A Maize question (Bruno ??)

[Newt]

From This thread on a Canadian angling forum, someone posted about the dangers of using dried maize to bait up - certain death to carp was what he implied.

 

I asked if he had witnessed this first hand and it turns out he was like other folks who've posted that 'fact' - he read it from something an unspecified expert posted.

 

Does anyone - and especially Bruno - have a factual answer to the question?

 

[ 09. February 2005, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: Newt ]

[Bill Dingley]

Newt I have never read a scientifically proved paper on the use of uncooked maize but I do know that any fishery owner over here would ban anyone caught using it.

No doubt Bruno will give us the facts.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

[Peter Waller]

I believe that I am right in suggesting that some maize varieties are actually poisonous, atleast to humans, until cooked.

[fenboy]

Big problem with any uncooked seed/pulse is that it swells up inside the stomach of the fish. And that can kill.

Please note that one of the tortures the sadistic Japanese inflicted upon Allied PoWs during WW2 was to force-feed them dried rice, which caused agony when it swelled up inside their stomachs.

And Peter is right about toxins - particularly in uncooked nuts and some beans. All should be soaked first and then boiled for 20 minutes before simmering.

And, yes, those same toxins can poison humans. Kidney beans, for example, if not properly prepared.

Hope that helps.

[Dick Dastardly]

Also one of the reasons to boil seed baits is so that they dont germinate! several are safe to use un boiled as long as they are soaked for several days but if not boiled would end up growing if in the shallows! Wheat,buckwheat,groats etc ate prime examples of this.Also some particles are easier to mount if softened by boiling.

[Guest Ferret1959]

I made the mistake of purchasing dry maize.

Tried soaking the stuff in boiling water for a day, still solid.

Left it for a week or more, still solid.

Might just chuck it in the bin.

[fenboy]

Maize never softens to the extent of sweetcorn, which is basically immature maize (ie harvested green, or before it's fully ripened). Don't worry about it still being hard - it's great to mount of the hook (or hair) won't get disintegrated by smaller fish and carp will make short work of crushing it in the throat teeth.

Incidentally, leaving ANY particle soaking for a week or so is a brilliant idea. When it starts to ferment (look out for bubbles) or even goes sticky and slimy, it is a fantastic bait... I have had huge catches of big carp on maples in that state (in the days when I used to be keen on carp). I understand it is because certain enzymes are being released, according to the expoerts. I'm no expert in such stuff, I just know it works brilliantly.

[Newt]

Peter - no maize (at least the sorts we have) that I know of is poisonous without cooking. And dried maize is fed to horses. They grind it up pretty well with those large, flat molars of theirs.

 

fenboy - I've read about the rice in WWII but may I submit that

- the gut of a carp is vastly different than the gut of a human

- humans lack the pharyngeal 'teeth' that carp use to reduce hard objects.

- certainly aflotoxins (on poorer grades of peanuts especially) are toxic to humans probably to fish as well. But maize isn't bothered with that one.

 

Budgie (and all) - certainly there are lots of reasons to boil baits or else to soak them for a good while. But I'm still not sure if dry maize to bait an area is dangerous to carp.

 

And BTW - I've had grains of maize (some that fell into my boat while I was baiting up and after being soaked for a week or more with some yeast added to start the maize fermenting) sprout after a few days of rain. Tough stuff. Won't grow if under water though.

 

Ferret1959 - with dried maize, soak it for at least 24 hours and a week works even better. Cooking at that point is optional IMO.

[fenboy]

Newt,

I agree that raw maize isn't poisonous to humans... but several seeds are. Better to be safe than poisoned, eh?

There were reports of carp dying in the 1980s when raw peanuts were used as bait. Tales of carps' guts splitting asunder. Never witnessed, just read about it.

Incidentally, food poisoning from certain seeds - like rice, for example - is very serious indeed. So it's best to err on the side of caution.

Remember: soak, boil briskly for 20 mins... and if you want to catch a lot of carp leave to soak for a long time.

Even if raw baits DO catch carp and (probably) do little or no harm, why risk them when it's so much easier to make them safe and CATCH MORE FISH??

[Bruno Broughton]

I cannot claim any great expertise as a fish nutritionist, but...

 

I remain sceptical about the toxicity or otherwise of dry (uncooked) maize. In theory, it will swell with water once the outer skin has been pierced, but bear in mind that:-

 

1. carp do not have a stomach, just what is really just one long intestinal tube. If maize swells, my guess is that it will merely shunt more partly or wholly digested food along the tube to make space.

 

2. on French carp lakes, if nowhere else, HUGE amounts of uncooked maize are added to the shallows/margins to attract ducks for shooting. I have seen piles the size of small haystacks, yet I do not know of carp mortalities on such lakes, some of which are managed out-of-duck-season as carp fishing lakes.

 

3. I certainly know for a fact that when carp swallow hard, uncooked maize, it often passes straight through the fish, unaffected by the digestive processes.

 

That said, boiling is not a bad idea as it helps ensure that the maize is soft enough to be broken down by the digestive processes. In my experience, soaking alone does sweet f.a. on maize - I have soaked it for almost three weeks and it seemed much as it was unsoaked.

 

Other foods/baits do not necessarily act in a similar manner. Please note that it is standard practice among European carp farmers to use grains, seeds & similar as supplementary feedstuffs tyo aid growth. The standard advice is to soak the grains/seeds first and to obtain the seeds/grains in rolled or crushed form.

 

Newt - if your query was intended for US use, I tend to use maize as my only bait when in your country & Canada. I cook it for about 30-60 minutes by boiling in water in a covered pan (to which I add a little salt), so that it is just soft enough to pass a baiting needle through it crosswise, through the kernel of each grain. During cooking I add sugar or sweetener at about 1lb of sugar (or equivalent) to 5lb of dry maize. Sweetener is nicer as it doesn't go as sticky and syrupy as sugar.

 

I then add neat liquid flavour to the just-covered-in-water, cooked maize. Strawberry & Scopex are great, but I have bought US imitation maple flavour ('Maplene' I think)and caught OK. Most US and Canadian supermarkets sell a huge range of cooking flavours, although I have found no need to try them (took own flavours in 1 litre bottles).

 

I add the flavour liberally - probably amounts to 5-10ml flavour per lb of bait.

 

This catches anywhere!

 

[ 10. February 2005, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Bruno Broughton ]