, we want it all and we want it now. The days of every works,pub,club having there own angling section has gone, so where do we breed the new generation of anglers. But is this right?? As caring,thinking anglers, is this not what we should be promoting?? or do we become like the giant supermarkets that start of selling all brands for choice then gradually diminish the stock to our own more highly profitable brand??

 

Good to be back

Keith

[Guest Alan Pearce]

It appears that the veiws of the EA re stocking barbel into still waters is a regional one.

 

Alan.

[Guest Philip Inzani]

I know its on a tangent and not about still water Barbel but I just wanted to comment on Ian's intention to stock Fishers Green where he explains there is a Barbel recruitment problem.

 

As I understand it the Chub fishing there is currently looked on as some of the best in the country. Do you not think that an influx of small Barbel is going to directly impact this ?

 

I wonder if its really got to be Barbel, Barbel, Barbel all the time. Is that what people want?

 

…..Answer will probably be "yes" but I am interested in the reaction.

[Guest Ian Welch]

Very interesting thought indeed Philip. The big chub fishing on Fishers Green is quite superlative and I would wish to do nothing at all to jeopardise that.

 

I do not think a small number of young barbel will have a significant impact on chub populations as the two species occupy a slightly different niche to one another.

 

Certainly studies I am aware of on other river systems where young barbel have been introduced have not influenced the chub populations in a significant way.

 

That said the young barbel will probably be a fine food source for 6 and 7lb chub.....

[Guest fisherking]