LINES: Part 2: STRETCH: what DOES it mean?

[Andy Nellist]

DG,

 

I do not disagree that labelling should be accurate and hope that EFTA are on the case that the situation will improve.

 

The decision on buying a line is in my opinion a very significant factor indeed and should not be dcomlplkicated by inaccurate packaging.

 

However for a beginner things are different. they have to decide what is appropriate before they get to the point of looking at labels.

 

We should be encouraging beginners and experienced anglers alike to understand what different lines do and in what circumstances to use them.... hence the list at the bottom of my last post.

 

The way to do that is to have consumer reviews of the products that are out there and make these easily accessible to all. Far better to rely on the experiences of fellow anglers actually using the products than the propaganda of the salesman.

 

Personally I test all of the lines I use using a micrometer and then check breaking strain with several different knots (grinner, domhoff and knotless). I am far less concerned about stretch if I need stretch then i can incorporate powergum into my rig.

 

Like buying a tv, video and car my decisions when buying a new line are based on a whole series of criteria. Any stats provided by the vendor I would always check with an independant source.

[Lid]

Given that nylon is waterproof (or is it?) then why should there be difference between wet and dry stretch and breaking points, etc?

 

I can see that wet line will be a different temperature, which will surely make some difference, but are you saying that standard mono line absorbs water which then changes it's properties?

 

[ 16. February 2004, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Lid ]

[kleinboet]

DG - I have found most tackle shops will advise a novice on the best line to use, after all he wants the repeat business. I use mono as I am used to the 'give'(stretch) when fighting a 15lb fish with 6lb BS line. I suppose I will 'upgrade'to braid when most of the waters I fish will allow it (currently banned).

[Dick Dastardly]

Originally posted by The Diamond Geezer:

[And so how would a beginner or less experienced angler chose such a line in a tackle-shop?

 

Personally I think it would be a very good start, apart from its being a legal requirement, for the line to do exactly what's claimed on the packet..... otherwise, why bother to put anything meaningful on the spool at all (reductio ad absurdum)?

 

A fair point DG cant argue with that.

[Newt]

... but are you saying that standard mono line absorbs water which then changes it's properties?

 

Yes. Weakens it quite a bit and makes it heavier. Fluorocarbon does not absorb water, nor do the better braid 'superlines' so they behave pretty much the same dry or wet (pretty much) but not mono. Not sure about the co-polymer lines.

 

I agree with DG that any line & knot testing should be done wet because some lines seem to react to it with quite a bit more strength loss than others.

[Dick Dastardly]

The more DG goes on about this the more I think he is on to something.

 

With regards to stretch in line 10%,20% or what ever amount of stretch means nothing to me.By using the line I can get a "feel" for it and if I need/dont need a certain amount of stretch can make my choice accordingly.IF however DG got his way and accurate testing and the resulting properties were put on products I could look on the spool of line that I liked the "feel" of see what the properties (ie in this case percentage of stretch) was and be then in a position to make a more informed purchased by using this information as a comparison.

Some situations a stretchy line is preferable e.g Drennan Float Fish was a stretchy line and most suited to big fish pole work before elastication was in.

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lid:

Given that nylon is waterproof (or is it?) then why should there be difference between wet and dry stretch and breaking points, etc?

 

I can see that wet line will be a different temperature, which will surely make some difference, but are you saying that standard mono line absorbs water which then changes its properties?

---

Yup, nylon line does absorb water and its properties are adversely affected ... done the pukka LAb tests ... got the results .... got the T-shirt . It is also degraded by UV light, and oxygen (from the air), and the higher the temperature and the longer the time, the worse things get.

 

The international Test standard (and the one that EFTTA's labs used) involves conditioning line in water for two hours before testing, for the very reason I explained.

 

DG

 

[ 17. February 2004, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]

[The Diamond Geezer]

The Diamond Geezer:

OK guys ‘n’ gals,

 

LINES: Part 2: STRETCH: what DOES it mean?

 

Much appreciated your input to Part 1 about the diameter of the lines we buy.

 

Please help me out again with your answers/suggestions/comments to another parameter that’s bothering me about fishing-tackle marketing companies’ claims : STRETCH

 

Say you or I buy a spool of main-line nylon or co-polymer mono that proudly boasts a claim of  “22% stretch”   (NOTE: the figure of 22% is only an example, extracted from the huge table of data I have been poring-over … it could be 5% or 15 % or whatever).  

 

Does this figure refer to a dry line, or to a line that’s been in water for a couple of hours? Which is more meaningful?

 

And what exactly does this claim of  “22% stretch” mean ….. to you?  Does it mean:-

 

a) the percentage that the line stretches while you’re giving it a tug to set your reel drag?

OR

the percentage that the line stretches when you cast a heavy feeder, or a 3oz lead or a dead-bait or a big string of boilies?

OR

c) the percentage that the line stretches when you’re stuck in a snag and have to pull-to-break?

OR

d) the percentage that the line stretches when you’ve got a  2oz lure at the end of your line, hanging from your rod-tip?

OR

e) the percentage that the line stretches before exceeding its Elastic Limit?

OR

f) the percentage that the line stretches when you're tussling with a 20 lb pike/carp , whatever?

OR

g) what???

 

And next, why would you buy a line with, say, a claimed “22% stretch” …. And what would it mean to you (or wouldn’t you care) if it was tested properly by an independent Lab using Internationally-agreed standards and test-methods, after you’d been fishing with it for a couple of hours, and it was found that it actually stretched 38% (Here I’m quoting from results of over 20 UK nylon and copolymer monos with different claimed Breaking Strengths, different Brands and from different factories/countries of manufacture)

 

And finally …. Are we being conned by some companies making false claims of percentage stretch for their lines, and/or do you care?

 

DG

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by BUDGIE:

With regards to stretch in line 10%, 20% or what ever amount of stretch means nothing to me.

---

Thanks, Budgie

 

A straight and interesting answer ... so you'd never buy any line based on its claimed stretch ... sage thinking

 

DG

[The Diamond Geezer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newt:

Fluorocarbon does not absorb water, nor do the better braid 'superlines' so they behave pretty much the same dry or wet (pretty much) but not mono. Not sure about the co-polymer lines.

 

I agree with DG that any line & knot testing should be done wet because some lines seem to react to it with quite a bit more strength loss than others.

---

Newt,

 

Don't get carried-away now I fear that your comments aren't based on any hard Lab-test data that you have! ... and as I am always banging-on about, received information or label claims aren't always to be believed

 

We're mainly talking about nylon monos here (I hope) ... this means Nylon 66 monofil .... co-polymer normally refers to nylon co-polymer i.e. a co-polymer of Nylon 66 and Nylon 6

 

I was hoping to stick to nylon monos and stretch for the moment, but I'd like to take a pico-second to say that, based on the data I have to hand, I don't agree with you about wet and dry HPPE braided superlines behaving very much the same .... certainly not when it comes to wet-knot strength .... maybe we can cover this in another thread? What does STRETCH mean to you?

 

Also, it's not me who's suggesting that lines should be tested wet (although I am), it's the international test method (ISO) that specifies this. What I am suggesting is that fishing line marketing companies (not the manufacturers of the filaments), should have their lines independently tested by the ISO method before putting their label claims on their spools and packaging.

 

But what about stretch?

 

DG

 

[ 17. February 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: The Diamond Geezer ]